So What Have We Learned from the MCW Incident?

[Capt. Tuttle]

CTO, I love ya but we get these posts from you every year when one of our kids get caught doing something they shouldn't. It does not go on at other schools at the frequency it does here. And to echo someone else here, I doubt many people here have ever committed non consentual sex. Otherwise known as rape. Maybe we get the holier than thou posts because our coach doesn't take these things as seriously as we might like or as seriously as other coaches would. I am a great fan of Jb. I was at both his first win and his first loss. But he is way too lax with this stuff.

Really? It doesn't go on at other schools. There was a serial child molester at PSU

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[dollarbill44]

Really? It doesn't go on at other schools. There was a serial child molester at PSU

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[djcon57]

I just gave away my tickets for tonight as I just can't sit there in good conscious with my feelings on this.

if you are serious about this stance...you should give tickets away for good. In fact, Why even come to this board? Write a letter to Nancy Cantor. Cancel your tickets and write a letter explaining why. You going to games, watching games, buying merchandise, and posting 1000x times on this board only makes you a part of the "program". I respect your opinion and I even understand your opinion... but you guys need to own your stance. If this is the final straw, make it the final straw. Don't be outraged anonymously on a message board. Just stop going. Stop buying.

 

[dasher]

Really? It doesn't go on at other schools. There was a serial child molester at PSU

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Bad post. Of course there are crimes at other schools. Some much, much more serious than anything we have seen here. But we have issues every year. I don't believe every other school has that. Second, there is never ever any public discipline. I remember Joe B Hall suspending two players before a big national game against ND when I was in college. Think that sent a message to the kids?

 

[moqui]

This is lunacy, God forbid anyone makes a character judgement on a documented thief, especially one thats shown no sign of understanding theres something bad about that and a program that by doing nothing publically looks like they're condoning it. God forbid. Absolute insanity. And what's real lunacy is understanding we may be in the minority on this.

you have no idea what has been said and done behind the scenes. you have no idea whether JB publicly read him the riot act, forced him to run some extra drills, etc. We only see a little piece of the puzzle, only what the coach & player are willing to publicly display. We are like the proverbial blind men describing the elephant - our judgement of how this has been handled internally is almost certainly wrong.

MCW doesn't have to be locked up in the stocks in the public square to satisfy the unctuous moralism of the internet crowd.

he committed an offense and was sanctioned. period, end of story.

 

[Cuseregular]

if you are serious about this stance...you should give tickets away for good. In fact, Why even come to this board? Write a letter to Nancy Cantor. Cancel your tickets and write a letter explaining why. You going to games, watching games, buying merchandise, and posting 1000x times on this board only makes you a part of the "program". I respect your opinion and I even understand your opinion... but you guys need to own your stance. If this is the final straw, make it the final straw. Don't be outraged anonymously on a message board. Just stop going. Stop buying.

don't worry just gave them away to a very good cause, next two games too. Say hi to them at club 44 for me. They're psyched. Silver lining to this for me.

In a few weeks I'll be over this enough and can live with my hypocricy of being, once again, one of the sycophantic fans who just cant keep away from the program I follow, a program that once again shows me it's mostly about winning, and perhaps the rest be damned.

The remainder of what you write, while noble in theory, won't make a difference at all being just a small spoke in the wheel, not worth the time, effort or emotional angst for a petty theft issue (vs say a more serious concern). Too much family and friend fun at these events to bag it and like I said I can live with the complexity of the situation.

So dare I say, Go SU, just I won't be yelling it tonight.

 

[Cuseregular]

you have no idea what has been said and done behind the scenes. you have no idea whether JB publicly read him the riot act, forced him to run some extra drills, etc. We only see a little piece of the puzzle, only what the coach & player are willing to publicly display. We are like the proverbial blind men describing the elephant - our judgement of how this has been handled internally is almost certainly wrong.

MCW doesn't have to be locked up in the stocks in the public square to satisfy the unctuous moralism of the internet crowd.

he committed an offense and was sanctioned. period, end of story.

you're right, Moqui, what can I say. Just don't think there has been.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree with your point, but think that MCW needs to be sanctioned by his family, friends, team, JB, and SU, not berated by a host of media analysts or internet posters. He may have made a deal to keep the sanctions at a societal level rather than a legal one, but he'll feel the sting of his bad decision for a long time to come. The trash-talk from his peers on the court should be brutal, friends and foes alike. I think the posted judgments of random individuals may discourage others from similar behaviors, but he'll only really feel the rebuke of those closest to him. If the situation didn't result in criminal charges, isn't that the way it should be?

