Some questions I have after game 4

[RF2044]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

 

[690West]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

And I think IIRC shrader got sacked when he went back in. Coaches can be irrational worry warts. It’s a weird trait that runs through their veins.

 

[mustacheovich]

More was suited up and nearly played, I think Bradford had to leave for a play and More sprinted out to replace him but then the quarter ended. I was happy to see Pena back, Adams is explosive, but has already muffed/nearly muffed multiple punts.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why didn't we immediately call timeout when we advanced the ball at the end of the first half?

 

[BVille44]

Pena appeared to suffer another ankle/knee injury after returning a punt in the second half.

 

[SUskibum]

If more is fully healthy and GTG then his presence on the sideline means that Bradford and Petry are playing well enough not to be distrupted. PFF grades do confirm this, so it's nice to know we have a 6th OL ready to if one of the starters has a hiccup or gets dinged.

 

[SUskibum]

Why didn't we immediately call timeout when we advanced the ball at the end of the first half?

Because Dino is better at math than we are

(I work as an actual Quant for a living, so I always smirk when he infers this)

 

[NJCuse97]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

I believe they put Shrader and Allen back in because after Army scored that frustrating TD, the coaches wanted a higher degree of assurance that we could get a first down and kill the clock/close out the game rather then another 3 and out like the one that lead to the score on the previous series. I felt for CDRW because it was Price and the line that stagnated the offense IMO.

 

[Eric15]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

I don't have answers for the first two, but in the moment after Army scored on that long pass play, I personally wanted Garrett back in the game just to be 100% sure we don't have a cold QB making any unforced errors. A 13-point game with 4 minutes left was a little too close for my blood. I stopped breathing when that onsides kick was casually rolling towards the sidelines with nobody around it.

 

[MadNY3]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

I hear you on two of those.

Pena, though, is the PR I have by far the most faith with. Working him back into a game situation pre-Clemson made sense to me if he’s ready.

 

[RF2044]

If more is fully healthy and GTG then his presence on the sideline means that Bradford and Petry are playing well enough not to be distrupted. PFF grades do confirm this, so it's nice to know we have a 6th OL ready to if one of the starters has a hiccup or gets dinged.

Agree about Bradford.

And if More is finally ready, then he can help mask the current lack of OL depth, because he's capable of filling in at two positions -- RG and RT. So he's a good utility depth piece.

Ilaoa C / G
Cruz G / T
More G / T

 

[AngryOtto]

I believe they put Shrader and Allen back in because after Army scored that frustrating TD, the coaches wanted a higher degree of assurance that we could get a first down and kill the clock/close out the game rather then another 3 and out like the one that lead to the score on the previous series. I felt for CDRW because it was Price and the line that stagnated the offense IMO.

I know they wanted to run clock but I do not understand not letting CDRW throw one pass. Could have been a screen, bubble with blockers. Did not need to be a deep pass. Get him a couple of reps passing.

 

[NJCuse97]

I know they wanted to run clock but I do not understand not letting CDRW throw one pass. Could have been a screen, bubble with blockers. Did not need to be a deep pass. Get him a couple of reps passing.

I’m right there with you. I wanted to see CDRW out there.

 

[upperdeck]

Pena might have been doing punts becuase adams was playing more WR than he is used to and you need to get Pena some reps too.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Ellis Insta’ed today, indicating that he’s close to returning too.

 

[Crusty]

Why didn't we immediately call timeout when we advanced the ball at the end of the first half?

Babers addressed that. He said he didn't want to give Army a chance to discuss their offensive set. He also said they would only get 2 plays regardless.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Babers addressed that. He said he didn't want to give Army a chance to discuss their offensive set. He also said they would only get 2 plays regardless.

Well, I think his priorities are dumb and wrong on this one, he made a bad choice, they absolutely could have had a chance at another play, and even though the second half performance and win obscures it, this is another clear strike against his clock management and decision making and we're lucky it didn't cost us.

 

[upperdeck]

you get 2 plays and with luck a 3rd but only if something quick happens. and we lost 1-3 secs by not calling the TO so not a big deal.

unlike the vikings who had 30 secs today on the goal line and snapped with under 15 and got 1 play off with it being a rushed pick

 

[upperdeck]

Well, I think his priorities are dumb and wrong on this one, he made a bad choice, they absolutely could have had a chance at another play, and even though the second half performance and win obscures it, this is another clear strike against his clock management and decision making and we're lucky it didn't cost us.

the throw has to be 15-20 yds down field, thats gonna take 5-7 secs..

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the throw has to be 15-20 yds down field, thats gonna take 5-7 secs..

5-7 seconds, you say?

Interesting.

See, just to be a real hambone about this I went back to the recording. When Alford is tackled after his 23 yard reception they stopped the clock at 23 seconds. The drive started with 29 seconds on the clock, so 6 seconds elapsed.

If we stop the clock with a timeout, assuming 5-7 seconds per play, we could have gotten an additional play, and that additional play at that spot on the field could matter. With another reception and timeout, we could set up a long field goal try (and I immediately reject any meathead football thinking like "BUTWUDDABOUTIFTHEYBLOCKITANDRUNITBACK") or just bomb it to the end zone.

