The Head Coach has been the issue since Day 1 | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

The Head Coach has been the issue since Day 1

I’m one of those longtime fans capable of objectivity.

Not sure why you would take peers’ public statements about one of their own at face value. What would you expect them to say? But maybe you’re one of ‘those people.’

Meanwhile, you haven’t actually contradicted the assertion that we had top three talent. “Decades of success” were appreciated, which is why it’s easy to contrast the current state of affairs. If they hadn’t been observed, do you think there would be much rationale or justification in ‘demanding’ better performance now?

I’m not a simple person. I have a great deal of mixed feelings about the program. Trying to paint me as singleminded (defending someone else’s position!) is really just a reflection of yourself.
If you have mixed feelings about the current state of the program, that’s fair. But if you are throwing cold water on the program historically/in the modern era of college basketball, I have to question your wisdom. Syracuse was a top 10 overall program in all of college basketball, over four+ decades from the early to mid 1970s til about 2016. Yes, we were below the blue bloods, but on par with the next top tier of schools like Louisville, UConn, Arizona, Michigan, and Michigan State. That’s indisputable, imo. JB was front and center to that success. And we had top talent because JB built the success despite his ly personality. His peers praise him because he was able to sustain that success for 40+ years, and they can attest personally at how impossible that can be to sustain over the long term. Only a handful of blue bloods have been able to do it. You’re entitled to your opinion but I believe all but the crankiest, most cynical Syracuse fans would disagree with you.
 
If you have mixed feelings about the current state of the program, that’s fair. But if you are throwing cold water on the program historically/in the modern era of college basketball, I have to question your wisdom. Syracuse was a top 10 overall program in all of college basketball, over four+ decades from the early to mid 1970s til about 2016. Yes, we were below the blue bloods, but on par with the next top tier of schools like Louisville, UConn, Arizona, Michigan, and Michigan State. That’s indisputable, imo. JB was front and center to that success. And we had top talent because JB built the success despite his ly personality. His peers praise him because he was able to sustain that success for 40+ years, and they can attest personally at how impossible that can be to sustain over the long term. Only a handful of blue bloods have been able to do it. You’re entitled to your opinion but I believe all but the crankiest, most cynical Syracuse fans would disagree with you.
Look anyone with any reasonable common sense knows Jim was a great coach and a sure fire Hall of Fame entry. I just have always wished he had not stayed past 2014, when he could have gone out on a high note.
 
If you have mixed feelings about the current state of the program, that’s fair. But if you are throwing cold water on the program historically/in the modern era of college basketball, I have to question your wisdom. Syracuse was a top 10 overall program in all of college basketball, over four+ decades from the early to mid 1970s til about 2016. Yes, we were below the blue bloods, but on par with the next top tier of schools like Louisville, UConn, Arizona, Michigan, and Michigan State. That’s indisputable, imo. JB was front and center to that success. And we had top talent because JB built the success despite his ly personality. His peers praise him because he was able to sustain that success for 40+ years, and they can attest personally at how impossible that can be to sustain over the long term. Only a handful of blue bloods have been able to do it. You’re entitled to your opinion but I believe all but the crankiest, most cynical Syracuse fans would disagree with you.
Disagree with what? I didn’t say anything that contradicts what you just wrote.

Seems like you’re conflating posts, and projecting some sort of negative skew to a very ambiguous phrase: “mixed feelings.”

Mixed means I’m not a JB hype man or cheerleader. It means I have watched every broadcast game (-1) since 1985 and have only shut the tv off once during a game. I attended the school for four years. Thats love and commitment to the program. Not sure what else I have to do, but you seem to require absolute fealty and a selfie of me fondling a JB bobblehead….
 
Every fan base has these complaints about their team from time to time. Over 40 years, there are going to be some players that don’t work as hard as others, that lack a motor. In general, JB’s teams played very hard. Y’all are having what’s called selective memory.
Thing is, it’s not just my memory. JB was questioned about it in press conferences, had the reputation amongst fans and the media for teams that didn’t reach “potential,” admitted a lack of effort/defensive commitment/defensive comprehension, and outright stated he didn’t give his players more plays because our players couldn’t remember more. Then you had him not participating in the first half of practices, choosing to ‘supervise’ from a catwalk[?]…. All of this stuff is available to refresh Your “selective memory.” Kinda crazy to call all of the above as being BS without even trying to contradict it….

