sorry but coaching is a problem | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

sorry but coaching is a problem

All these reasons for our decline the last four years aren't reasons, they're excuses. In his pressers, Boeheim lists the excuses one after another. Like everything else it all starts at the top. When you've got real reasons you adjust to the hand you've got. When all you have is excuses you don't change. Our guy doesn't change.

No they are reasons. Our top talent left early and the NCAA sanctions crippled us just like the sanctions intended to do.

Name us another program who has maintained their elite status in the world under NCAA sanctions and scholarship reductions while having lost all their best players?

You can't adjust a bad hand. There's no bluffing, it's just a bad hand.
 
Yeah, 8 is tough, but Chukwu is a RS Jr. Warrick played 15 mpg as a frosh and took 5 fga per game. Marek is getting nearly 30 mpg in conference and taking a little more than 3.

Warrick and Wallace were probably guarded and, besides, they all had the same coach and that's the point. Throwing up his hands and saying, nothing can be done isn't really a good option when teams do run plays for players to get open looks. Opposing teams know that Marek/Moyer/Chukwu aren't going to get the ball so they sag off them. A HOF coach can't run a few plays a game to take advantage of that?

what difference does it make if those 3 can't make any shots. JB sees them in practice. There's a reason why they don't shoot in games.
 
Could this just a generational thing? Millennials are known not to take criticism well and JB obviously will get in your face when you mess up.

Here in Minnesota with the TWolves, Coach Thibodou has had issues communicating and motivating Andrew Wiggins and Karl Anthony Towns with his yelling and direct criticism toward them. While Tibs gets along great with Jimmy Butler who has an old school attitude and great work ethic. Tibs worked for many years with Coach K and JB with USA basketball and follows the yell/direct approach but many of his critics wonder if that method works well with today's young players. Many SU needs to do more research when recruiting into which players can handle being told when they screw up and that they aren't the next Lebron.
Maybe it is a generational thing. The question is, do you adapt your style to the changing environment? Coach K did. So did Roy. Will JB remain a "get off my lawn" style coach forever? Seems that way. I think this kicked him in the face the past couple years. It's embarrassing when you have top 50, top 30 players saying they were interested in Syracuse but JB never offered, never visited, never made an effort, or just sent an assistant to watch their game once or twice. The recruiting trail is a grind, and I understand JB has had a very nice young family, and probably values his time home with the wife and kids, which you can't fault a man for. If he's not willing to grind the recruiting trail from April to October, maybe he shouldn't be coaching anymore.
 
No they are reasons. Our top talent left early and the NCAA sanctions crippled us just like the sanctions intended to do.

Name us another program who has maintained their elite status in the world under NCAA sanctions and scholarship reductions while having lost all their best players?

You can't adjust a bad hand. There's no bluffing, it's just a bad hand.

You're right you can't adjust a bad hand. But you sure can adjust the way you play it. Maybe it doesn't turn out differently, maybe it does. Otherwise you're just making excuses.
 
Maybe it is a generational thing. The question is, do you adapt your style to the changing environment? Coach K did. So did Roy. Will JB remain a "get off my lawn" style coach forever? Seems that way. I think this kicked him in the face the past couple years. It's embarrassing when you have top 50, top 30 players saying they were interested in Syracuse but JB never offered, never visited, never made an effort, or just sent an assistant to watch their game once or twice. The recruiting trail is a grind, and I understand JB has had a very nice young family, and probably values his time home with the wife and kids, which you can't fault a man for. If he's not willing to grind the recruiting trail from April to October, maybe he shouldn't be coaching anymore.

He won’t change. He’s too stuck in his ways.
 
You're right you can't adjust a bad hand. But you sure can adjust the way you play it. Maybe it doesn't turn out differently, maybe it does. Otherwise you're just making excuses.


The problem is everyone knows what our hand is...so we can’t ‘bluff’ anymore. Teams know who will or won’t shoot...who can or can’t dribble...the gig is up baby.
 
