So Indiana may want Allen Griffin as an assistant coach

[kcsu]

That's just such small thinking. Sorry. I hope we do better than that.
We make I believe the third most income of any college basketball team.
An empty Dome earns no money.

Red will get the shot. He has earned it. JB has his mojo back and recruiting is on a major upswing. Red is the new Orange.

 

[SU94]

Stevens and Donovan were never going there, just like they are never coming here.
They wound up hiring an alum over the guy from Providence with the weird scalp condition.
How far away from that are we?

Exactly (outside of the Scalp dig, which is weak). As if we have some secret list? Understand, this is a desirable job and there will be moderately successful young coaches at other P5 schools that will want this job (Wojo is an example), but Wildhack is smart enough not to choose that route, which will be at least twice as costly and force an awkward cultural fit and potentially lose a third of the roster. And why would you when you can simply promote AA for a modest salary and then shepherds him through his first 2-3 years. (Again, this assumes Hopkins decides to remain at UW).

 

[Alsacs]

Exactly (outside of the Scalp dig, which is weak). As if we have some secret list? Understand, this is a desirable job and there will be moderately successful young coaches at other P5 schools that will want this job (Wojo is an example), but Wildhack is smart enough not to choose that route, which will be at least twice as costly and force an awkward cultural fit and potentially lose a third of the roster. And why would you when you can simply promote AA for a modest salary and then shepherds him through his first 2-3 years. (Again, this assumes Hopkins decides to remain at UW).

Wojo has as many NCAAT wins as Red Autry.
I don’t want our job to be given to some young and upper HC like in college football.
College basketball is more about the coaches ability to recruit and build relationships whereas in football location to talent basically gives you a recruiting advantage.

We will all know when Wildhack shows us what he has. I don’t buy into his hype and need to see it to believe it.

 

[Bayside44]

Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana and Arizona will pay more than Syracuse.
They have a lot larger athletic budgets.
Syracuse will pay to keep a guy but we wouldn’t spend what Ohio State did to get their guy from Butler.

Syracuse is a good job but we won’t pay what these schools have in hiring coaches.

Ohio State is a jaw-dropping type of place. We don't financially compete on that plain. It's like they're one of those Euro clubs owned by an oligarch.

 

[Bayside44]

If money is equal, I don’t know what would give those programs a leg up. Location might be the next biggest factor. We all know Central NY is nothing special, but I don’t hear about people flocking to any parts of Michigan or Ohio, or Indiana.

Columbus is the largest city in Ohio. And it's actually a pretty nice place. Not that it matters much but it's not some cow-town (I was expecting a cow-town).

 

[RF2044]

Exactly (outside of the Scalp dig, which is weak). As if we have some secret list? Understand, this is a desirable job and there will be moderately successful young coaches at other P5 schools that will want this job (Wojo is an example), but Wildhack is smart enough not to choose that route, which will be at least twice as costly and force an awkward cultural fit and potentially lose a third of the roster. And why would you when you can simply promote AA for a modest salary and then shepherds him through his first 2-3 years. (Again, this assumes Hopkins decides to remain at UW).

I'm thankful that our AD doesn't think as small or aim as low.

There is literally nothing in your post that isn't completely pulled out of thin air -- losing a third of the roster -- c'mon.

Luckily, Wildhack IS smart enough to do due dilligence rather than settle, and WILL conduct a full national search, and will used a specialized search firm to help compile and vet the list. Which is exactly what a program of our stature and station should do.

 

[SU94]

Columbus is the largest city in Ohio. And it's actually a pretty nice place. Not that it matters much but it's not some cow-town (I was expecting a cow-town).

Another good example: Ohio State. Top 10-12 program or thereabouts. They had an opening three years ago. They hired a dude from Garner Webb, who seems like a good looking HC to date, but he’s not exactly reminding me of Rick Pitino/Providence or John Calipari/UMass or John Beilein/Richmond.

 

[SU94]

I'm thankful that our AD doesn't think as small or aim as low.

There is literally nothing in your post that isn't completely pulled out of thin air -- losing a third of the roster -- c'mon.