Bottom line is we squandered a scoring chance. We kept hearing about how much taller and quicker our WRs were. That was the ideal situation to go to that matchup, but, nah, we'll let clock burn because we don't want them to see our offensive set, because actually that knowledge makes their DBs magically taller and faster and negates our advantage anyway. Can't have that.

 

[anomander]

Ellis Insta’ed today, indicating that he’s close to returning too.

Wonder how Babers/Farmer handle this. I would say rotate them in and rest Bradford/Petry. Our OL is playing good considering Wohlabaugh went down and missing these 2, but it can still be better.

I also get that Babers doesn’t like to rest starters so it will be interesting. I watched CFB every week from noon to midnight and i haven’t seen one team that only deploys 1 RB. Each team has if not 2, but regularly 3 guys who get snaps. I understand Allen is by far the best of the bunch (How don’t you have 3 game ready RB’s at this level?), but i wouldn’t mind seeing him get a play here and there to rest, especially after big plays. Hopefully this will be addressed in the portal.

Well, I think his priorities are dumb and wrong on this one, he made a bad choice, they absolutely could have had a chance at another play, and even though the second half performance and win obscures it, this is another clear strike against his clock management and decision making and we're lucky it didn't cost us.

I still think of that mid-season stretch in 2021 where we lost 3 straight games by, I believe a FG, and in each game there was a huge time management blunder that effected the outcome. For someone who prides himself on playing 3D chess you rarely see this many mishaps from a HC.

 

[upperdeck]

5-7 seconds, you say?

Interesting.

See, just to be a real hambone about this I went back to the recording. When Alford is tackled after his 23 yard reception they stopped the clock at 23 seconds. The drive started with 29 seconds on the clock, so 6 seconds elapsed.

If we stop the clock with a timeout, assuming 5-7 seconds per play, we could have gotten an additional play, and that additional play at that spot on the field could matter. With another reception and timeout, we could set up a long field goal try (and I immediately reject any meathead football thinking like "BUTWUDDABOUTIFTHEYBLOCKITANDRUNITBACK") or just bomb it to the end zone.

Bottom line is we squandered a scoring chance. We kept hearing about how much taller and quicker our WRs were. That was the ideal situation to go to that matchup, but, nah, we'll let clock burn because we don't want them to see our offensive set, because actually that knowledge makes their DBs magically taller and faster and negates our advantage anyway. Can't have that.

so when I said 6 secs I was right?

In fact we caught the ball with 23.. the clock stopped and we hiked it at 21..

Had we called the TO. Army kicks a fg..

But in any case the next play took 6 more secs.. so we lost 1-2 secs. by not calling a TO.

You can actually see Dino talking on the replay about how he expected to get 2 more plays.

If the catch is made and he doesnt get out and its not a first down who knows how it plays out

I would have called the TO

I also think Dino is right the Army probably plays the D different and we have to go underneath and they probably does lead to only 2 plays.

The best chance to get a explosive play was not letting them have time to change the D

reverse it and Alford catches throw 2 and we call the TO.. now we have 15 secs with a TO left..

call it first and we may not have a TO Left do do anything. with another play .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

so when I said 6 secs I was right?

In fact we caught the ball with 23.. the clock stopped and we hiked it at 21..

Had we called the TO. Army kicks a fg..

But in any case the next play took 6 more secs.. so we lost 1-2 secs. by not calling a TO.

You can actually see Dino talking on the replay about how he expected to get 2 more plays.

If the catch is made and he doesnt get out and its not a first down who knows how it plays out

I would have called the TO

I also think Dino is right the Army probably plays the D different and we have to go underneath and they probably does lead to only 2 plays.

The best chance to get a explosive play was not letting them have time to change the D

reverse it and Alford catches throw 2 and we call the TO.. now we have 15 secs with a TO left..

call it first and we may not have a TO Left do do anything. with another play .

We had multiple TOs. We could have stopped the clock multiple times. We had the entire field to work with that Army would have had to defend.

Dino is brutally bad at these situations and not only proves it on the field, reinforces it in the pressers.

Find a student in the dorms that's addicted to Madden to handle this stuff. It's a shockingly low bar, but we'd get better results.

 

[upperdeck]

We had multiple TOs. We could have stopped the clock multiple times. We had the entire field to work with that Army would have had to defend.

Dino is brutally bad at these situations and not only proves it on the field, reinforces it in the pressers.

Find a student in the dorms that's addicted to Madden to handle this stuff. It's a shockingly low bar, but we'd get better results.

I think Dino is just about the same as 95% of the coaches out there. There are far worse. Some like Sabban make the same dumb decisions but have players that cover for it.

and the Pros are no better..

We went coaches to use analytics and when they do people complain about that too.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think Dino is just about the same as 95% of the coaches out there. There are far worse.

Far worse at clock management?

Man, I don't know.

Dino's definitely not in the 95% on this one.