Some thoughts going into camp | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Some thoughts going into camp

RF2044

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I'm kind of confused over the Cruz hype.

He's our tailgate guy. Cool.

He was a decently rated croot. Cool.

But I don't feel like we've actually heard a lot about him from the staff, and certainly haven't seen him.

Yet his name comes up by fans on the board as a guy that could push for snaps, or maybe even bump an experienced guy.

What am I missing? Is something real there, or is this just fan hype?


Some hype, but possibly deserved because he was the highest rated OL recruit we've landed in awhile.
 

GoSU96

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I'm kind of confused over the Cruz hype.

He's our tailgate guy. Cool.

He was a decently rated croot. Cool.

But I don't feel like we've actually heard a lot about him from the staff, and certainly haven't seen him.

Yet his name comes up by fans on the board as a guy that could push for snaps, or maybe even bump an experienced guy.

What am I missing? Is something real there, or is this just fan hype?
He looked good in the spring game against the twos and threes, that’s about it.

I’m with you, I think he’s solidly on the 2nd unit, not sure he’s the first tackle off the bench. If he jumps Bradford and Tisdale, that’s great because that would be more winning the job then finding the least worse body to throw in there at this point.
 

Cuse'91

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Bergeron specifically mentioned him (and only him) in yesterday's interview, as well.
Also, E. Cruz put in the work during the off season to gain the weight needed to see the field. Yes, we have 16 or 17 O-linemen, but a lot of them are stuck at 270-280lbs. Just don't think that flys in the ACC.
 

RF2044

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Vet played 341 snaps at RT last year, 118 at C and 10 at LT. He graded fine at RT and overall graded higher than Servais, Davis, Ellis, Illoa, and Tisdale. And wasn’t that far behind Bleich. Berg was well ahead of all of them obviously.

"Fine" might not be what it takes for the OL to take the next step. I'm aware of the ratings [which you diligently posted last year].

My concern is that Vett is more of a swiss army knife better suited to the second unit, where his ability to play multiple positions is an asset, than a true RT. I'm also not sure whether "fine" is "good enough" for the line to optimize it's potential. Three years ago, he was a revolving door at LT. His responsibilities at RT are a little different, and he showed improvement last year as you point out.

But we'll see. I certainly agree that he's the most experienced candidate to play there. But like Tisdale, he makes me nervous playing tackle. Would love to see Bradford, Cruz, Red, Magnuson, etc. make a move to challenge for PT. Right Tackle is the OL spot that worries me the most.
 

TheCusian

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"Fine" might not be what it takes for the OL to take the next step. I'm aware of the ratings [which you diligently posted last year].

My concern is that Vett is more of a swiss army knife better suited to the second unit, where his ability to play multiple positions is an asset, than a true RT. I'm also not sure whether "fine" is "good enough" for the line to optimize it's potential. Three years ago, he was a revolving door at LT. His responsibilities at RT are a little different, and he showed improvement last year as you point out.

But we'll see. I certainly agree that he's the most experienced candidate to play there. But like Tisdale, he makes me nervous playing tackle. Would love to see Bradford, Cruz, Red, Magnuson, etc. make a move to challenge for PT. Right Tackle is the OL spot that worries me the most.
Think your underselling those ratings a bit. He graded well enough to be the starter in pencil, IMO. If someone grabs the spot, good. If not, fine will have to be good enough.
 

rrlbees

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"Fine" might not be what it takes for the OL to take the next step. I'm aware of the ratings [which you diligently posted last year].

My concern is that Vett is more of a swiss army knife better suited to the second unit, where his ability to play multiple positions is an asset, than a true RT. I'm also not sure whether "fine" is "good enough" for the line to optimize it's potential. Three years ago, he was a revolving door at LT. His responsibilities at RT are a little different, and he showed improvement last year as you point out.

But we'll see. I certainly agree that he's the most experienced candidate to play there. But like Tisdale, he makes me nervous playing tackle. Would love to see Bradford, Cruz, Red, Magnuson, etc. make a move to challenge for PT. Right Tackle is the OL spot that worries me the most.