Luckily, Wildhack IS smart enough to do due dilligence rather than settle, and WILL conduct a full national search, and will used a specialized search firm to help compile and vet the list. Which is exactly what a program of our stature and station should do.

I said “potentially.” And we “lost” 1/3 of our roster THIS offseason. That factor (let’s even say it it 1-2 guys) is mitigated by hiring AA. These will all be baked into the equation.

 

[RF2044]

I said “potentially.” And we “lost” 1/3 of our roster THIS offseason. That factor (let’s even say it it 1-2 guys) is mitigated by hiring AA. These will all be baked into the equation.

It's pretty clear to me that you have zero perspective on how these types of hires are made.. Thankfully, our AD does.

And you're focused on all of the wrong evaluative criteria.

 

[Alsacs]

Another good example: Ohio State. Top 10-12 program or thereabouts. They had an opening three years ago. They hired a dude from Garner Webb, who seems like a good looking HC to date, but he’s not exactly reminding me of Rick Pitino/Providence or John Calipari/UMass or John Beilein/Richmond.

Ohio State hired the Butler HC who was the guy after Brad Stevens.

Ohio State got a Butler alum to leave his alma mater for a big raise.

 

[SU94]

Ohio State hired the Butler HC who was the guy after Brad Stevens.

Ohio State got a Butler alum to leave his alma mater for a big raise.

True. I forgot he stopped off at Butler. And no one (not literally) knows his name because it isn’t terribly sexy. He got the gig at Butler only after Butler’s initial replacement left due to a medical condition.

So, we’re good with hiring an assistant off another guy’s coaching tree? If so, I say we look at our own.

 

[SU94]

Ohio State hired the Butler HC who was the guy after Brad Stevens.

Ohio State got a Butler alum to leave his alma mater for a big raise.

Actually, digging deeper, Holtmann is not a Butler alum (he played at something called Taylor Univ) and he did not replace Stevens either. In fact, he’s never served on the same staff as Stevens.

Holtmann was HC at Gardner-Webb and they won 11, 12 and 21 games in his three seasons there. If we hired a 2022 version of this guy, there’d be a revolt in CNY.

 

[SU94]

It's pretty clear to me that you have zero perspective on how these types of hires are made.. Thankfully, our AD does.

And you're focused on all of the wrong evaluative criteria.

Zero perspective on how these hires are made? Low blow, dude, just because you disagree (which is fine). And your theory about me is off base.

I do agree with you that our AD is strong and will do a good job with this opening. It will be his legacy piece. In fact, there is no other AD I’d rather spearhead that effort.

That said, and I have said it in the other posts, there isn’t some external White Knight (not Hopkins) sitting out there waiting for this opening. At least that I know of. What we’ve seen from Michigan, OSU and UCLA is equal parts telling and uninspiring. But, two years (?) is a long time, so who knows, right? Maybe the White Knight will step forward.

I did ask you for “your list” and have not seen anything.

 

[Cusefan69]

People may want to prepare a little for life post JB. I would not want to replace a legend. People should go back and look at their comments about Hop when he took over HC for Jim when he was out. It was his first time head coaching and a number of fans with that small sample size roasted him. Our fan base can have a lack of patience. If Red wants the HC seat at Syracuse he should really try and get some HC miles on his tires. I think a criteria our AD will have will be some HC experience. That said and I don’t know how but I could see JB doing a mid year retirement and giving Red a chance to show Wildhack his coaching chops, how he is as the face of the team, etc. That would help Red meet the ADs criteria be it a small sample.

 

[Alsacs]

People may want to prepare a little for life post JB. I would not want to replace a legend. People should go back and look at their comments about Hop when he took over HC for Jim when he was out. It was his first time head coaching and a number of fans with that small sample size roasted him. Our fan base can have a lack of patience. If Red wants the HC seat at Syracuse he should really try and get some HC miles on his tires. I think a criteria our AD will have will be some HC experience. That said and I don’t know how but I could see JB doing a mid year retirement and giving Red a chance to show Wildhack his coaching chops, how he is as the face of the team, etc. That would help Red meet the ADs criteria be it a small sample.