I’m disturbed mostly by the lack of fundamentals that rears it’s ugly head here a lot. Our guys don’t look like basketball players.
You really think the Syracuse coaches aren’t teaching them fundamentals? A Hall of Fame coach doesn’t bother teaching fundamentals? Ask any college coach, the problem is that the kids aren’t learning enough fundamentals in the HS and AAU system. They come in very very raw. It’s compounded by the fact that we recruit a lot of athletes who come in with raw skill development because they just relied on their athleticism and height to score and overpower defenders in high school, but didn’t really develop their fundamentals. The coaches only get them for a limited practice time each day, and we have to get them to unlearn years of bad habits.
 
Just as next season's football results are crucial to the program, so is next year's hoops results. JB cleary has a much better and extensive track record of success than Babers, but missing the tourney 3 out of the past 4 years is certainly going to have considerably more pressure on him to not just Dance, but a high seed to boot.


It's not just sanctions. JB is turning into Gary Williams / Bobby Bowden before our eyes.
 
There are so many issues right now. I agree that coaching is one of them, but doesn't necessarily have to be one next year. JB has his system and if the pieces are there, it'll be successful. If not, he needs to do more.

He can't keep running pick and rolls with Chukwu, having an offense where everybody stands around, a defense that can be carved up when teams actively attack, etc. I don't have the solutions, but I know that doing the same things over and over are problematic.


JB had a full team last season. We were 2 deep at every position. That's why he said pre-seasaon that he thought we were going to be a terrific team.
 
It's the staff's job to develop players and it's the staff that deals the cards. They bring the players in. There is plenty of blame to go around. You really think BC has that much more talent ?
You bet your life they do. We don't have three (even one?) shooters like they have. And not to downgrade Tyus, but Robinson is the better player.
 
All these reasons for our decline the last four years aren't reasons, they're excuses. In his pressers, Boeheim lists the excuses one after another. Like everything else it all starts at the top. When you've got real reasons you adjust to the hand you've got. When all you have is excuses you don't change. Our guy doesn't change.
Change to what this year?
 
He won’t change. He’s too stuck in his ways.
Look at a guy like Roy Williams. He's become a super player friendly coach the past 5 years. We all make fun of him for his corny sayings and dances with the player, but the fact is, players love that. UNC players are happy to play for Roy, they're happy to celebrate with him too. How often do SU players walk by JB during a timeout, or roll their eyes when he yells at them during a game?
 
Look at a guy like Roy Williams. He's become a super player friendly coach the past 5 years. We all make fun of him for his corny sayings and dances with the player, but the fact is, players love that. UNC players are happy to play for Roy, they're happy to celebrate with him too. How often do SU players walk by JB during a timeout, or roll their eyes when he yells at them during a game?
JB seems to be on good terms with most of his former players, many of whom return to Syracuse for games or show up to support the program when SU is playing in the NCAAT. I'm not sure the same can be said of all coaches, including some of the bigger names in the sport.
 
JB seems to be on good terms with most of his former players, many of whom return to Syracuse for games or show up to support the program when SU is playing in the NCAAT. I'm not sure the same can be said of all coaches, including some of the bigger names in the sport.

I don't know about all this.
 
JB seems to be on good terms with most of his former players, many of whom return to Syracuse for games or show up to support the program when SU is playing in the NCAAT. I'm not sure the same can be said of all coaches, including some of the bigger names in the sport.

Well... I somewhat agree.

I think he is with the older players, who CLEARLY show out in droves when we play, and all express universally positive sentiment about JB / SU / their time in the program.

My concern is that those guys played for a younger, slightly more mellow, not as crotchety-old-man version of JB, who might be increasingly disconnected from the players in the last 10 years. Not sure that more recent players feel the same as the guys who played for him in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s do.
 
I don't know about all this.
I qualified my statement, which of course is only my opinion.
 
You bet your life they do. We don't have three (even one?) shooters like they have. And not to downgrade Tyus, but Robinson is the better player.

BC had great ball movement and got a lot of open looks. You're gonna shoot those looks a lot better than when you're shooting with a man in your face like this team seems to do so often. There doesn't seem to be any attempt to move the ball. A couple token passes and someone jacks one up or drives to the hoop. There are very few passes with purpose. Is it the players ? Is it the coach ? I don't know, probably some combination. But this team does not look well coached on the offensive the end.
 
