So What Have We Learned from the MCW Incident?

[MyMeloMyMan]

Anything goes...

 

[baggerbob]

My only comment on this entire subject is for all the judges out here, Christ already has judged us all , keep in mind he asked all those who wanted to stone the adulteress he said" He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone". After they all left and she was the only one there he said " Go and sin no more". Its time for all of us at Christmas to start taking a look in the mirror and see our own reflection, of how we stack up. Sorry but the better then thou crowd always riles me up, and we all have come up short.

 

[midloviking]

What do you suggest the store do? Go through a court and police every time they catch a shoplifter. That's fine in theory and completely absurd in practice.

Seems like a good policy for the store. They made $500 and keep the merchandise. No money wasted on the legal system lessening everyone's tax burden. Win-win.

 

[llandz]

MCW does not have to "own up" to what he has done to us. You don't know that he didn't own up to his mother or to JB. He owes us nothing of the sort. If some other Sophmore at SU shoplifted at Lord and Taylor, and had the same option available as MCW, should that student have called the Post Standard and owned up to it in the newspaper? Or should that student come on our board and own up to it here? No. And neither should MCW. Any other sophmore probably would not even let their parents know. MCW is a student who plays basketball. He is not a huge public figure yet. He is becoming a public figure, but for now, is just an SU student who plays basketball. If he had an injury next week, and never played basketball again, no one would remember him in 5 years. When he becomes a public figure than maybe he will have to answer to his "public".
Actually funny story. One of the top students in our high school attended SU in the early 2000s. Her mother was President of the PTA, a teachers aid, and extremely involved in the school and community. So called child won awards for citizenship at graduation. So during her Sophmore year at SU, I read a story in the Daily Orange one day about how a group of 60 SU students were arrested in a bar for underage drinking and having fake ids. It listed the students, and there she was. About a month later, I was with her mother, and of all things we were talking about our younger sons in the same grade (seniors in hs) and about how someone got caught drinking and how we all know our kids drink. I mentioned seeing the story about her daughter getting arrested in Syracuse, and she had no idea what I was talking about. So here was a mother, who had a good kid, and knew all kids do some things, and did not know that her daughter had gotten arrested. Her reaction was...good, I hope they gave her a hard time, lol. So MCW has done more than most do. He spoke to his mother, and spoke to his coach right away.

 

[690West]

MCW does not have to "own up" to what he has done to us. You don't know that he didn't own up to his mother or to JB. He owes us nothing of the sort. If some other Sophmore at SU shoplifted at Lord and Taylor, and had the same option available as MCW, should that student have called the Post Standard and owned up to it in the newspaper? Or should that student come on our board and own up to it here? No. And neither should MCW. Any other sophmore probably would not even let their parents know. MCW is a student who plays basketball. He is not a huge public figure yet. He is becoming a public figure, but for now, is just an SU student who plays basketball. If he had an injury next week, and never played basketball again, no one would remember him in 5 years. When he becomes a public figure than maybe he will have to answer to his "public".
Actually funny story. One of the top students in our high school attended SU in the early 2000s. Her mother was President of the PTA, a teachers aid, and extremely involved in the school and community. So called child won awards for citizenship at graduation. So during her Sophmore year at SU, I read a story in the Daily Orange one day about how a group of 60 SU students were arrested in a bar for underage drinking and having fake ids. It listed the students, and there she was. About a month later, I was with her mother, and of all things we were talking about our younger sons in the same grade (seniors in hs) and about how someone got caught drinking and how we all know our kids drink. I mentioned seeing the story about her daughter getting arrested in Syracuse, and she had no idea what I was talking about. So here was a mother, who had a good kid, and knew all kids do some things, and did not know that her daughter had gotten arrested. Her reaction was...good, I hope they gave her a hard time, lol. So MCW has done more than most do. He spoke to his mother, and spoke to his coach right away.

FYI, she knew her daughter had been arrested but I get the gist of your message

 

[airforcecuse]

My only comment on this entire subject is for all the judges out here, Christ already has judged us all , keep in mind he asked all those who wanted to stone the adulteress he said" He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone". After they all left and she was the only one there he said " Go and sin no more". Its time for all of us at Christmas to start taking a look in the mirror and see our own reflection, of how we stack up. Sorry but the better then thou crowd always riles me up, and we all have come up short.

So true, this is why I love Romans 5:20: "Where the law abounds, sin abounds, but GRACE super-abounds." According to this verse, more grace is granted to the one who breaks the law. Wrap your mind(s) around that. Someone tell MCW that he's loved by God.

 

[Cuseregular]

I'm not seeking answers to this this question here, but I wonder how many of you... before the age of 21 ... ever did anything illegal, unlawful or dishonest. This would include, but not be limited to: underage drinking, cheating on a test or a homework assignment, using illegal drugs, speeding, violations of "junior license" restrictions (or whatever they are called today), violation of other vehicle laws, trespassing, non-consentual sex, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, and, yes, shoplifting.

