so, was that a foul on CJ on the last play?

[IthacaMatt]

This is exactly what I would compare it to.

I don't know why people are reluctant to call a spade a spade when there's a crazy no-call that benefits Syracuse. CJ committed an obvious foul. 30 seconds earlier, he was victimized by an obvious foul that went uncalled. Dion got hit hard on the arm on his dunk attempt. Fab got undercut on another lob. Joseph got called for a travel because his defender shoved him. There are dozens of blown calls - many of which are not difficult calls by any stretch - in all of these games. Officiating in college basketball is not good.

CJ grabbed him, but he traveled / was falling / made like an Italian soccer player, flopping to get a call - after the grab. If he played it straight, he might have gotten the call, but he was clearly looking to get bailed out by the ref, and they tend not to do that in the final seconds.

 

[Victory Lap]

He definitely had an arm around the dude, but I think they let it go because Smith (that's who it was, right?) was kinda flailing and falling on his own when CJ grabbed him.

Agreed, CJ's arm was apparently making contact with his lower back, but because he was falling back, CJ's arm didn't cause the ugly shot; if anything, it may have provided a little support.

 

[suhoops4life]

Just rewatched it again, pausing several times during the play. The falling back by Smith came about because of the Melo presence & trying to avoid getting the shot blocked. The CJ arm did make some contact, but not to the degree that it appeared to affect the shot or the fall. Looked similar to a great pass break up by a corner in football, with the arm touching the back of the receiver.

I think the refs were at the point where they would not call anything resembling a bail out. Clearly, Smith was falling backward on his own before CJ ever touched him with the arm. For a foul to have been called, CJ or Melo would've had to slap Smith on the arm or made contact with the body as the shot was being released.

 

[caw]

Just rewatched it again, pausing several times during the play. The falling back by Smith came about because of the Melo presence & trying to avoid getting the shot blocked. The CJ arm did make some contact, but not to the degree that it appeared to affect the shot or the fall. Looked similar to a great pass break up by a corner in football, with the arm touching the back of the receiver.

I think the refs were at the point where they would not call anything resembling a bail out. Clearly, Smith was falling backward on his own before CJ ever touched him with the arm. For a foul to have been called, CJ or Melo would've had to slap Smith on the arm or made contact with the body as the shot was being released.

There was no foul on the shot. The only debatable is prior to the shot, which wasn't enough at the end of the game to warrant one.

 

[HouseOfCuse]

I thought he got fouled seeing the replay but I thought there was a definite travel before that. Looked like Smith caught the ball made a fake pass shuffled his feet and then dribbled towards the hoop.

 

[AZOrange]

IMO, it was an obvious foul.

Almost as bad of a no-call as the cross body block Robinson laid on Pressey at the end of regulation in the KU/Mizzou game.

Robinson didnt come close to fouling pressey. The only thing Robinson fouled was the ball. He hurt that thing.

 

[OttoMets]

Robinson didnt come close to fouling pressey. The only thing Robinson fouled was the ball. He hurt that thing.

I think you and the rulebook have very different definitions of a foul. A player can't make full body contact with a shooter, regardless of whether or not he blocks the shot.

 

[AZOrange]

I think you and the rulebook have very different definitions of a foul. A player can't make full body contact with a shooter, regardless of whether or not he blocks the shot.

The notion that is a foul is absurd. Pressey jumped into Robinson.

 

[BuffOrange]

This is exactly what I would compare it to.

I don't know why people are reluctant to call a spade a spade when there's a crazy no-call that benefits Syracuse. CJ committed an obvious foul. 30 seconds earlier, he was victimized by an obvious foul that went uncalled. Dion got hit hard on the arm on his dunk attempt. Fab got undercut on another lob. Joseph got called for a travel because his defender shoved him. There are dozens of blown calls - many of which are not difficult calls by any stretch - in all of these games. Officiating in college basketball is not good.

