Something to think about

[dasher]

While our start this season is just a shocking development, I would like to remind everyone about the kind of decade that we are currently experiencing. Twice at the end of the regular season, we have been a one seed. That is a first in the history of our program. Two other times we went to the final four. Another time we started out 25-0. The vast majority of schools would trade places with us in a second. we have been elite. We have recruited kids that while highly ranked, were not the elite of the elite. And yet, time after time, we have kids rise above their ranking and leave early. That has hurt us. But we still have done awfully well. Our players do get better here. We don;t just roll the ball out and let them play. you don't have the success that we have had here doing that. In the history of the Big East, the greatest conference I ever saw, we had by far the best record. And it's not close. Both UConn and G-town had great runs, but they had periods of at best average play. We didn't. The way we are playing right now is both disgusting and disappointing. The last two years we have suffered losses to absolute terrible teams. No one knows for certain how this season will go. I guarantee you that there will be some very good wins. Probably some more very bad losses too. But it is important to remember before we take the stance that we never do this well or we never do that well. We have won a lot of games. And had Fab and Arinze not missed the NCAA tournaments in 2010 and 2012, I think we would have won a few more games.

 

[pearl31]

nah, stubborn and tavern league and flame out and mean and brought shame on the school and can't recruit anymore and like barely over .500 last two years

 

[br801]

While our start this season is just a shocking development, I would like to remind everyone about the kind of decade that we are currently experiencing. Twice at the end of the regular season, we have been a one seed. That is a first in the history of our program. Two other times we went to the final four. Another time we started out 25-0. The vast majority of schools would trade places with us in a second. we have been elite. We have recruited kids that while highly ranked, were not the elite of the elite. And yet, time after time, we have kids rise above their ranking and leave early. That has hurt us. But we still have done awfully well. Our players do get better here. We don;t just roll the ball out and let them play. you don't have the success that we have had here doing that. In the history of the Big East, the greatest conference I ever saw, we had by far the best record. And it's not close. Both UConn and G-town had great runs, but they had periods of at best average play. We didn't. The way we are playing right now is both disgusting and disappointing. The last two years we have suffered losses to absolute terrible teams. No one knows for certain how this season will go. I guarantee you that there will be some very good wins. Probably some more very bad losses too. But it is important to remember you we have been before we take the stance that we never do this well or we never do that well. We have won a lot of games. And had Fab and Arinze not missed the NCAA tournaments in 2010 and 2012, I think we would have won a few more games.

This should be tacked to the top of the board so it sits above all the gloom and doom threads about JB, Hop and specific players.

 

[ebucklewis]

I think some need to understand how hard it is to win at this level. You need great guard play and we don't have that right now. Our guards have some growing up to do but I think we will be fine. Nobody hates losing more than JB. He will right the ship.

 

[Oráiste]

We're all proud of the history of this program, especially the recent history.

But you have to be obtuse not to recognize that we have come down considerably from those heights, that the trajectory does not bode well for the immediate future, and that Boeheim's impending retirement casts a shadow over the near and middle term futures.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Boeheim to right the ship before this season ends, or maybe squeeze out a post-season push like last year. But the lesson from last year is that, while a March run is very satisfying in the moment, it will not reverse ongoing programmatic issues. I don't think we're going to be able to field a legit contender until the sanctions have fully run their course, and at that point we'll be facing the uncertainty of a new coaching regime.

 

[dasher]

We're all proud of the history of this program, especially the recent history.

But you have to be obtuse not to recognize that we have come down considerably from those heights, that the trajectory does not bode well for the immediate future, and that Boeheim's impending retirement casts a shadow over the near and middle term futures.

I certainly wouldn't put it past Boeheim to right the ship before this season ends, or maybe squeeze out a post-season push like last year. But the lesson from last year is that, while a March run is very satisfying in the moment, it will not reverse ongoing programmatic issues. I don't think we're going to be able to field a legit contender until the sanctions have fully run their course, and at that point we'll be facing the uncertainty of a new coaching regime.

You also have to look back at the last 40+ years to see other peaks and valley's. We have gone through rough patches before. Only to surge back. You would have to be obtuse not to recognize that. Now, JB leaving is looming over the program and that does change the dynamics. I think we need a major recruiter to be brought in. Much like Troy Weaver did for the program. He was a guy that said we are Syracuse and we can recruit anyone. I don't feel that same way with G-Mac and AA. I hope that AA can get his head coaching job and we can recruit a dynamo as a ass't coach. But coming off the years we currently are having, I don't expect that. And I don't think Hop would make a move with G-Mac. I don't think the sky is falling. That was the point of my post. We have been here before. We have had very bad losses before. But at the end, we are SYRACUSE. That hasn't changed. And because of that, I think we will be okay.