Red goes Siena next year goes 14-17 and our fanbase will want him hired?

No chance he is going anywhere before JB retires.
He is likely the top internal candidate.

Unless he knows he isn’t getting the job he should stay until JB retires.

 

[RF2044]

Zero perspective on how these hires are made? Low blow, dude, just because you disagree (which is fine). And your theory about me is off base.

I do agree with you that our AD is strong and will do a good job with this opening. It will be his legacy piece. In fact, there is no other AD I’d rather spearhead that effort.

That said, and I have said it in the other posts, there isn’t some external White Knight (not Hopkins) sitting out there waiting for this opening. At least that I know of. What we’ve seen from Michigan, OSU and UCLA is equal parts telling and uninspiring. But, two years (?) is a long time, so who knows, right? Maybe the White Knight will step forward.

I did ask you for “your list” and have not seen anything.

Because "my list" is irrelevant. What would "my list" have anything to do with the candidates who make the list generated by the search firm the AD will employ?

And apologies for any perceived low blows. Not my intent.

 

[SU94]

Because "my list" is irrelevant. What would "my list" have anything to do with the candidates who make the list generated by the search firm the AD will employ?

And apologies for any perceived low blows. Not my intent.

Not (I swear!) trying to counter you in every point, but is there an AD who needs advice on this hire LESS than Wildhack? I don’t know if he uses a search firm. Unless for some reason he thinks that NBA contacts are important or something similar.

He has relationships with every CBB HC and AD the last 25 years from his days at ESPN. With no exception

Search firms are vastly overrated. Little more than a pseudo insurance policy that one can point externally if a bad hire is made.

He may hire one. But I hope he trusts himself.

 

[RF2044]

Not (I swear!) trying to counter you in every point, but is there an AD who needs advice on this hire LESS than Wildhack? I don’t know if he uses a search firm. Unless for some reason he thinks that NBA contacts are important or something similar.

He has relationships with every CBB HC and AD the last 25 years from his days at ESPN. With no exception

Search firms are vastly overrated. Little more than a pseudo insurance policy that one can point externally if a bad hire is made.

He may hire one. But I hope he trusts himself.

They aren't overrated in this capacity. Wildhack [and any AD] would need the firm because what they do isn't just about helping identify candidates -- they also do a lot of vetting of interest behind the scenes, prior to that list taking shape.

So, just for example, let's just say that Wildhack targeted Billy Donovan [I'm not saying he will], but they are concerned that he might turn them down because he's in the NBA, paid more than SU wants to offer, etc. The search firm would have representatives who would have that conversation initially with Donovan, gauge whether there is mutual interest, and then proceed [or not] accordingly. It helps both sides save face. SU never formally offered or even had a conversation, so they aren't turned down -- and Donovan avoids unwanted distractions that might leak out in the press, or cause any professional embarrassment.

Again, based upon your post, not sure that you have a good grasp of their role. Wildhack isn't just going to bring them in to compile a list of names while he twittles his thumbs -- they are far more active in the process than that.

 

[Cusefan69]

Red goes Siena next year goes 14-17 and our fanbase will want him hired?

No chance he is going anywhere before JB retires.
He is likely the top internal candidate.

Unless he knows he isn’t getting the job he should stay until JB retires.

I didnt say 14 wins at Siena gets him hired and fans are good, that was you. If Red takes over as a HC somewhere and if he is successful our fanbase would probably support that and it likely checks the experience box that MAYBE Wildhack is looking for in that position. Don’t know. Maybe it isn’t a requirement.

Maybe Red sees 2022 lining up and wants to stay. Cool but if the AD wants HC experience in his candidates then Red misses the boat. I am sure it has happened but If I were Red, I would be trying to have lunch with the AD and seeing what Wildhack might be looking for in a future coach. If Wildhack indicates that it is possible to be entertained as a candidate without HC experience then perhaps he does stay on. Don’t know (shrugging). Just framing my opinion on the matter.

