Some Random Nuggets

[timkay99]

You're right we didn't have a breakout WR, didn't have a QB with any touch, didn't have an OL that could block very well so let's play a PRO STYLE offense which is designed for guys who can do all those things in the NFL. There's your stroke of genius! Brilliant I say!

And you somehow think the scheme was the problem for all these things the offense didn't have? There was going to be a magical scheme that makes below avg non-playmakers into potential All-Big East players?

Methinks you should be coaching somewhere instead of posting on a message board.

 

[kcsu]

Lets not give ourselves too much credit. I doubt that this board has any influence on the program. Read any other college sports board and it will be a mirror of ours. Some people love the coach. Others dont. Some players complain, Rumors ect... We should all be able to voice our opinions and share what we hear. Regardless of how important our information may seem in almost all cases it is old news for those on the inside and if it is actually new info and news worthy we can all bet that it will be public knowledge very soon. Those that want to censor this board against posting information have placed a tad too much importance on this site.

 

[kcsu]

Oh BS. This board has 1700 users of which 1/2 are lurkers. So that's maybe 2% of attendance and a minuscule percentage of the total fan base. This board has nothing to do with who the coaches are, who they recruit, where they recruit, the workouts, the game plan, the play calling, who plays, who doesn't play, in game decisions like kicking on 4th and inches, etc...nada, zero, zilch. And if you mean negativity in general, pfft about that too. Every single board has negativity when things go to hell in a hand basket and even more so with the better programs. If you think this board had a negative impact on the program, then in reverse, you and some others had a major negative impact on the program under GRob. I think I even remember you posting something similar under P that the internet was a part of the problem. It's like deja vue. You forget, many of the people on this board are the very people who shell out their hard earned money for the program, attend games both home and away, and support the program in many other ways.

 

[kcsu]

spot on Bees

 

[alphaorange]

"No you work with what you have and either make it work for you or you lose. We lost. If the players can't execute the offense you're serving then you take it back and serve up something else. You are basically describing the Grob philosophy but with a different offense. I'll just plug these square pegs into these round holes, gimmie just a sec, think i almost...hang on...nope. Didn't work.

You come up with an offense that your current players can execute. I saw Temple and FIU in bowl games this year. Where was SU?"

I can surely be wrong but I think a program has to have continuity. You can't keep changing your offensive and defensive philosophies based on your personnel. Some tweaking, maybe, but if you are trying to build a program, it seems to me that you have to put in what you are going to run and then get the players to run it. It is the coach's job to get the players and if he fails to do so, he will be out of a job. I can't think of a coach that changes the teams style on a yearly or semi-yearly basis with success. Look at the problems we had here with the offensive line switching in and out of zone blocking. It takes some time to build a consistent winner and staying the course is a prerequisite, imo.

 

[MadNY3]

This is board has had a negative impact on the program this year.

The board is an over amplification of how the program is faring on any given day.

Beat WVA and this place is thinking we are a top 15 team and are world beaters.

Frustratingly drop five games to end the years in the worst BCS conference and the board wants to fire the pee troughs at the Dome.

And if the coaching staff can't overcome the collective "negative impact" of our little Internet forum, then , we got the wrong guys.

Go Orange.

 

[OrangeMaNPD]

And you somehow think the scheme was the problem for all these things the offense didn't have? There was going to be a magical scheme that makes below avg non-playmakers into potential All-Big East players?

Methinks you should be coaching somewhere instead of posting on a message board.

I think his point was, with the players we have now, it was pretty clear this season that the offense we ran was not conducive to being able to execute consistently.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It played the way it had to play - control the ball, accumulate yardage and use the clock.

My, now that is a definitive statement that is ultimately unable to ever be proven.

I know I'm like some kind of board villain on the football side now or whatever, but people REALLY need to pay attention to how the narrative on the board changes over time. That statement sure is a far cry from the consensus that the offense was going to take such a large step forward that it would make up the expected decrease in performance on the defensive side of the ball. We've now hit the point where the explanation for the suck offense is that the offense played a sucky way because it just had to suck.

Yes, I know I'm mangling your words and no, I'm not sorry about it.

 

[boog7]

And you somehow think the scheme was the problem for all these things the offense didn't have? There was going to be a magical scheme that makes below avg non-playmakers into potential All-Big East players?

Methinks you should be coaching somewhere instead of posting on a message board.