Well if you’re gonna worry about Vet and RT you should probably worry about a couple other spots that didn’t perform as well as Vett. Like both guard spots and maybe even C since Bleich is coming off injuries and surgery and never played C (that I know of).
 

RF2044

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Well if you’re gonna worry about Vet and RT you should probably worry about a couple other spots that didn’t perform as well as Vett. Like both guard spots and maybe even C since Bleich is coming off injuries and surgery and never played C (that I know of).

I made a post earlier today in another thread about how important it will be for Bleich / Davis to avoid injuries this season, so no argument there. And Bleich at C is a question mark -- but it isn't unusual for interior OL to cross-train between G and C, and with Schmidt overseeing this transition, I trust that it will work.

I'm more worried about Ellis's weight than I am about his performance from last year, when he was a true frosh. If it doesn't hinder him, the I expect him to be markedly improved with a season of starting experience under his belt, to build upon.

Bergeron is a pro prospect in my mind. So, not worried about him at all.

So beyond Bleich / Davis staying healthy, what couple of other spots should I worry about?

I'm not attacking the kid -- just not convinced that Vett is a plus caliber starter, like a Koda Martin [for example] was at RT. Him being in the starting lineup at RT might be more of a black mark against some of the other pieces in the pipeline than it is about him. Will be happy if he proves me wrong, but the line has been problematic for a long time. Substantial improvement was shown last year, due to Schmidt. But it remains to be seen whether Vett is the missing piece at RT. Him running with the #1's is a sign that those concerns might be unfounded, but I want to see it unfold on the field before I'll stop being concerned about the quality of play to expect at RT.
 
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RF2044

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Think your underselling those ratings a bit. He graded well enough to be the starter in pencil, IMO. If someone grabs the spot, good. If not, fine will have to be good enough.

I'm not underselling them -- at all. I love PFF, and I appreciated Bees posting those ratings after games, and some of the coaches on the board breaking down what the results meant, since OL play isn't the easiest to gauge, since that isn't what most people are focused on while watching a game.

I'm hoping that the subpar offensive line play we had to endure post-Dungey is behind us, that Schmidt has righted the ship, and that we now have improved depth which will make for better overall performance and the ability for an injury not to derail the quality of OL play.

And I'm not piling on Vett -- I'm just not convinced that "fine" is "good enough." That's all -- will happily eat crow if Carlos performs at a high level this year.
 

upperdeck

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our issue has been less we can find 5 to run with its that we have been hard pressed to deal with the 1-3 injuries that always happen to an oline. if the Big boys have issues losing a couple its no wonder we do too. if we can find 7 we trust thats huge
 

rrlbees

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I made a post earlier today in another thread about how important it will be for Bleich / Davis to avoid injuries this season, so no argument there. And Bleich at C is a question mark -- but it isn't unusual for interior OL to cross-train between G and C, and with Schmidt overseeing this transition, I trust that it will work.

I'm more worried about Ellis's weight than I am about his performance from last year, when he was a true frosh. If it doesn't hinder him, the I expect him to be markedly improved with a season of starting experience under his belt, to build upon.

Bergeron is a pro prospect in my mind. So, not worried about him at all.

So beyond Bleich / Davis staying healthy, what couple of other spots should I worry about?

I'm not attacking the kid -- just not convinced that Vett is a plus caliber starter, like a Koda Martin [for example] was at RT. Him being in the starting lineup at RT might be more of a black mark against some of the other pieces in the pipeline than it is about him. Will be happy if he proves me wrong, but the line has been problematic for a long time. Substantial improvement was shown last year, due to Schmidt. But it remains to be seen whether Vett is the missing piece at RT. Him running with the #1's is a sign that those concerns might be unfounded, but I want to see it unfold on the field before I'll stop being concerned about the quality of play to expect at RT.

If you’re worried about Vett then you should be worried about the current guards, Ellis and Davis who both graded lower than Vett.
 

RF2044

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If you’re worried about Vett then you should be worried about the current guards, Ellis and Davis who both graded lower than Vett.

