sorry but coaching is a problem

[dollarbill44]

Agreed but if you can trust Chukwu to set the perfect screen, roll, catch the ball while moving, dribble, and score then I have a bridge to sell ya

If the pick and roll is run right, there's no dribbling needed. It's pretty simple.

 

[UnknownOrange]

If the pick and roll is run right, there's nip dribbling needed. It's pretty simple.

While I agree I think we both know it being run right is just never not happening lol

 

[EastCoast2]

JB seems to be on good terms with most of his former players, many of whom return to Syracuse for games or show up to support the program when SU is playing in the NCAAT. I'm not sure the same can be said of all coaches, including some of the bigger names in the sport.

I don't think so. Kind of hard to be on good terms with your former coach when he publicly says you're not ready for the NBA and you're making a mistake.

 

[HOFCeluck]

13+ losses in 5 out of 7 years is worse than what we’re dealing with now. The narrative on Gary in those years was he hated the recruiting game and didn’t want to do what it took to land good talent. Whether that was true or not, we don’t have that problem.

Our issue has been roster management, with sanctions magnifying this problem. We are still landing good players and good classes. If we had a fringe top 100 player and a couple of 3 stars coming in next year I would be panicking, but we will have good talent. This season sucked but our inexperienced, injury-riddled 5.5-6 player “rotation” is about to get a lot deeper and a lot more talented.

Gary Williams stopped recruiting because he felt vindicated by his NC which didn't have a single high school all american.

Similarly JB felt vindicated by the effectiveness of the zone, so everything we do as a program is geared toward that.

its his comfort zone

 

[Jasoncuse]

13+ losses in 5 out of 7 years is worse than what we’re dealing with now. The narrative on Gary in those years was he hated the recruiting game and didn’t want to do what it took to land good talent. Whether that was true or not, we don’t have that problem.

Our issue has been roster management, with sanctions magnifying this problem. We are still landing good players and good classes. If we had a fringe top 100 player and a couple of 3 stars coming in next year I would be panicking, but we will have good talent. This season sucked but our inexperienced, injury-riddled 5.5-6 player “rotation” is about to get a lot deeper and a lot more talented.

Are we sure about that?

 

[raf4488]

Are we sure about that?

JB is still landing guys like Richardson, Battle, and Bazely. We don’t have enough talent this year, but that’s not all because of recruiting.

We should have a roster that is deep and talented enough to compete at the top of the ACC next year. If that doesn’t happen, then I’ll agree that it’s time to move on.

 

[manleyzoo]

One bazillion percent dead on balls accurate.

As Mona Lisa Vito said to Vincent Laguardia Gambini in My Cousin Vinny, "it's an industry term."

 

[manleyzoo]

K switching to zone defense kills all those old arguments about how "real teams" (i.e. "real men") play man to man and impose their will on the opponent. I guess the guy with the most wins all-time doesn't agree after working with Boeheim for the last 12 years.

All we know is that K has switched to all zone all the time for this season only after his man-to-man was getting killed. Based on personnel he may very well go back to M2M next year and throw the zone in here and there if circumstances and game situations call for it. You know, like change things up every once in a while. In our program doing something different isn't allowed.

 

[Orange Barrel]

One thing people don't like to think about, and rarely say on here, is that a significant reason for the depleted rosters due to early departures is because of JB. Even if Tyus Battle was considering coming back for his junior season, do you really think he would want to come back to play zone and get yelled at by a 74 year old man? I don't get why so many people are shocked when guys like MCW, Ennis, Grant, McCullough, Malachi, Lydon, and soon to be Battle, leave early. While draft-able guys stay at UNC 3-4 years.

Kind of hard to be on good terms with your former coach when he publicly says you're not ready for the NBA and you're making a mistake.

Is there a link or quote or article that supports this notion? I see former players coming back all the time. I see former players attending games all the time all over the country. I look down the guy's bench and I see former players. Lots of them. Players jump because it's the NB freaking A calling and that's the ultimate goal.

 

[raf4488]

Gary Williams stopped recruiting because he felt vindicated by his NC which didn't have a single high school all american.

Similarly JB felt vindicated by the effectiveness of the zone, so everything we do as a program is geared toward that.

its his comfort zone

Not sure about this. I assume you mean that JB prioritizes the effectiveness of his defense over other aspects of the team. Yet last year we were 30th in offensive efficiency and 119th in defense, according to Pomeroy. The zone would’ve clearly been better with the taller, longer Howard getting more minutes at the point, but Gillon started and played 30+ minutes a night.

Unfortunately there’s not much that can be done with this team to make it effective offensively. We don’t have a single player that can score efficiently close to the basket. And that has nothing to do with the zone.

 

[EastCoast2]

Is there a link or quote or article that supports this notion? I see former players coming back all the time. I see former players attending games all the time all over the country. I look down the guy's bench and I see former players. Lots of them. Players jump because it's the NB freaking A calling and that's the ultimate goal.

Name one Syracuse player who would have been drafted but returned for one more year.

 

[Jasoncuse]

JB is still landing guys like Richardson, Battle, and Bazely. We don’t have enough talent this year, but that’s not all because of recruiting.

We should have a roster that is deep and talented enough to compete at the top of the ACC next year. If that doesn’t happen, then I’ll agree that it’s time to move on.

There was a large gap between Battle and Bazley, at least when looking at recruiting. JB wasn't doing as much as HC's; that's been mentioned by numerous insiders. That's fine. He stepped it up immediately after Hop left, but I'm worried we're heading back in the direction. We need JB out there, we can't rely on assistant only when battling the big guys.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not sure about this. I assume you mean that JB prioritizes the effectiveness of his defense over other aspects of the team. Yet last year we were 30th in offensive efficiency and 119th in defense, according to Pomeroy. The zone would’ve clearly been better with the taller, longer Howard getting more minutes at the point, but Gillon started and played 30+ minutes a night.

Unfortunately there’s not much that can be done with this team to make it effective offensively. We don’t have a single player that can score efficiently close to the basket. And that has nothing to do with the zone.

One season where we had an unreal shot maker doesn’t negate trends.

 

[Alsacs]

Name one Syracuse player who would have been drafted but returned for one more year.

Our last real bonafide player we got an extra year out of was Hak Warrick in 2005.

Tyler Lydon stayed an extra year last year but I don’t know if he goes first round in 2016 draft.

Dion and Fab Melo stayed in 2011 but neither would have been first rounders in that draft.

MCW stayed after 2012 but he wasn’t going first round.
CJ Fair wanted to leave after 2014 but he came back because he wasn’t a draft pick.

 

[EastCoast2]

Our last real bonafide player we got an extra year out of was Hak Warrick in 2005.

Tyler Lydon stayed an extra year last year but I don’t know if he goes first round in 2016 draft.

Dion and Fab Melo stayed in 2011 but neither would have been first rounders in that draft.

MCW stayed after 2012 but he wasn’t going first round.
CJ Fair wanted to leave after 2014 but he came back because he wasn’t a draft pick.

Exactly my point.

Ennis didn't return when he was draftable. