Some questions I have after game 4

[upperdeck]

Far worse at clock management?

Man, I don't know.

Dino's definitely not in the 95% on this one.

you dont watch enough other games then.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

you dont watch enough other games then.

Maybe not these days, but I used to, and I refuse to believe college coaches have gotten that collectively dumber at managing the clock such that Dino seems normal.

The reason why this pisses me off so much - IT'S NOT HARD. We immediately got the positive play we needed to make things interesting. CALL ONE OF YOUR MULTIPLE TIME OUTS (TIMES OUT?). We've seen before that if we don't hit on that pass we would just sit on the ball.

 

[sufandu]

• What the heck is going on with Joe More? Seems like his injury [it was reported prior to Colgate on this board that he twisted his ankle] must be far more serious than that, for him to miss all this time.

• Why did the coaches have Pena returning punts? Kid missed the first three games, and we've sustained injuries in the WR unit -- so why expose a kid coming off of injury to unnecessary hits? I get that he's been the KR / PR in the past, and that he was displaced by Adams due to injury. But seemed dumb to take a kid just getting back and put him in harm's way, especially when Adams had been doing fine.

• Why did the coaching staff bring Shrader back in at the end? I get it, they were frustrated by the defensive breakdown that gave Army an 80 yard score. But that had nothing to do with the offense. We need Shrader to be Superman to win upcoming games, so why risk injury by putting him back in a game that we had well in hand?

I don't think Dino liked that Adams basically had to dive to catch a punt he called fair catch for. I think Pena came in on the next punt.

 

[Scooch]

Maybe not these days, but I used to, and I refuse to believe college coaches have gotten that collectively dumber at managing the clock such that Dino seems normal.

The reason why this pisses me off so much - IT'S NOT HARD. We immediately got the positive play we needed to make things interesting. CALL ONE OF YOUR MULTIPLE TIME OUTS (TIMES OUT?). We've seen before that if we don't hit on that pass we would just sit on the ball.

Dino is terrible at clock management and his teams get an inordinate amount of penalties.

It’s been 8 seasons, these are just things that are.

 

[upperdeck]

let see just yesteday.

Both day and freeman played the end dumb

Dabo screwed his game up too.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We had multiple TOs. We could have stopped the clock multiple times. We had the entire field to work with that Army would have had to defend.

Dino is brutally bad at these situations and not only proves it on the field, reinforces it in the pressers.

Find a student in the dorms that's addicted to Madden to handle this stuff. It's a shockingly low bar, but we'd get better results.

The scary part is he defends it in the presser despite the fact that the explanation makes absolutely zero sense. Its hard to believe someone hasn't mentioned to him that his clock management is a major issue.

 

[kcsu]

The scary part is he defends it in the presser despite the fact that the explanation makes absolutely zero sense. Its hard to believe someone hasn't mentioned to him that his clock management is a major issue.

Im sure over the years he has been told more times than there are pages in Homer.
At this point we just have to hope it doesn't cost us any games as if doesn't have it down by now he isn't going to.

 

[Consigliere]

5-7 seconds, you say?

Interesting.

See, just to be a real hambone about this I went back to the recording. When Alford is tackled after his 23 yard reception they stopped the clock at 23 seconds. The drive started with 29 seconds on the clock, so 6 seconds elapsed.

If we stop the clock with a timeout, assuming 5-7 seconds per play, we could have gotten an additional play, and that additional play at that spot on the field could matter. With another reception and timeout, we could set up a long field goal try (and I immediately reject any meathead football thinking like "BUTWUDDABOUTIFTHEYBLOCKITANDRUNITBACK") or just bomb it to the end zone.

Bottom line is we squandered a scoring chance. We kept hearing about how much taller and quicker our WRs were. That was the ideal situation to go to that matchup, but, nah, we'll let clock burn because we don't want them to see our offensive set, because actually that knowledge makes their DBs magically taller and faster and negates our advantage anyway. Can't have that.

Of course, in retrospect that extra play would have been Army’s after the int and we might have found ourselves down two scores at the half.

