So what was up with that Kadary OOB call last night?

[OttoinGrotto]

I've never seen the ball be in bounds by several feet, and a player establish themselves in bounds by several feet, get called for being out of bounds.

 

[Consigliere]

Trying to find the rule on that, but I always thought if the receiving player establishes both feet in bounds before receiving the ball it is a legal play. Maybe different off of a dead ball, but our favorite play taking the ball out of bounds under our basket is to have the inbounder get an immediate pass and popping a corner three.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The official blew the call.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The official blew the call.

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

Yeah and unfortunately because it was not the last 2 minutes it was not reviewable. The announcers screwed it up because the clock malfunctioned at the same time.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The official blew the call.

Right? Kadary couldn't touch the ball if he was the last to possess it, went out of bounds and tried to gather it again after returning to the court. But that's not what happened.

 

[orangecuse]

Right? Kadary couldn't touch the ball if he was the last to possess it, went out of bounds and tried to gather it again after returning to the court. But that's not what happened.

Exactly. Quincy took the pass from Kadary, established possession, and then passed it back to him in bounds.

 

[sutomcat]

Yeah and unfortunately because it was not the last 2 minutes it was not reviewable. The announcers screwed it up because the clock malfunctioned at the same time.

I found this write up in a ref's forum.

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the
floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns
inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 did not
leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and
momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back
onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and
did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
7.1.1 SITUATION C: A1 blocks a pass near the sideline and the ball goes into
A1’s front court. A1’s momentum carries him/her out of bounds. He/she immediately
returns inbounds, secures control of the ball, dribbles, shoots, and scores.
RULING: Legal. (4-35-1a; 7-1-2; 9-3)
7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

As I read it, if Kadary saved the ball, went OB due to momentum, then went back in bounds and dribbled it, it would have been situation c, and technically a double dribble. If Quincy was the last to touch it, it was fine for Kadary to dribble with it after returning to the board. I assume the ref got confused. I think it was Teddy, who does not have a good reputation...

 

[Ghost]

My interpretation of the rule after listening to Corey Alexander goes like this:

• Kadary was falling out of bounds, as a result he couldn't save it to himself.

• He didn't. He passed it to Q. That's where the problems begin.

• Apparently, that's sorta like saving it to himself if he comes back inbounds. Had he stayed out of bounds he could have avoided this mess because if Q passed it back to him he would have just been out of bounds. Turnover.

• However, by coming back in bounds he made himself out of bounds again.

• So, Q, at this point cannot pass it to him because no matter where he is on the court, he remains out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds by someone else. If he was forced out of bounds, he could come back on the court, and be in bounds, but could not touch the ball and should go back one step and re-read the rules.

• Essentially, Q needed to pass it to someone else, let's say JG, who then, assuming Kadary had been back in bounds for a bit, could have received the ball again.

• Any touch prior to that was him still being out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds. In which case he was permanently inbounds?

 

[sutomcat]

My interpretation of the rule after listening to Corey Alexander goes like this:

• Kadary was falling out of bounds, as a result he couldn't save it to himself.

• He didn't. He passed it to Q. That's where the problems begin.

• Apparently, that's sorta like saving it to himself if he comes back inbounds. Had he stayed out of bounds he could have avoided this mess because if Q passed it back to him he would have just been out of bounds. Turnover.

• However, by coming back in bounds he made himself out of bounds again.

• So, Q, at this point cannot pass it to him because no matter where he is on the court, he remains out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds by someone else. If he was forced out of bounds, he could come back on the court, and be in bounds, but could not touch the ball and should go back one step and re-read the rules.

• Essentially, Q needed to pass it to someone else, let's say JG, who then, assuming Kadary had been back in bounds for a bit, could have received the ball again.

• Any touch prior to that was him still being out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds. In which case he was permanently inbounds?

I think you got it right. That is the gist of what Corey said.

But Corey Alexander does not know the rules.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

TV Teddy !!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My interpretation of the rule after listening to Corey Alexander goes like this:

• Kadary was falling out of bounds, as a result he couldn't save it to himself.

• He didn't. He passed it to Q. That's where the problems begin.

• Apparently, that's sorta like saving it to himself if he comes back inbounds. Had he stayed out of bounds he could have avoided this mess because if Q passed it back to him he would have just been out of bounds. Turnover.

• However, by coming back in bounds he made himself out of bounds again.

• So, Q, at this point cannot pass it to him because no matter where he is on the court, he remains out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds by someone else. If he was forced out of bounds, he could come back on the court, and be in bounds, but could not touch the ball and should go back one step and re-read the rules.