I was a pretty geeky kid (and female, to boot), but I plead guilty to at least six of the above. And I've known many kids who've had charges (marijuana possession/growing, shoplifting, etc) removed from their records after six months of good behavior -- allowing them to go on to become lawyers, doctors, etc (professions that would have been difficult if they had criminal records).

Now, I ask, how many kids who are NOT public figures get detained for shoplifting at a mall, pay their "penalty" (I think "fine" is a misleading term), and move on --- without anyone else knowing about it? Many, according to a mall executive I know. Maybe some are children of your friends.

Did MCW do something wrong? Absolutely. Has he paid for it (both monetarily and in terms of public embarrassment)? Absolutely. But assuming it is not a pattern (and there is no reason to believe it is), I think some here are being a bit "too holier than thou."

Theres no question or doubt of much of what you say. Certainly most have had less than proud moments of the very type circumstances you mention and most get beyond the mistakes of our youth and move on with greater maturity and knowledge. Thankfully we're not defined by the errors of our young ways.

Similarly it would be unfair to fully and conclusively conclude that MCW does not have the potential to be a good kid based on one mistake and I might have not made that point clear in my earlier post, apologies if so. It's truly unfair to write off a kid based on one incident no doubt both back then and now for MCW.

That said this is a teaching institution we're talking about where ideals, values, ethics and good citizenship if not taught explicitly need be of importance and emphasized right there next to reading, writing and arthitmatic. Forget the holier than thou aspect for a second because that is really not material or important as that would suggest that MCW owes something like an apology to any of us personally in the world of fandom. He doesn't. It his own private thing to deal with personally within himself and amongst his parents and coaches.

But what changes the circumstances from being an unknown like all of us on here is in that he is a part of the very public face of a high profile athletic program within this purportedly educational institution and as a result it is up to the adults to protect the brand for the lack of a better phrase, and send the appropriate message both internally and externally that this type action and behavior is not acceptable from one of it's members. Both number one to send a general message that stealing is not a good idea and two that as a program they value good citizenship right up there with winning. God knows good messages are needed now in society to help guide youngsters through life with the right teachings.

IMHO since it's out there so publically now, it doesn't look good that this wasn't addressed at all in any official way and the result is it sends the wrong message that, at best, says misdeeds will not be addressed if you're lucky enough to have nuanced yourself out of the predicament, or at worse, may actually look like you're condoning it. Not asking for some draconian overreach with multigame punishment or anything like that, but rather something minor as I outlined elsewhere could have been done to send a message.

This could have been one of those rare impactful moment where the program could've made the small statement that it is not a win at all costs organization. Unfortunately that opportunity has been missed and it's too bad. Going forward we forfeit the right to be defensive when others have questions about the values of the program and it's mindset as to whether it's about winning and only winning.

So not only was it a bad move philosophically not to address it at all but it will have an impact, albeit in a minor way, on the brand that is Syracuse basketball giving ammunition to critics and naysayers. In the grand scheme of college transgressions that go on that we hear about every day, or with respect to life in general its not huge deal at all no doubt, but I'd preferred to have been able to hold up our program as perhaps better than most of the others.

We're not. We're in there with the rest. No better, no worse. No big deal, as I said above in the big picture but certainly it's a tad dissappointing having lost a teachable moment to the youth of our community (and nation for that matter) that would certainly benefit from such messages..

 

[samspann1]

Excellent post.

 

[Gotothehole]

We would eat are own young in this board. If a kid makes a mistake he is crucified. Who here has not done something stupid? He paid for It lesson learned. Let’s move on. #4 in country moving up. Let enjoy this season and leave the BS alone.

 

[SBU72]

What gets me a little is that many here bemoan how b-ball players get special treatment but then when one doesn't, get critical that the kid isn't given a special punishment! MCW's punishement was the same as 300-400 people per year get. Who knows if JB didn't "punish" MCW in some way. Extra laps/sprints/stair climbs? JB's team has alway been family and family situations are delt with behind closed doors / not made public. do you know how much his mother/father may have scolded him even if over just over the phone? Do you think his xmas break at home isn't going to be a little tense? He is young and adult approval/disapproval is usually still a big thing.

 

[tbonezone]

just to be clear nowhere in my above posts do i say that michael carter-williams owes me an apology. michael doesn't owe me anything ! but neither do i owe him my respect as a player or a person. that's earned and not just put on a credit card.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Isotoners > this thread

 

[rrlbees]

MCW's punishement was the same as 300-400 people per year get.

Those 300-400 people aren't D1 athletes on scholarship that have school/team rules and probably codes of conduct.

I steal, I'll lose my job. So I don't steal. I know there are consequences unrelated to the store. It's called accountability whether it is an athlete or someone with a job.