I agree with most of that, but the "criminal charges" thing is an arbitrary and somewhat misleading distinction. If he hadn't had a credit card, he'd have faced criminal charges. Should that have opened him up to reprobation? Team punishment?

Mike did a bad thing. Hopefully he doesn't do it again. Most of my disapproval lies with Boeheim's public conduct.

 

[OttoMets]

This is lunacy, God forbid anyone makes a character judgement on a documented thief, especially one thats shown no sign of understanding theres something bad about that and a program that by doing nothing publically looks like they're condoning it. God forbid. Absolute insanity. And what's real lunacy is understanding we may be in the minority on this.

I just gave away my tickets for tonight as I just can't sit there in good conscious with my feelings on this. Love JB the basketball coach and I get he feels thats all his role should be with his players, to not be a mentor/father figure teaching right and wrong like so many other coaches feel, but just cant sit there tonight. Which is unfortunate as I really wanted to celebrate JB the coach and all hes accomplished. I'll be back I'm sure in a couple games when this is all in the rear view mirror more and then will join in on celebrating JB the coach. Just cant do it tonight.

I hope we're not in the minority.

Boeheim's involvement clouds the judgment of a lot of people around here, though.

 

[OttoMets]

you have no idea what has been said and done behind the scenes. you have no idea whether JB publicly read him the riot act, forced him to run some extra drills, etc. We only see a little piece of the puzzle, only what the coach & player are willing to publicly display. We are like the proverbial blind men describing the elephant - our judgement of how this has been handled internally is almost certainly wrong.

MCW doesn't have to be locked up in the stocks in the public square to satisfy the unctuous moralism of the internet crowd.

he committed an offense and was sanctioned. period, end of story.

No he doesn't.

But we should all expect better from his coach than that dishonest crap he fed the Post-Standard. Misunderstanding? Hands tied?

It defies credulity that there are posters who accept that at face value. There's a reason some people take all of Boeheim's statements with a (large) grain of salt. There are too many instances of his saying things that are clearly inconsistent with facts.

 

[moqui]

No he doesn't.

But we should all expect better from his coach than that dishonest crap he fed the Post-Standard. Misunderstanding? Hands tied?

It defies credulity that there are posters who accept that at face value. There's a reason some people take all of Boeheim's statements with a (large) grain of salt. There are too many instances of his saying things that are clearly inconsistent with facts.

Even though I admire him greatly, I always take JB with a grain of salt. I know that he has baldly lied to the media in the past when it has suited him.

I just don't think this incident is worth getting all worked up about. It was incredibly stupid, yes, but I know that kind of stupid shjt goes on all the time, so I can't get to exercised about it. It was dealt with internally, by both the store and the team. If JB wants to keep that secret and feed the media a line of , I don't care. If it was a more serious offense, I would have a different reaction, but this is penny ante stuff.

 

[pearl31]

But we have issues every year. I don't believe every other school has that.

Bad post.
I believe most other schools do have issues every year.

 

[TinyManInside]

I'm not seeking answers to this this question here, but I wonder how many of you... before the age of 21 ... ever did anything illegal, unlawful or dishonest. This would include, but not be limited to: underage drinking, cheating on a test or a homework assignment, using illegal drugs, speeding, violations of "junior license" restrictions (or whatever they are called today), violation of other vehicle laws, trespassing, non-consentual sex, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, and, yes, shoplifting.

I was a pretty geeky kid (and female, to boot), but I plead guilty to at least six of the above. And I've known many kids who've had charges (marijuana possession/growing, shoplifting, etc) removed from their records after six months of good behavior -- allowing them to go on to become lawyers, doctors, etc (professions that would have been difficult if they had criminal records).

Now, I ask, how many kids who are NOT public figures get detained for shoplifting at a mall, pay their "penalty" (I think "fine" is a misleading term), and move on --- without anyone else knowing about it? Many, according to a mall executive I know. Maybe some are children of your friends.

Did MCW do something wrong? Absolutely. Has he paid for it (both monetarily and in terms of public embarrassment)? Absolutely. But assuming it is a pattern (and there is no reason to believe it is), I think some here are being a bit "too holier than thou."

Comparing my own personal behavior or that of my friends as college students is largely irrelevant in my opinion. None of us were public figures provided with $200k worth of scholarships - our bad behavior would never make the newspapers (unless it was on a truly grand scale), nor reflect directly on any prominent members of the university community. The fact of the matter is that athletes at universities with high profile athletic departments are held to a different standard, whether fair or not.