 

[Consigliere]

Think More likely has a high ankle sprain. There was probably some debate about whether to hold him out completely or get him a few snaps prior to Clemson. Had we taken control of the game earlier as many expected I imagine he would have played some.

 

[Bayside44]

you dont watch enough other games then.

I stuck with the NFL game last night because I knew Josh McDaniels would do something stupid, and he did.

Yeah the clock thing is beyond a large lot of these guys.

 

[Cuse181]

We had multiple TOs. We could have stopped the clock multiple times. We had the entire field to work with that Army would have had to defend.

Dino is brutally bad at these situations and not only proves it on the field, reinforces it in the pressers.

Find a student in the dorms that's addicted to Madden to handle this stuff. It's a shockingly low bar, but we'd get better results.

This is why fan takes are ignored. People actually think this way.

 

[orangenauburn]

To me the questions that remain:
Why did the chicken cross the road?

How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood.

 

[AngryOtto]

Wonder how Babers/Farmer handle this. I would say rotate them in and rest Bradford/Petry. Our OL is playing good considering Wohlabaugh went down and missing these 2, but it can still be better.

I also get that Babers doesn’t like to rest starters so it will be interesting. I watched CFB every week from noon to midnight and i haven’t seen one team that only deploys 1 RB. Each team has if not 2, but regularly 3 guys who get snaps. I understand Allen is by far the best of the bunch (How don’t you have 3 game ready RB’s at this level?), but i wouldn’t mind seeing him get a play here and there to rest, especially after big plays. Hopefully this will be addressed in the portal.

I still think of that mid-season stretch in 2021 where we lost 3 straight games by, I believe a FG, and in each game there was a huge time management blunder that effected the outcome. For someone who prides himself on playing 3D chess you rarely see this many mishaps from a HC.

I do not understand DB only running one back for a majority of the snaps. LA is really good but it is a long season. We really do not know much about the other running backs besides price because they do not get game snaps. Remember Tucker started as the fourth rb until he got a chance. We do not know what the others could do if given a real opportunity.

 

[MikeSU02]

This is why fan takes are ignored. People actually think this way.

The Madden take is always an exaggeration, but what isn't is that there are high school kids doing data analysis work that can program something to tell you what to do.

The reality is a lot of these P5 coaches are still meatheads at heart (not saying Dino is). We give them way too much credit for certain things when it's not the case.

 

[Cuse181]

The Madden take is always an exaggeration, but what isn't is that there are high school kids doing data analysis work that can program something to tell you what to do.

The reality is a lot of these P5 coaches are still meatheads at heart (not saying Dino is). We give them way too much credit for certain things when it's not the case.

Everyone thought Bryson was a genius for “mathing” golf, yet he were are years later and he’s still only a slightly above average pro golfer. I’m not saying Dino doesn’t make bad decisions, but stats don’t play the game so there still need to be some credence given to the coaches or else why bother having them.

 

[MikeSU02]

Everyone thought Bryson was a genius for “mathing” golf, yet he were are years later and he’s still only a slightly above average pro golfer. I’m not saying Dino doesn’t make bad decisions, but stats don’t play the game so there still need to be some credence given to the coaches or else why bother having them.

Obviously you need coaches, but the reason why things don't change? It's because "it's always been done that way" until it hasn't. The resistance to change is pervasive through every organization, but especially sports.

I get that when it's your call and your livelihood on the line, it makes decision-making much harder than someone sitting with a beer at home. But on the flip side, things aren't as hard as they appear to be with the tools we have now.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The Madden take is always an exaggeration, but what isn't is that there are high school kids doing data analysis work that can program something to tell you what to do.

The reality is a lot of these P5 coaches are still meatheads at heart (not saying Dino is). We give them way too much credit for certain things when it's not the case.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Of course, in retrospect that extra play would have been Army’s after the int and we might have found ourselves down two scores at the half.

You can't justify wasting clock when you only have 29 seconds with "well if we screw this up we don't want to leave time for the opponent to do something."

It's just the wrong priority.

 

[TheHaze315]

Maybe not these days, but I used to, and I refuse to believe college coaches have gotten that collectively dumber at managing the clock such that Dino seems normal.