• Essentially, Q needed to pass it to someone else, let's say JG, who then, assuming Kadary had been back in bounds for a bit, could have received the ball again.

• Any touch prior to that was him still being out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds. In which case he was permanently inbounds?

This is some of your best work.

 

[Orangezoo]

My interpretation of the rule after listening to Corey Alexander goes like this:

• Kadary was falling out of bounds, as a result he couldn't save it to himself.

• He didn't. He passed it to Q. That's where the problems begin.

• Apparently, that's sorta like saving it to himself if he comes back inbounds. Had he stayed out of bounds he could have avoided this mess because if Q passed it back to him he would have just been out of bounds. Turnover.

• However, by coming back in bounds he made himself out of bounds again.

• So, Q, at this point cannot pass it to him because no matter where he is on the court, he remains out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds by someone else. If he was forced out of bounds, he could come back on the court, and be in bounds, but could not touch the ball and should go back one step and re-read the rules.

• Essentially, Q needed to pass it to someone else, let's say JG, who then, assuming Kadary had been back in bounds for a bit, could have received the ball again.

• Any touch prior to that was him still being out of bounds. Unless he was forced out of bounds. In which case he was permanently inbounds?

And Corey was wrong. He was right initially then changed his call and was wrong.

 

[Todd23]

This is the rule that was followed by the official. It was the correct call, as far as I know. I do have a problem with the wording of the rule, though. The way it is written, I interpret Guerrier as being the first to touch it. But the spirit of the rule is that Richmond was the "first" to touch it since he was next. I think the rule is meant to prevent someone from "hiding" out of bounds and then jumping back onto the court.

Section 3. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation. a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.

 

[Orangezoo]

This is the rule that was followed by the official. It was the correct call, as far as I know. I do have a problem with the wording of the rule, though. The way it is written, I interpret Guerrier as being the first to touch it. But the spirit of the rule is that Richmond was the "first" to touch it since he was next. I think the rule is meant to prevent someone from "hiding" out of bounds and then jumping back onto the court.

Section 3. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation. a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.

I believe the rule is applicable to an inbounds pass not the situation where it was received from Quincy yesterday.

 

[sutomcat]

This is the rule that was followed by the official. It was the correct call, as far as I know. I do have a problem with the wording of the rule, though. The way it is written, I interpret Guerrier as being the first to touch it. But the spirit of the rule is that Richmond was the "first" to touch it since he was next. I think the rule is meant to prevent someone from "hiding" out of bounds and then jumping back onto the court.

Section 3. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation. a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.

Do you think Kadary stepped out of bounds under his own volition? I don't have the play in front of me but my memory is that he was falling out of bounds. I don't think it was intentional at all.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Do you think Kadary stepped out of bounds under his own volition? I don't have the play in front of me but my memory is that he was falling out of bounds. I don't think it was intentional at all.

In this case, I think his own volition means he wasn't pushed or otherwise forced out of bounds by an opposing player obstructing his path.

 

[sufandu]

There's that famous play of Jordan's where he saves a ball to Pippen as he's falling OOB then gets it right back. Was it any different than that?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do you think Kadary stepped out of bounds under his own volition? I don't have the play in front of me but my memory is that he was falling out of bounds. I don't think it was intentional at all.

I thought he made the move to jump towards oob to open a passing lane.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I believe the rule is applicable to an inbounds pass not the situation where it was received from Quincy yesterday.

Rule 7-4.6.b, is exactly that - when a player goes out of bounds to inbound the ball after a made basket or goaltending.

 

[Orangezoo]

Rule 7-4.6.b, is exactly that - when a player goes out of bounds to inbound the ball after a made basket or goaltending.

If anything the call being right or wrong.. was warranted to even out the clock malfunction leaving them with 12 seconds to restart their offense. To me that should equate to getting time back on the shot clock.

 

[sufandu]

Is the NBA rule different?

 

[SU in Hershey]

There's that famous play of Jordan's where he saves a ball to Pippen as he's falling OOB then gets it right back. Was it any different than that?

Very different. Kadary isn’t Michael Jordan.
(But otherwise, it’s no different that I can see)

 

[longtimefan]

I wonder if the fact that the play occurred right in front of the (loudly lobbying) Miami bench made a difference.

 

[OrangeDW]

I was so baffled that I’m not even sure what they thought they were calling. Been around an awful lot of b-ball over the years. Not sure I’ve ever seen that call.