Again, though, you’re erecting strawmen. No one has asserted that “in general” our players don’t play hard. Not sure why you are so desperate to deny what is known and to create bogus arguments. “In general,” we play hard. Are you good now? Print it, cut it out, tape it to the fridge.

You can also refer to a post I made yesterday-ish, where I disputed the assertions that our current players weren’t playing hard on defense….
 
This is the problem: "intensity", "playing soft". These are all red herrings... the issue on D is that he doesn't have a plan for when someone on his team gets beat by someone on the other team. Unfortunately in basketball this will happen more often than not, especially when playing teams with equal or better athletic talent. Coaching is having a plan for what happens when the man on the ball gets beaten and in year 3 WE STILL HAVE NO PLAN. That is inexcusable and in my opinion is a fireable offense.

Maybe I'm being naive, but do you think that part of the problem is that our coaches do not provide enough structure in the offseason?

Now, I'm not an expert at the rules of engagement, but it seems to me that in some sports, teams are using the offseason workouts to really do team work, not just individual development and pick-up games.

I believe that some teams have semi-organized summer programs where you can put in systems, so that you're ready to go when the official practices start.

If you're just starting your work as a team on Day One, I think you're already behind. Aren't sports year-round at the top levels?

It seems we have gotten better later in each of the last 2 seasons. Maybe other teams are doing in August what we're doing in October.
 
Maybe I'm being naive, but do you think that part of the problem is that our coaches do not provide enough structure in the offseason?

Now, I'm not an expert at the rules of engagement, but it seems to me that in some sports, teams are using the offseason workouts to really do team work, not just individual development and pick-up games.

I believe that some teams have semi-organized summer programs where you can put in systems, so that you're ready to go when the official practices start.

If you're just starting your work as a team on Day One, I think you're already behind. Aren't sports year-round at the top levels?

It seems we have gotten better later in each of the last 2 seasons. Maybe other teams are doing in August what we're doing in October.
I don't know enough about what goes on behind the scenes. But here is what I'll say... these guys are all career coaches, their assistants are all career coaches, their S&C guys are all career S&C guys. There isn't that much new under the sun when it comes to off court process so that stuff should be table stakes. If it's not then the coach should be fired plain and simple.

What I suspect is actually happening is several things that are happening because we have a first time HC who has been a career assistant coach for just about his whole career under a HoF HC who owned 100% of the strategy and was very rigid in his strategy:

1. Red has a vision for the team - play fast, put the other team under pressure, run lots of bodies at them, shoot lots of 3s. But I could get that same vision statement from chat-gpt. As a leader of an org, it is important to have a vision to motivate the team, attract new resources and investment to the team, get people excited about the team, etc... I'll give Red credit, he seems to have done a good job of this, or maybe people in Syracuse were so desperate for a change just not being JB was enough of a vision to generate new energy.

2. Unfortunately, as a leader having a vision is the easy and smallest part of the job. Having a strategy for how to execute the vision is the 2nd biggest part of the job and the hardest. This is also where someone new on the job is most likely to get exposed. I'll give you a personal example... I've been in adtech for 15+ years now and I've done it over and over. I took a new job in January in a completely new country... but the job transition was seamless because ads are ads and I was able to largely take the vision and strategy I've always had and tweak it to make it work here. I was able to do this because I've done it multiple times before under different circumstances and I had to speak to that in my interview process. Now with Red, there seems to have been minimal vetting done of what the vision was and the strategy to get it done. Now here we are... I see zero evidence that Red has any strategy for how to accomplish his vision. He is just trying stuff to see what sticks... this is year 3 and there is ZERO consistency in the way the team is structured or plays from year to year. The only consistency in fact is a complete lack of strategy.