The reason why this pisses me off so much - IT'S NOT HARD. We immediately got the positive play we needed to make things interesting. CALL ONE OF YOUR MULTIPLE TIME OUTS (TIMES OUT?). We've seen before that if we don't hit on that pass we would just sit on the ball.

Yup, was talking about that with someone in the game thread as it happened. 23? seconds left, and you have 2 timeouts. What could you possibly be saving them for other than right then? Just a baffling move on all accounts.

 

[Cuse181]

Obviously you need coaches, but the reason why things don't change? It's because "it's always been done that way" until it hasn't. The resistance to change is pervasive through every organization, but especially sports.

I get that when it's your call and your livelihood on the line, it makes decision-making much harder than someone sitting with a beer at home. But on the flip side, things aren't as hard as they appear to be with the tools we have now.

Not only is it harder because it’s your livelihood, but we have the benefit of looking in hindsight, being the only opinion that we hear at the time and have the time to review and say “well the stats said this was right” without actually needing to defend that point to anyone. Like we can all say the stats say X but tons of other drivers factor into WHEN those stats say X or y.

These decisions are far more difficult then we make them seem.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Because Dino is better at math than we are

(I work as an actual Quant for a living, so I always smirk when he infers this)

Wait, we're using data now? What happened to total guesswork and rampant speculation?!

 

[721Comstock]

Yup, was talking about that with someone in the game thread as it happened. 23? seconds left, and you have 2 timeouts. What could you possibly be saving them for other than right then? Just a baffling move on all accounts.

AND - with a TO, they coulda instructed Shrader that, if there's nothing there
(there wasn't), then just throw it away quickly.
Stops the clock, only burns 6-7 seconds, and then you still have (at least) 2 more shots - AND with TO's to use!!! -
to advance the ball either to take a shot for a TD, or to get into FG range.

Turrible play on Garrett's part - still not sure if he horribly overthrew 87 (Dono), or was waaaay to the inside of Alford, but either way, we had 2 WR's being covered by FOUR ARMY DEFENDERS in that area.

Donovan was the more 'open' of the 2, but the ball was waaaaay over his head, and closer to Dame, so apparently Shredder was trying to give him a chance at a 50/50 ball, but with how poorly it was thrown, it was maybe a 10/90 ball, at best.

Just atrociously bad clock management AND game management there.

aka - consistently bad, and occasionally atrocious.

 

[upperdeck]

we talk about stuff like the OSU xp pt not happening..

wyoming.app st just this weekend went from a win to a loss with under 2 min to go.

 

[Cusefan69]

AND - with a TO, they coulda instructed Shrader that, if there's nothing there
(there wasn't), then just throw it away quickly.
Stops the clock, only burns 6-7 seconds, and then you still have (at least) 2 more shots - AND with TO's to use!!! -
to advance the ball either to take a shot for a TD, or to get into FG range.

Turrible play on Garrett's part - still not sure if he horribly overthrew 87 (Dono), or was waaaay to the inside of Alford, but either way, we had 2 WR's being covered by FOUR ARMY DEFENDERS in that area.

Donovan was the more 'open' of the 2, but the ball was waaaaay over his head, and closer to Dame, so apparently Shredder was trying to give him a chance at a 50/50 ball, but with how poorly it was thrown, it was maybe a 10/90 ball, at best.

Just atrociously bad clock management AND game management there.

aka - consistently bad, and occasionally atrocious.

Is there an active mic/ear piece in GS helmet? For some reason I thought Beck was constantly communicating with GS on the field.

 

[Consigliere]

You can't justify wasting clock when you only have 29 seconds with "well if we screw this up we don't want to leave time for the opponent to do something."

It's just the wrong priority.

Frankly 90%+ of coaches down seven, getting the ball to start the second half with 29 seconds left would take a knee there. Once we decided to attack, I was calling for a timeout there too, but if we had taken the timeout and then thrown the interception leading to an Army FG as the clock expired, the critics would be out clamoring that the chances of scoring in that situation was near zero for Cuse and Dino's game management is abyssmal.