 

[dasher]

Bad post.
I believe most other schools do have issues every year.

I don't.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm not seeking answers to this this question here, but I wonder how many of you... before the age of 21 ... ever did anything illegal, unlawful or dishonest. This would include, but not be limited to: underage drinking, cheating on a test or a homework assignment, using illegal drugs, speeding, violations of "junior license" restrictions (or whatever they are called today), violation of other vehicle laws, trespassing, non-consentual sex, public intoxication, disorderly conduct, and, yes, shoplifting.

I was a pretty geeky kid (and female, to boot), but I plead guilty to at least six of the above. And I've known many kids who've had charges (marijuana possession/growing, shoplifting, etc) removed from their records after six months of good behavior -- allowing them to go on to become lawyers, doctors, etc (professions that would have been difficult if they had criminal records).

Now, I ask, how many kids who are NOT public figures get detained for shoplifting at a mall, pay their "penalty" (I think "fine" is a misleading term), and move on --- without anyone else knowing about it? Many, according to a mall executive I know. Maybe some are children of your friends.

Did MCW do something wrong? Absolutely. Has he paid for it (both monetarily and in terms of public embarrassment)? Absolutely. But assuming it is a pattern (and there is no reason to believe it is), I think some here are being a bit "too holier than thou."

I also don't believe this is a pattern. Taking a robe to the dressing room? That's one of the stupidest things I've heard before. He was asking for it.

I just want to know when we started expecting less from these kids. And now they see that things like this really aren't all that important to the coach. They are the faces of the university. We should expect more from them, yet year after year we keep getting less and less. It saddens me just a little.

And no, I'm not going to answer how many of the above I would plead guilty too.

 

[TinyManInside]

Really? It doesn't go on at other schools. There was a serial child molester at PSU

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The general perception, outside of the university 'family', is that things DO go on more often at SU than at most other schools (not saying I agree or disagree with this, just providing you some anecdotal feedback). I can say this with a level of certainty because during the time that I was covering SU's recruiting I went to about 50 different events over an 8 year period and spent a lot of time in the press rooms talking to many different recruiting analysts, sports reporters/writers (many of whom are well known by most people here), recruiting analysts for specific schools, and even general fans of various schools. I was often greeted with comments (sometimes snide, sometimes not) about the general behavior of SU hoopsters and in particular, the laissez-faire nature of the way JB would handle things. I do recall similar scrutiny on UConn's players' behavior and also Memphis's recruiting tactics (this was when Cal was at Memphis), but those were the only schools that had similar stigmas. I also distinctly recall a prominent recruiting analyst referring to SU as "UNLV East", which I thought was funny since Tark had been retired for close to a decade when this guy made the statement.

Please note that I'm not making a judgment here on how JB handles things, just providing you with some feedback on the perception from those who aren't avid followers of the program. I always found it interesting how SU is judged by people who don't follow the program the way we rabid fans do. Whether things go on more often at SU or not, I can't really say, but I can say that there was a perception among non-SU fans that they did.

Mason

 

[moqui]

The general perception, outside of the university 'family', is that things DO go on more often at SU than at most other schools (not saying I agree or disagree with this, just providing you some anecdotal feedback). I can say this with a level of certainty because during the time that I was covering SU's recruiting I went to about 50 different events over an 8 year period and spent a lot of time in the press rooms talking to many different recruiting analysts, sports reporters/writers (many of whom are well known by most people here), recruiting analysts for specific schools, and even general fans of various schools. I was often greeted with comments (sometimes snide, sometimes not) about the general behavior of SU hoopsters and in particular, the laissez-faire nature of the way JB would handle things. I do recall similar scrutiny on UConn's players' behavior and also Memphis's recruiting tactics (this was when Cal was at Memphis), but those were the only schools that had similar stigmas. I also distinctly recall a prominent recruiting analyst referring to SU as "UNLV East", which I thought was funny since Tark had been retired for close to a decade when this guy made the statement.

Please note that I'm not making a judgment here on how JB handles things, just providing you with some feedback on the perception from those who aren't avid followers of the program. I always found it interesting how SU is judged by people who don't follow the program the way we rabid fans do. Whether things go on more often at SU or not, I can't really say, but I can say that there was a perception among non-SU fans that they did.

Mason

I think there are two issues here, Mason:

first, I agree that JB runs a much looser program than just about everyone else in the nation. SU players definitely have more problems than other schools.

but second - this MCW incident is a tempest in a teapot. Syracuse is a podunk town and the P-S is a small town rag with nothing better to do than to churn through the chaff of the biggest thing in town. This is not Fab attacking his girlfriend or Devo punching a girl or Flynn leading a gang bang.