I agree. I think there should be a petition started to have Pyle immediately replace Marrone as Head Coach b/c he obviously knows considerably more about college football than a nitwit like DM. Under Pyle's leadership, I am now convinced that Nassib would have beat out RG3 for the Heisman and would be battling Luck for the #1 spot in the draft.

If we move quickly, maybe we can have Pyle in place (and Marrone out) by the start of spring practice. BCS championship 2012 here we come!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think his point was, with the players we have now, it was pretty clear this season that the offense we ran was not conducive to being able to execute consistently.

And I would add, the pace at which we played it and the choice of formations that were made often worked to our detriment by giving the defense all the time to substitute and read the offense and bunching our players around the middle of the field made us very easy to defend.

Forget no huddle and spread formations, if we had just gotten to the line quicker and not had every player within 4 yards of each other on a lot of formations I think the offense could have been more productive.

 

[kcsu]

Agree with your post. Guys like JB live and die with their system. For JB it is zone all the way. Doug has chosen his O and he will live or die with it. At this point he will be playing with his own recruits so we will see.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

And I would add, the pace at which we played it and the choice of formations that were made often worked to our detriment by giving the defense all the time to substitute and read the offense and bunching our players around the middle of the field made us very easy to defend.

Forget no huddle and spread formations, if we had just gotten to the line quicker and not had every player within 4 yards of each other on a lot of formations I think the offense could have been more productive.

I agree with this 99%, the only remaining 1% hails from belief that our young/small defense needed rest, and perhaps that's where the delay offense came from. In the end though, if true, this is just another case of paranoia winning out over confidence in your squad. Any sort of offensive momentum throughout the year would have done wonders for the defensive side of the ball... much more so than trying to steal a couple extra minutes of rest between 3 & outs.

 

[Pyle]

And you somehow think the scheme was the problem for all these things the offense didn't have? There was going to be a magical scheme that makes below avg non-playmakers into potential All-Big East players?

Methinks you should be coaching somewhere instead of posting on a message board.

I think you're reaching a little. All-Big East? No. Capable of putting up more than 21 points against a bad FCS team then yes. Capable of winning more than 1 BE game? Yes. Capable of making a bowl game with this year's schedule? Yes. Capable of better than 84th overall in the nation? Yes.

 

[Pyle]

"No you work with what you have and either make it work for you or you lose. We lost. If the players can't execute the offense you're serving then you take it back and serve up something else. You are basically describing the Grob philosophy but with a different offense. I'll just plug these square pegs into these round holes, gimmie just a sec, think i almost...hang on...nope. Didn't work.

You come up with an offense that your current players can execute. I saw Temple and FIU in bowl games this year. Where was SU?"

I can surely be wrong but I think a program has to have continuity. You can't keep changing your offensive and defensive philosophies based on your personnel. Some tweaking, maybe, but if you are trying to build a program, it seems to me that you have to put in what you are going to run and then get the players to run it. It is the coach's job to get the players and if he fails to do so, he will be out of a job. I can't think of a coach that changes the teams style on a yearly or semi-yearly basis with success. Look at the problems we had here with the offensive line switching in and out of zone blocking. It takes some time to build a consistent winner and staying the course is a prerequisite, imo.

That's a pretty fair argument. I agree wholesale change from year to year is bad. I'm just tired of SU running Pro style offenses that don't attract the guys we say we need to run it.

 

[timkay99]

I think you're reaching a little. All-Big East? No. Capable of putting up more than 21 points against a bad FCS team then yes. Capable of winning more than 1 BE game? Yes. Capable of making a bowl game with this year's schedule? Yes. Capable of better than 84th overall in the nation? Yes.

I was just going based off your evaluation of our talent.

You said we didn't have a breakout WR. Hard to have a gd passing game without a quality WR.

You said we didn't have a QB with any touch. Hard to throw anything but deep passes with that QB.

You said we didn't have a OL that could block very well. Hard to run any plays for that type of problem.

What was the one thing you didn't touch on? RB. So, utilize an offense built around a RB. Then, b/c you have to pass, what is the best way to do that? Play-action to get your OL into better position and WR more time to get open.

So, what scheme should this team have run? A QB without touch can't run a spread (not to mention without speed). A team without a breakout WR can't really go 5 wide then can they? An OL that can't block then can't be 5-wide and facing blitzes if WR's don't get open.

That is why I think you have to transition to coaching. You can't run a spread. You say that the current system of running and play-actions (combined with short passes) isn't the way to go. You are going to find something revolutionary.