BC had great ball movement and got a lot of open looks. You're gonna shoot those looks a lot better than when you're shooting with a man in your face like this team seems to do so often. There doesn't seem to be any attempt to move the ball. A couple token passes and someone jacks one up or drives to the hoop. There are very few passes with purpose. Is it the players ? Is it the coach ? I don't know, probably some combination. But this team does not look well coached on the offensive the end.

The shooters are streaky, team speed is meh at best, and driving/ballhandling is limited to only a couple of players. JB already said they aren’t really looking to pass and rack up assists. They are trying to drive the ball. I mean it does suck for sure and they constantly attack one side of the floor and don’t move the defense. I’m not sure how much can be fixed with this group.
 
Well... I somewhat agree.

I think he is with the older players, who CLEARLY show out in droves when we play, and all express universally positive sentiment about JB / SU / their time in the program.

My concern is that those guys played for a younger, slightly more mellow, not as crotchety-old-man version of JB, who might be increasingly disconnected from the players in the last 10 years. Not sure that more recent players feel the same as the guys who played for him in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s do.
That's a fair assessment. I guess it remains to be seen how the more recent players will come to view him.
 
It's not just sanctions. JB is turning into Gary Williams / Bobby Bowden before our eyes.

Williams was 65 when he retired. Bowden was 79. Boeheim has pointed to Williams as an example of a coach who regretted leaving early.
 
There is a reason that just about every coaching legend get pushed out against their will when they reach their 70s...
This is exactly spot on. Too many people are focused on what kind of coach Boeheim was. We all agree he was a coaching legend and Syracuse basketball owes more or less everything to the man. But none of that matters as to the coach he is now. The history of legendary coaches at one school - when it comes to the end - is not pretty. Guys get older, they are stuck in their ways, innovation and creativity take a nosedive, energy lags, the attention to detail relaxes - it's just what happens. Add to that the fact that Boeheim - already the ly type - is even more grumpy old man in his old age and is seemingly an increasingly poor match in getting through to teenagers. We're seen Boeheim act inappropriately more and more in press conferences when it comes to lashing out at players. How he treated Roberson, for instance, was not only terrible, but entirely out of step with how modern times (I'm not saying the players need to be coddled, so save your internet ink. I'm just saying the grumpy old man routine isn't getting through.) Players aren't improving the way they used to at Syracuse.

It isn't pretty and it is hard to accept, but Boeheim has pretty clearly lost his fastball and is a shell of the hall of fame coach we fondly remember.
 
Well... I somewhat agree.

I think he is with the older players, who CLEARLY show out in droves when we play, and all express universally positive sentiment about JB / SU / their time in the program.

My concern is that those guys played for a younger, slightly more mellow, not as crotchety-old-man version of JB, who might be increasingly disconnected from the players in the last 10 years. Not sure that more recent players feel the same as the guys who played for him in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s do.

Older players can relate to great grandpa better than younger players.
 
Williams was 65 when he retired. Bowden was 79. Boeheim has pointed to Williams as an example of a coach who regretted leaving early.

Williams didn't retire by choice and neither did Bowden and if we're still hanging out on the bubble for the next 2 or 3 years than neither will JB.
 
Maybe it is a generational thing. The question is, do you adapt your style to the changing environment? Coach K did. So did Roy. Will JB remain a "get off my lawn" style coach forever? Seems that way. I think this kicked him in the face the past couple years. It's embarrassing when you have top 50, top 30 players saying they were interested in Syracuse but JB never offered, never visited, never made an effort, or just sent an assistant to watch their game once or twice. The recruiting trail is a grind, and I understand JB has had a very nice young family, and probably values his time home with the wife and kids, which you can't fault a man for. If he's not willing to grind the recruiting trail from April to October, maybe he shouldn't be coaching anymore.

Coach K had to get one and done's and under Boeheim he has changed his defense. It helps that Duke Basketball pretty much operates as its own entity within the University.

Roy Williams doesn't get NBA talent anymore. They go down the road to Durham. He gets guys who may have potential to play pro after a few years of seasoning, but more than often don't.
 
For the love of all that is holy is I have to watch Paschal Chukwu run pick and roll one more game I may lose my mind
The problem with the SU pick and roll is that it isn't run correctly. It was open a lot last night, just like every game. It can't be half-asked, it needs to be run with conviction and the guards have to occasionally pass the ball to the roller.
 

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