Athletes get suspended all the time for criminal and even non-criminal acts. Canisius suspended a kid for a half for missing curfew. Today, a college football team suspended 4 players for their bowl game for breaking team rules.

Others doing something wrong does not make it OK for someone else to do it. I've taught my kids that for years.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[DoctorBombay]

This thread:

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Do you use a ladder or some other means to get on and off that equine creature of yours?

Some people are sanctimonious hard-asses. Some of them voted for the guy who allowed our ambassador to be murdered, but want a pound of flesh from a kid maybe trying to take a $100.00 robe.
As a dad who did a dumb thing in college and whose son did a dumb thing in college, which were all handled privately without criminal or school sanctions, I say thank goodness for people with a bit of common sense.
For those of you so sanctimonious, I wish an IRS audit with a vengeance upon your houses, and may the full measure of the agency be brought to bear upon you.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Some people are sanctimonious hard-asses. Some of them voted for the guy who allowed our ambassador to be murdered, but want a pound of flesh from a kid maybe trying to take a $100.00 robe. We don't know the whole story. I am sure TGD does. Let's leave it to the people who have the facts to make the choices.
As a dad who did a dumb thing in college and whose son did a dumb thing in college, which were all handled privately without criminal or school sanctions, I say thank goodness for people with a bit of common sense. Doing a dumb, impulsive thing doesn't make you a bad person. You will know how good a person he is by where he is drafted.
For those of you so sanctimonious, I wish an IRS audit with a vengeance upon your houses, and may the full measure of the agency be brought to bear upon you. Not paying all of the taxes you owe is stealing."

 

[DoctorBombay]

Those 300-400 people aren't D1 athletes on scholarship that have school/team rules and probably codes of conduct.

I steal, I'll lose my job. So I don't steal. I know there are consequences unrelated to the store. It's called accountability whether it is an athlete or someone with a job.

Athletes get suspended all the time for criminal and even non-criminal acts. Canisius suspended a kid for a half for missing curfew. Today, a college football team suspended 4 players for their bowl game for breaking team rules.

Others doing something wrong does not make it OK for someone else to do it. I've taught my kids that for years.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I don't think or have yet to see anyone suggesting that what MCW did wasn't wrong.
The issue is whether the punishment fit the crime, and based on precedents set by the store/law/SU etc., it appears that he's not going to face any more consequences. From what we know so far, he received no favorable treatment, and paid the same penalty others have in his position. Was it enough...maybe, maybe not.
One can agree or disagree with that aspect of it without necessarily dismissing the act itself.

 

[Cuseregular]

Those 300-400 people aren't D1 athletes on scholarship that have school/team rules and probably codes of conduct.

I steal, I'll lose my job. So I don't steal. I know there are consequences unrelated to the store. It's called accountability whether it is an athlete or someone with a job.

Athletes get suspended all the time for criminal and even non-criminal acts. Canisius suspended a kid for a half for missing curfew. Today, a college football team suspended 4 players for their bowl game for breaking team rules.

Others doing something wrong does not make it OK for someone else to do it. I've taught my kids that for years.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

nice to see a voice of sanity and reason. You nailed it more concisely with the one word, "accountability" and reading what you wrote with other examples of it, it appears this program I follow struggles with that concept. See no evil, hear no evil...

http://syracusefan.com/threads/this-picture-of-jb.39172/

Classic Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing, nothing.....And to Bombay who didn't think he saw anyone saying it was ok tell him about that thread the other night where I was sparring with others who not only thought it was no big deal, but that if they could get away with it they'd do it too. Now that its out the way it is those posters have decided to go into hiding apparently.

 

[pearl31]

Some of them voted for the guy who allowed our ambassador to be murdered.

yeah, this really belongs here.
Oh Lord

 

[br801]

yeah, this really belongs here.
Oh Lord

Easy now. I always enjoy posts where someone injects their political views for no apparent reason.

 

[OttoMets]

The takeaway from a number of the posts on here: if you've done something bad, you have no business judging whether or not someone else has done something bad.

Beautiful.

No wonder society is in such lousy shape.

 

[OttoMets]

Theres no question or doubt of much of what you say. Certainly most have had less than proud moments of the very type circumstances you mention and most get beyond the mistakes of our youth and move on with greater maturity and knowledge. Thankfully we're not defined by the errors of our young ways.

Similarly it would be unfair to fully and conclusively conclude that MCW does not have the potential to be a good kid based on one mistake and I might have not made that point clear in my earlier post, apologies if so. It's truly unfair to write off a kid based on one incident no doubt both back then and now for MCW.

That said this is a teaching institution we're talking about where ideals, values, ethics and good citizenship if not taught explicitly need be of importance and emphasized right there next to reading, writing and arthitmatic. Forget the holier than thou aspect for a second because that is really not material or important as that would suggest that MCW owes something like an apology to any of us personally in the world of fandom. He doesn't. It his own private thing to deal with personally within himself and amongst his parents and coaches.