This kind of thing - small time, nickel and dime stupidity - this does occur at other programs, all over the country, all the time.

 

[CaliCuse]

I think there are two issues here, Mason:

first, I agree that JB runs a much looser program than just about everyone else in the nation. SU players definitely have more problems than other schools.

but second - this MCW incident is a tempest in a teapot. Syracuse is a podunk town and the P-S is a small town rag with nothing better to do than to churn through the chaff of the biggest thing in town. This is not Fab attacking his girlfriend or Devo punching a girl or Flynn leading a gang bang.

This kind of thing - small time, nickel and dime stupidity - this does occur at other programs, all over the country, all the time.

OK Syracuse isn'ta major urban center but its not as small in perception as you make it out to be. The city has a major league university that garners notion al attention at times. Whether its positive or negative is irrelevant to this post. T the paper for covering the individuals in the school is ridiculous.Anyone on any level at the school or as fans who believe they are above such scrutiny is laberdoodle nuts.Considering these kids are quazi professional having picked up at the minimum a $200,00.00 scholarship. If they take their education seriously and stay five years it bumps up to a cool quarter million dollar paycheck.Don't forget the $ that is attracted to the city with these university sports attractions/events.

 

[dollarbill44]

This is not ... Flynn leading a gang bang.

I didn't know this was illegal. Better to be leading one of these than following.

 

[moqui]

I didn't know this was illegal. Better to be leading one of these than following.

Syracuse Police investigated because the young lady claimed to have not given consent . . . it was a murky situation and the players managed to. . . get off (ahem)

but it was a lot more serious at the time than this thing is.

 

[dollarbill44]

Syracuse Police investigated because the young lady claimed to have not given consent . . . it was a murky situation and the players managed to. . . get off (ahem)

but it was a lot more serious at the time than this thing is.

Ah. I assumed there was consent. Clearly, non-consensual is NOT good.

 

[Col. Bleep]

don't worry just gave them away to a very good cause, next two games too. Say hi to them at club 44 for me. They're psyched. Silver lining to this for me.

In a few weeks I'll be over this enough and can live with my hypocricy of being, once again, one of the sycophantic fans who just cant keep away from the program I follow, a program that once again shows me it's mostly about winning, and perhaps the rest be damned.

The remainder of what you write, while noble in theory, won't make a difference at all being just a small spoke in the wheel, not worth the time, effort or emotional angst for a petty theft issue (vs say a more serious concern). Too much family and friend fun at these events to bag it and like I said I can live with the complexity of the situation.

So dare I say, Go SU, just I won't be yelling it tonight.

I'm with you...I know how you feel.
This incident - and even more so the way the coach has handled it - has really put a damper on my enthusiasm.

I'm embarrassed by the way it's been handled.
And I'm embarrassed that I'm still a fan who will have to live with his bit of hypocrisy.

It will be hard to cheer for MCW.
And impossible to cheer for Jim Boeheim.

 

[moqui]

It will be hard to cheer for MCW.
And impossible to cheer for Jim Boeheim.

this is quite overwrought, even for you

 

[djcon57]

And I'm embarrassed that I'm still a fan who will have to live with his bit of hypocrisy

But here's the great thing about the situation for you... you don't have to be embarrassed. There's the door. Just open and walk out. Nothing is keeping you here.
Maybe come back when JB walks away, I'm sure the scope of college athletics will be much cleaner when he's gone.

 

[orangefan13]

I'm with you...I know how you feel.
This incident - and even more so the way the coach has handled it - has really put a damper on my enthusiasm.

I'm embarrassed by the way it's been handled.
And I'm embarrassed that I'm still a fan who will have to live with his bit of hypocrisy.

It will be hard to cheer for MCW.
And impossible to cheer for Jim Boeheim.

Everyteam outside of maybe Duke and North Carolina shouldn't feel this way.
Think of all the teams that are dying for a national title (us included) but think of all the ones that haven't had one in the last 50 years. Some of the fans would kill for one. I know me and others on the board would as well.
One stupid attempted stealing isn't going to change that. I don't watch syracuse basketball just because they are syracuse basketball I watch because I want us to win it all not some crappy final four every year. Funny how final four is considered enough by some after 2003.
For me Championship or bust!

Did you feel the same way missing fab in march last year? If you could change it would he have been playing? He did things worse then MCW and I still love the guy. I love talent at syracuse not flawless kids. If you want a team of flawless kids not good enough to beat last years walkons then you should be following Holy Cross.