I'm worried that Davis can't seem to make it through a season without getting dinged up and missing time.

And as mentioned -- I'm more worried about Ellis's weight / conditioning than I am about him making a jump in performance, now that he's acclimated to the collegiate game, has game / starting experience, and has had an additional offseason to learn his assignments. Ellis has the physical tools [like Bergeron] to be an all-league caliber performer -- he was just inexperienced last year.

I don't view CV as having the same potential, and I'm not sure that he's anything more than stop gap. I don't think that is true of the other 4 guys listed as running with the first unit.

I just don't see him performing at a high level as the fait accompli some of you apparently do. I love Schmidt, I think he's going to get things turned around and have the OL go from a question mark with questionable depth to a team strength, and it might happen as early as this year. But the PTSD of recent line play, dropoff when injuries occur, lack of quality depth, etc. have me squarely in "show me" mode.
 

TheCusian

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I don’t understand the intricacies of OL play well enough to determine who is playing better than others - so PFF grades are like a flashlight in the dark.

I think, when we had our best output (with a now fired OC) it was with a healthy group. I trust our whole offensive staff more than any group since P.
 

JRHEETER

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I'm kind of confused over the Cruz hype.

He's our tailgate guy. Cool.

He was a decently rated croot. Cool.

But I don't feel like we've actually heard a lot about him from the staff, and certainly haven't seen him.

Yet his name comes up by fans on the board as a guy that could push for snaps, or maybe even bump an experienced guy.

What am I missing? Is something real there, or is this just fan hype?

Cruz took reps with the 1s today as an FYI
 

sufandu

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You’ll see in time

From everything I’ve heard from good sources, he’s been a stud in spring and they expect him to build even more on that in camp.

He’s one of the first one in and last out kinda guys. Always working to improve his game. Very high motor
Good to hear. We need more guys to be good enough to step on early in their careers and be above average or better starters for 3-4 years if we want to be consistent enough to be relevant again.
 

RICuse44

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Of the possible starters that have been listed I would be most worried about bleich. He has played the least amount of available snaps.

Berg is a gift. Vet is a good RT. Ellis and Davis are maulers. We need a center
 

Cuse'91

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Of the possible starters that have been listed I would be most worried about bleich. He has played the least amount of available snaps.

Berg is a gift. Vet is a good RT. Ellis and Davis are maulers. We need a center
Josh Ilaoa looks visibly thicker this year. I'm expecting him to step up, and take control of the center position at some point this season.
 

Cuseregular

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I'm kind of confused over the Cruz hype.

He's our tailgate guy. Cool.

He was a decently rated croot. Cool.

But I don't feel like we've actually heard a lot about him from the staff, and certainly haven't seen him.

Yet his name comes up by fans on the board as a guy that could push for snaps, or maybe even bump an experienced guy.

What am I missing? Is something real there, or is this just fan hype?
Cruz is a legit 6’6”, legit 300 lbs. Solid athletic 300lbs. Smart kid too. Sure he works hard, most importantly he’s made huge physical strides since last year.

He’s ALWAYS first in all drills with his unit. Both in sprints/run drills, and with agility drills as well. Translation: coorrdinated, fast and athletic and now very strong. That’s a great combination that spells into great potential.

That potential has showed now in practice such that he’s getting notice now. That includes Bergeron seeing the potential/performance such that he’s taken him under his wing.

All this makes it a logical progression to figure that will translate to success on the field, at least one would think so, certainly hope so.
 

orangepassion

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Cruz is a legit 6’6”, legit 300 lbs. Solid athletic 300lbs. Smart kid too. Sure he works hard, most importantly he’s made huge physical strides since last year.

He’s ALWAYS first in all drills with his unit. Both in sprints/run drills, and with agility drills as well. Translation: coorrdinated, fast and athletic and now very strong. That’s a great combination that spells into great potential.

That potential has showed now in practice such that he’s getting notice now. That includes Bergeron seeing the potential/performance such that he’s taken him under his wing.

All this makes it a logical progression to figure that will translate to success on the field, at least one would think so, certainly hope so.
I think he gets on the field THIS year
 

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