But what changes the circumstances from being an unknown like all of us on here is in that he is a part of the very public face of a high profile athletic program within this purportedly educational institution and as a result it is up to the adults to protect the brand for the lack of a better phrase, and send the appropriate message both internally and externally that this type action and behavior is not acceptable from one of it's members. Both number one to send a general message that stealing is not a good idea and two that as a program they value good citizenship right up there with winning. God knows good messages are needed now in society to help guide youngsters through life with the right teachings.

IMHO since it's out there so publically now, it doesn't look good that this wasn't addressed at all in any official way and the result is it sends the wrong message that misdeeds will not be addressed if you're lucky enough to have nuanced yourself out of the predictament. Not some draconian punishment multigame punishment but something minor as I outlined elsewhere could have been done.

This could have been one of those rare impactful moment where the program could've made the small statement that it is not a win at all costs organization. Unfortunately that opportunity has been missed and it's too bad. Going forward we forfeit the right to be defensive when others have questions about the values of the program and it's mindset as to whether it's about winning and only winning.

So not only was it a bad move philosophically not to address it at all but it will have an impact, albeit in a minor way, on the brand that is Syracuse basketball giving ammunition to critics and naysayers. In the grand scheme of college transgressions that go on that we hear about every day, or with respect to life in general its not huge deal at all no doubt, but I'd preferred to have been able to hold up our program as perhaps better than most of the others.

We're not. We're in there with the rest. No better, no worse. No big deal, as I said above in the big picture but certainly it's a tad dissappointing having lost a teachable moment to the youth of our community (and nation for that matter) that would certainly benefit from such messages..

At least someone gets it.

 

[Cuseregular]

The takeaway from a number of the posts on here: if you've done something bad, you have no business judging whether or not someone else has done something bad.

Beautiful.

No wonder society is in such lousy shape.

yep but watch out you'll now be referred to as "holier than thou". And worse yet, the other night in a thread thankfully deleted they (not one but a bunch) were saying that and worse that they would do it too they could get away with it. I kid you not.

Sad state my friend as "our side" with good common societal horse sense has lost the war. Just look at the number majority of the online comments to bud PS online article or at "likes" for the post you highlighted here by me, you or bees vs. the one for cto's.

 

[OttoMets]

yep but watch out you'll now be referred to as "holier than thou". And worse yet, the other night in a thread thankfully deleted they (not one but a bunch) were saying that and worse that they would do it too they could get away with it. I kid you not.

Sad state my friend as "our side" with good common societal horse sense has lost the war Just look at the number majority of the online comments to bud PS online article or at "likes" for the post you highlighted here by me vs. the one for cto's.

I saw about a dozen posts in the thread the other night. Sad stuff.

The accumulation of likes on here is disappointing, too. Reasoning based primarily on the tu quoque fallacy is alive and well around these parts.

Half the posters on here seem too happy to miss the point. (Talking about the point, of course, would come too close to criticizing Boeheim's character or the 21-year-old "young kid" of a point guard who decided to commit a crime and then lie about it.)

 

[dasher]

I'm not seeking answers to this this question here, but I wonder how many of you... before the age of 21 ... ever did anything illegal, unlawful or dishonest. This would include, but not be limited to: underage drinking, cheating on a test or a homework assignment, using illegal drugs, speeding, violations of "junior license" restrictions (or whatever they are called today), violation of other vehicle laws, trespassing, non-consentual sex, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, and, yes, shoplifting.

I was a pretty geeky kid (and female, to boot), but I plead guilty to at least six of the above. And I've known many kids who've had charges (marijuana possession/growing, shoplifting, etc) removed from their records after six months of good behavior -- allowing them to go on to become lawyers, doctors, etc (professions that would have been difficult if they had criminal records).

Now, I ask, how many kids who are NOT public figures get detained for shoplifting at a mall, pay their "penalty" (I think "fine" is a misleading term), and move on --- without anyone else knowing about it? Many, according to a mall executive I know. Maybe some are children of your friends.

Did MCW do something wrong? Absolutely. Has he paid for it (both monetarily and in terms of public embarrassment)? Absolutely. But assuming it is not a pattern (and there is no reason to believe it is), I think some here are being a bit "too holier than thou."

CTO, I love ya but we get these posts from you every year when one of our kids get caught doing something they shouldn't. It does not go on at other schools at the frequency it does here. And to echo someone else here, I doubt many people here have ever committed non consentual sex. Otherwise known as rape. Maybe we get the holier than thou posts because our coach doesn't take these things as seriously as we might like or as seriously as other coaches would. I am a great fan of Jb. I was at both his first win and his first loss. But he is way too lax with this stuff.