 

[CuseCactus]

Love both of your posts Dasher. Syracuse hasn't had a losing season - I think - since I was born in 1969. Incredible. With that said, I don't share your optimism - especially after Boeheim retires and is replaced with Hop. In house succession planning very, very rarely works. We need an alpha running the program in the years to come - to reinvigorate and drive the future. Hops been in a beta role for 25 years.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

At times I often question how long some people who post on this board have been following SU. In my opinion this program has had 2 really solid era's in its history 86-91 and 09-14 but we've also had some really down years! The mid to late 90s teams were mediocre at best with very few top recruits on any team. Everyone needs to settle down and understand that this is a very unique team unlike any that I can recall. This team does not know how to play together yet and I feel strongly that by midseason they will start to gel.

 

[Oráiste]

You also have to look back at the last 40+ years to see other peaks and valley's. We have gone through rough patches before. Only to surge back. You would have to be obtuse not to recognize that. Now, JB leaving is looming over the program and that does change the dynamics. I think we need a major recruiter to be brought in. Much like Troy Weaver did for the program. He was a guy that said we are Syracuse and we can recruit anyone. I don't feel that same way with G-Mac and AA. I hope that AA can get his head coaching job and we can recruit a dynamo as a ass't coach. But coming off the years we currently are having, I don't expect that. And I don't think Hop would make a move with G-Mac. I don't think the sky is falling. That was the point of my post. We have been here before. We have had very bad losses before. But at the end, we are SYRACUSE. That hasn't changed. And because of that, I think we will be okay.

my counter point is that the basketball program is not SYRACUSE ... is is BOEHEIM. And sooner rather than later, he's leaving. Yes, we've always recovered from down periods, but we've always had Boeheim there to lead the revovery. That isn't going to be the case very soon. We are entering uncharted territory where his 40 year history becomes irrelevant.

I agree about getting in a new assistant. Bring back Rob Murphy!

We have an all alumni coaching staff, but the two most successful recent periods - the 2003 title and the 2009-13 run - were due in large part to assistants from outside the family - Weaver and Murphy. Maybe just a coincidence, but incest and nepotism are rarely good things so lets go for a shakeup.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

While our start this season is just a shocking development, I would like to remind everyone about the kind of decade that we are currently experiencing. Twice at the end of the regular season, we have been a one seed. That is a first in the history of our program. Two other times we went to the final four. Another time we started out 25-0. The vast majority of schools would trade places with us in a second. we have been elite. We have recruited kids that while highly ranked, were not the elite of the elite. And yet, time after time, we have kids rise above their ranking and leave early. That has hurt us. But we still have done awfully well. Our players do get better here. We don;t just roll the ball out and let them play. you don't have the success that we have had here doing that. In the history of the Big East, the greatest conference I ever saw, we had by far the best record. And it's not close. Both UConn and G-town had great runs, but they had periods of at best average play. We didn't. The way we are playing right now is both disgusting and disappointing. The last two years we have suffered losses to absolute terrible teams. No one knows for certain how this season will go. I guarantee you that there will be some very good wins. Probably some more very bad losses too. But it is important to remember before we take the stance that we never do this well or we never do that well. We have won a lot of games. And had Fab and Arinze not missed the NCAA tournaments in 2010 and 2012, I think we would have won a few more games.

This, and Oraiste's first post are both true.

 

[TinyManInside]

nah, stubborn and tavern league and flame out and mean and brought shame on the school and can't recruit anymore and like barely over .500 last two years

While a lot of the stuff that you cite above is crazy hyperbole, there is definitely merit in pointing out the cumulative record since our 25 game win streak ended. 49-36 is a VERIFIABLE fact. It's not a spin, it's not an exaggeration. Those are the unvarnished numbers, and although they include one visit to the F4, the overall winning percentage in that stretch is a far cry from the sustained level of excellence that Boeheim has shown over his 40 years here.

We can debate the factors for this drop in winning percentage all day long, but the bottom line is that historically he's won 63 of every 85 games, so 49 wins in that stretch is massive underperformance compared to the previous 1,200+ games he coached.

 

[TinyManInside]

While our start this season is just a shocking development, I would like to remind everyone about the kind of decade that we are currently experiencing. Twice at the end of the regular season, we have been a one seed. That is a first in the history of our program. Two other times we went to the final four. Another time we started out 25-0. The vast majority of schools would trade places with us in a second. we have been elite. We have recruited kids that while highly ranked, were not the elite of the elite. And yet, time after time, we have kids rise above their ranking and leave early. That has hurt us. But we still have done awfully well. Our players do get better here. We don;t just roll the ball out and let them play. you don't have the success that we have had here doing that. In the history of the Big East, the greatest conference I ever saw, we had by far the best record. And it's not close. Both UConn and G-town had great runs, but they had periods of at best average play. We didn't. The way we are playing right now is both disgusting and disappointing. The last two years we have suffered losses to absolute terrible teams. No one knows for certain how this season will go. I guarantee you that there will be some very good wins. Probably some more very bad losses too. But it is important to remember before we take the stance that we never do this well or we never do that well. We have won a lot of games. And had Fab and Arinze not missed the NCAA tournaments in 2010 and 2012, I think we would have won a few more games.

Thank you for providing some much needed perspective.