3. Now comes the hardest part, executing the strategy on game day. What I think we are seeing is a complete failure in execution because the strategy is non existent. So to answer your question, I think the failure isn't lack of structure in the off season, it's that the players are just playing without any sort of execution plan. Or more likely whatever execution plan they are practicing is so basic that the second the execution comes up against friction it completely falls apart because it is just so surface level. I do believe Red has a vision and strategy but it's not layered enough because he hasn't had to do this before in his career. Every strategy and plan falls apart somewhat when the bullets start flying, good coaching is the ability for you and your players to react to that and we are completely missing that so far.

We missed having a true interview process after JB... maybe Red is a great interviewee and would have nailed the vision/strategy part of the process, we will never know. But we are paying the price because maybe a more experienced coach would have shown more than Red in the process. It feels like we are seeing the same issue on the football side this year where there is a great vision, but again the strategy is falling apart once it hits adversity. Given that the same dude hired both guys, maybe the problem is the hiring manager?

Anyways this post is way too long and rambling. My 2c.. if Red can't figure out the strategy part and how to get his players to execute it on game day he is done after this year. I don't think the same guy who hired Fran and Red and fell for “Orange is the new fast” should be the same guy who hires the next HC... or at least they need to pull outside people into the vetting process.
 
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Maybe I'm being naive, but do you think that part of the problem is that our coaches do not provide enough structure in the offseason?

Now, I'm not an expert at the rules of engagement, but it seems to me that in some sports, teams are using the offseason workouts to really do team work, not just individual development and pick-up games.

I believe that some teams have semi-organized summer programs where you can put in systems, so that you're ready to go when the official practices start.

If you're just starting your work as a team on Day One, I think you're already behind. Aren't sports year-round at the top levels?

It seems we have gotten better later in each of the last 2 seasons. Maybe other teams are doing in August what we're doing in October.
It’s probably a decade remove but I specifically remember another big name coach or 2 commenting on how if they had JBs teams in the 80s they would have won multiple titles. I cannot recall the name but seems like it was a Pitino/knight type. I’m not denigrating what they accomplished but there was a very real undertone that a good chunk of those teams should have won more. The later JB years were certainly “do more with less types”. Not being able to keep Fab eligible was a complete joke
 
It’s probably a decade remove but I specifically remember another big name coach or 2 commenting on how if they had JBs teams in the 80s they would have won multiple titles. I cannot recall the name but seems like it was a Pitino/knight type. I’m not denigrating what they accomplished but there was a very real undertone that a good chunk of those teams should have won more. The later JB years were certainly “do more with less types”. Not being able to keep Fab eligible was a complete joke

Indeed. I recall besides some in the national media, it bleeding into our local media as well, and the "JB was a great recruiter, but just an okay coach," or along those lines. Personally, I recalled fans utter this same type sentiment at games, local radio shows, etc. around that time as well.

For a while there, the infatuation of the Carrier Dome's crowd size, ESPN broadcasts, etc. influenced recruits as much, if not more, than JB's recruiting prowess, etc., however, bottom line is that he did land them. It wasn't until that amazing run to the Final Four in '87 where JB started getting more respect, etc. as a coach and that "monkey off his back" sentiment that had been swirling around. Especially, with Vitale yacking to the world how Dwayne Schintzius was going to eat Rony's lunch, and doubled down with that same take when we faced Frosh sensation, JR Reid in the Regional Final.
 
Indeed. I recall besides some in the national media, it bleeding into our local media as well, and the "JB was a great recruiter, but just an okay coach," or along those lines. Personally, I recalled fans utter this same type sentiment at games, local radio shows, etc. around that time as well.

For a while there, the infatuation of the Carrier Dome's crowd size, ESPN broadcasts, etc. influenced recruits as much, if not more, than JB's recruiting prowess, etc., however, bottom line is that he did land them. It wasn't until that amazing run to the Final Four in '87 where JB started getting more respect, etc. as a coach and that "monkey off his back" sentiment that had been swirling around. Especially, with Vitale yacking to the world how Dwayne Schintzius was going to eat Rony's lunch, and doubled down with that same take when we faced Frosh sensation, JR Reid in the Regional Final.
Again this really isn’t a JB comment just a juxtaposition of our current angst about ethic, effort etc of the team vs cuse historically. The 1988 team should have never lost. 89 either
 

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