 

[SU94]

They aren't overrated in this capacity. Wildhack [and any AD] would need the firm because what they do isn't just about helping identify candidates -- they also do a lot of vetting of interest behind the scenes, prior to that list taking shape.

So, just for example, let's just say that Wildhack targeted Billy Donovan [I'm not saying he will], but they are concerned that he might turn them down because he's in the NBA, paid more than SU wants to offer, etc. The search firm would have representatives who would have that conversation initially with Donovan, gauge whether there is mutual interest, and then proceed [or not] accordingly. It helps both sides save face. SU never formally offered or even had a conversation, so they aren't turned down -- and Donovan avoids unwanted distractions that might leak out in the press, or cause any professional embarrassment.

Again, based upon your post, not sure that you have a good grasp of their role. Wildhack isn't just going to bring them in to compile a list of names while he twittles his thumbs -- they are far more active in the process than that.

Thanks again. And I do have an idea. More than you’re aware. Thanks for checking again though.

But the fact that there is a relationship there, well it goes a long way. Say Wildhack calls Billy. Says I am sure you read about Jim calling it a career. I just wanted to give you a confidential jingle and, by chance, see if you might want to talk more about this ...

Who is Billy (and any real candidate who knows John) more apt to “out” publicly (or leverage internally) when there is no interest? Wildhack, who is a friend and confidant after a decade+ of scheduling games on ESPN (yeah John, I really don’t want to play Gonzaga this year in December, thanks. My UF team is not ready for that challenge. Can you get me a date with someone like Temple or Illinois instead?), or some “anonymous” third party firm? Ask yourself that. Most guys owe Wildhack beers, if you know what I mean.

And if he wants to minimize leaks, there is no better way than to have the only list in your own vest pocket. Media aren’t dumb. They have sources at the search firms. That’s the quickest way to make the hire public and potentially let it spiral.

My overarching points are, while I do think Wildhack likely will hire a firm, he really does not need to. He’s well equipped to do this solo (in some level of cahoots with Chancellor Kent).

Search firms are biased and I think exist to cover weak/lazy AD’s asses and they make a crapload of bad lists that facilitate bad marriages.

 

[corpjet]

If money is equal, I don’t know what would give those programs a leg up. Location might be the next biggest factor. We all know Central NY is nothing special, but I don’t hear about people flocking to any parts of Michigan or Ohio, or Indiana.

Actually Columbus, Ohio is one of the fastest growing cities in the country and definitely has more jobs and such than upstate NY:

Columbus now one of the fastest growing cities in the United States

Columbus is now bigger than San Francisco, according to the Census Bureau. The city is growing quickly and the latest numbers released Thursday show the growth isn't slowing down. The Census Bureau released its list of the 15 fastest growing cities and Columbus was the only to make that list...

abc6onyourside.com

While I miss home of Upstate New York I dont miss the snow and the stupid high taxes. I support the Orange while living 11 hours away and will continue to do so, however New York is suffering from flocks of young and old leaving and Im not sure what will change that trend.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Cuse is the better program, but if your a weather guy Tuscon or Syracuse?

funny you should mention that as I'm buying a house in Tucson next Friday.

 

[Briancuse]

funny you should mention that as I'm buying a house in Tucson next Friday.

Alaska to Tuscon quite the climate jump.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Exactly (outside of the Scalp dig, which is weak). As if we have some secret list? Understand, this is a desirable job and there will be moderately successful young coaches at other P5 schools that will want this job (Wojo is an example), but Wildhack is smart enough not to choose that route, which will be at least twice as costly and force an awkward cultural fit and potentially lose a third of the roster. And why would you when you can simply promote AA for a modest salary and then shepherds him through his first 2-3 years. (Again, this assumes Hopkins decides to remain at UW).

If Hopkins makes deep runs at the dance there is no reason for him to leave. If he flames out on the dance floor we will not make him our number one priority. Therefore, Hopkins is not going to be our next coach.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Is it official?


I was obsessed with Allen Griffen as a kid huge fan. Wouldn’t have blamed him if he took top job there.

Griffen Laz and Otis were my mid 90s favorite players I LOVED them.