Yup. I'm your standard biased fan I guess, though not to the irrational point where I blame the refs for every loss. I basically expect the home team to get ~65% of the marginal calls in college basketball; and haven't really felt like we've benefited from home cooking as much as other major programs over the years. In the aforementioned Mizzou-Kansas series the refs basically decided both games for the home team, which sadly is not all that unusual.

This is the 1st season I can remember where it seems the bad calls have actually favored us more often than not (more-so in the G'town game than the WVU one, where I don't think a goaltending call w/ 9sec's left changes the winning probability that much).

The no-call on Fair is certainly a legitimate gripe, particularly as Roscoe is a 70%+ FT shooter. Although I was a bit stunned that the Melo tip-in was scrutinized on sportscenter and the AP recap so much more than Drummond's on the possession before, which was as close to interference or worse. :noidea:

 

[OttoMets]

The notion that is a foul is absurd. Pressey jumped into Robinson.

He jumped before Robinson committed, which made it Pressey's space (unless Robinson had been planted). Robinson left his feet --> foul on the defender.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He jumped before Robinson committed, which made it Pressey's space (unless Robinson had been planted). Robinson left his feet --> foul on the defender.

I thought the contact came after the block, thus no advantage, thus no foul.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

 

[OttoMets]

I thought the contact came after the block, thus no advantage, thus no foul.

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I think the advantage is that one can block more shots with contact than could be blocked by avoiding contact. He couldn't have gotten that block without crushing the player on the follow-through. No different than when a team gets a 4-point play opportunity despite the fact that contact comes after the shot is released.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

Easy no call on C.J there, Smith traveled and started to fall back, C.J's hand had nothing to do with that .

If C.J fouled him then he got fouled the drive before, the officials were consistent the last few minutes, all you can ask for.

I for sure thought Fab had Offensive interference and though Drummond did the play before, both replays seemed to indicate otherwise, the highlight on sportscenter slows it down and it looks like Melo was ok. It also appeared on replay that drummond didn't touch the ball and Boatrights shot went it untouched.

 

[AZOrange]

He jumped before Robinson committed, which made it Pressey's space (unless Robinson had been planted). Robinson left his feet --> foul on the defender.

Huh? Robinson was in his space and went straight up and was crashed into by Pressey. Principle of Verticality. No foul. Not even close.

 

[OttoMets]

Huh? Robinson was in his space and went straight up and was crashed into by Pressey. Principle of Verticality. No foul. Not even close.

No one on this board mentions any principle of verticality when Fab or Baye goes straight up in his own space and gets crashed into. That's a defensive foul, every time.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think the advantage is that one can block more shots with contact than could be blocked by avoiding contact. He couldn't have gotten that block without crushing the player on the follow-through. No different than when a team gets a 4-point play opportunity despite the fact that contact comes after the shot is released.

Yes it is, IMO. The shot was already blocked before contact. On most jump shots, there is no blocked shot. In my mind there is a difference.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Yes it is, IMO. The shot was already blocked before contact. On most jump shots, there is no blocked shot. In my mind there is a difference.

In the NCAA, that is indeed a foul. The contact was with the body of the shooter and it is called at every other point of the game. In the NBA, if the block was clean then the body contact after the fact is not a foul. But there is NO denying that Robinson fouled the Mizzou player and should have been called for it. What's even more egregious is the phantom call on Taylor's drive to basket with time running out in OT. There was absolutely little if any contact on the drive ...

With that said, I thought the Mizzou players/coaches handled the tough calls very well postgame.

 

[All4SU]

Went back and looked at the last few minutes of the game in slow motion. The put-back by Drummond was on the cylinder. The put-back by Melo was also on the cylinder, but both Melo and Drummond had a hand on it, so I'm not sure what they should have called there. I just don't see a foul on the last shot. Melo was physical, but he wasn't shooting (yet), and there is no way you can call some bumping there. Fair did not foul him. Of course, I am biased, but that's the way I see it.