That, or your opinion of our offensive players is wrong...

 

[Pyle]

Yes it is hard to have a good passing game without a breakout WR so what do we do? Pass more times in 1 season than ever before.

Nassib also can't throw deep balls. Perhaps he's not the answer.

OL issues can be masked by running deception and option style plays.

Play Action only works when the opposing defenses believe the run is a legitimate threat. And our running game was average at best. Not to mention PA also requires the ability to throw the ball accurately and with touch.

Yes you can run a spread without a breakout WR, the idea is to spread the defense making the running game easier. Yes some spreads are heavily based on passing. Others, like WV with White and Slaton was almost exclusively the opposite. I understand we don't have those two guys on our team, but I'm not asking for 40+ points a game either. Kinder and Bailey could have run a very good offense based on deception and option. At least better than the bottom 2/3rds of the country.

 

[kcsu]

Poor coaching plus average players equals - 5 in a row

 

[timkay99]

Yes you can run a spread without a breakout WR, the idea is to spread the defense making the running game easier. Yes some spreads are heavily based on passing. Others, like WV with White and Slaton was almost exclusively the opposite. I understand we don't have those two guys on our team, but I'm not asking for 40+ points a game either. Kinder and Bailey could have run a very good offense based on deception and option. At least better than the bottom 2/3rds of the country.

An honest question Pyle:

Do you think Michigan in 08 had more talent on offense then Syracuse in 11?

Because, that spread couldn't do a thing with a line recruited to block pro-style (which is what this line was taught to do), a QB designed for a pro-style and an overall offense designed for a pro-style.

And that is the key. The OL defines if the offense will be successful. You can have a successful offense with an average OL. IMO, you can't have a successful offense with a bad OL. That is why next year is a big year, b/c if Marrone's own recruited high school OL don't show better semblance of blocking, then Syracuse is in big trouble.

 

[rrlbees]

I think you're reaching a little. All-Big East? No.

With all this back and forth about the offense, it's amazing we had the most All BE performers on offense. Our #1 WR, our TE, or RB and 2 OL. While our QB didn't make All BE, he is arguably, by any standard of measure, middle of the pack in the BE or better. So what went wrong?

 

[kcsu]

Gee i wonder. Must have been a lack of players...

 

[GoSU96]

Oh BS. This board has 1700 users of which 1/2 are lurkers. So that's maybe 2% of attendance and a minuscule percentage of the total fan base. This board has nothing to do with who the coaches are, who they recruit, where they recruit, the workouts, the game plan, the play calling, who plays, who doesn't play, in game decisions like kicking on 4th and inches, etc...nada, zero, zilch. And if you mean negativity in general, pfft about that too. Every single board has negativity when things go to hell in a hand basket and even more so with the better programs. If you think this board had a negative impact on the program, then in reverse, you and some others had a major negative impact on the program under GRob. I think I even remember you posting something similar under P that the internet was a part of the problem. It's like deja vue. You forget, many of the people on this board are the very people who shell out their hard earned money for the program, attend games both home and away, and support the program in many other ways.

Don't belive me if you don't want to, but it's not BS.

 

[Scooch]

If comments from anonymous schlubs had anything to do with this team collapsing like a deck of cards in a hurricane then let's just be clear: this program is -ed.

 

[rrlbees]

Don't belive me if you don't want to, but it's not BS.

Well, maybe if the board tries harder next year we can get ourselves a bowl game.

 

[orangenauburn]

Well, maybe if the board tries harder next year we can get ourselves a bowl game.

and a top 25 recruiting class

 

[SeeMore Glass]

Well, maybe if the board tries harder next year we can get ourselves a bowl game.

Clearly you have failed to understand the impact that a forum like this can have on a D1 football team comprised of coaches, grad assistants and trainers who devote themselves to the improvement of the program and who have daily contact with players who, themselves, are devoted to making themselves and the team better...even if some of them would rather not play in a crappy bowl game. Beyond what gets written here, however, I believe the hidden message is that the program's success depends even more crucially on the thoughts of the board's contributors. Whenever anyone here internally questions a play or a timeout or, heaven forbid, the game plan or personnel usage, whenever anyone silently wonders what the qualifications of the OC/QB/TE coach might be or what sense it makes not to have a coach dedicated to special teams, the effect on the team is devastating. There is only one solution. Think lovely thoughts...Think lovely thoughts...Think lovely thoughts.