 

[All4SU]

In real time I thought it was.
It looked almost intentional and I kept waiting for a whistle and a couple of free throws.
But after looking at the replay 3 or 4 times...it was he right call.
The shooter bent over backwards trying to avoid Fab...he actually leaned into CJ.
And the block itself was clean.

+1. That was my take too.

 

[rrlbees]

Went back and looked at the last few minutes of the game in slow motion. The put-back by Drummond was on the cylinder. The put-back by Melo was also on the cylinder, but both Melo and Drummond had a hand on it, so I'm not sure what they should have called there. I just don't see a foul on the last shot. Melo was physical, but he wasn't shooting (yet), and there is no way you can call some bumping there. Fair did not foul him. Of course, I am biased, but that's the way I see it.

I did the same thing Sunday night using frame by frame slo mo with zoom on. What I got was;

1. Drummond - definitely goaltending
2. Melo - definitely NOT goaltending (use over head replay espn showed at the uconn 13.3 sec timeout). ball is a good inch off the cylinder.
3. CJ Fair - definitely a foul. as smith made his first move after receiving the ball (prior to the stumbling bumbling stuff) cj both kneed and bodied him to knock him off balance and came down across his arms.

 

[Marsh01]

I did the same thing Sunday night using frame by frame slo mo with zoom on. What I got was;

1. Drummond - definitely goaltending
2. Melo - definitely NOT goaltending (use over head replay espn showed at the uconn 13.3 sec timeout). ball is a good inch off the cylinder.
3. CJ Fair - definitely a foul. as smith made his first move after receiving the ball (prior to the stumbling bumbling stuff) cj both kneed and bodied him to knock him off balance and came down across his arms.

I agree. The overhead replay shows clear as day that it was not a goaltend by Melo. Fair fouled the hell out of his as well. At least twice. Lucky it was not called.

Thomas Robinson was a clear foul as well. I dont care if he had his space committed. He did not go up as vertical as it shows from the angle showing it from behind. You cant crash into a player and knock him to the floor after blocking a shot. I give the Mizzou kid credit for the type of move he made because I am sure he thought it would result in a foul. And the foul on Tyshown Taylor was a complete joke at the end. Ridiculous bail out call.

 

[BuffOrange]

I did the same thing Sunday night using frame by frame slo mo with zoom on. What I got was;

1. Drummond - definitely goaltending
2. Melo - definitely NOT goaltending (use over head replay espn showed at the uconn 13.3 sec timeout). ball is a good inch off the cylinder.
3. CJ Fair - definitely a foul. as smith made his first move after receiving the ball (prior to the stumbling bumbling stuff) cj both kneed and bodied him to knock him off balance and came down across his arms.

Agree on all 3. The overhead shot on sportscenter confirms the Melo play. Need to DVR the Drummond play but JFC espn never showed a single decent replay afaik either during the game or on any highlights.

 

[orangefan13]

1. If the ball is falling off the rim it is out of the cylinder and usually not called. If its in the cylinder like 1-2 of drummonds were (a high bouncing one in the second half had the same thing) then the defender has no chance to rebound it.

2. We were crapped on a few times right in front of Burr(not the other refs). Dions drive the lane and dunk he was absolutely mugged on the arm with no call. That was just pure alwowed cheating example number one.
Also go back and watch southerland get smacked on the arm on his layup burr is literally out of bounce standing 5 feet from him. Southerland was one step away from him and he didn't blow the whistle. And those are just examples.

I sometimes wish we would have a secotion where fans played animated gifs of us being fouled with no call after the games.
If I had the technology and computer IQ to do it I would do it for you. In my mind mind its as important as after game quotes. if somebody is up for the challenge go for it.

 

[OttoMets]

Thomas Robinson was a clear foul as well. I dont care if he had his space committed. He did not go up as vertical as it shows from the angle showing it from behind. You cant crash into a player and knock him to the floor after blocking a shot...

Wilbon and Bill Self shared this take tonight, also.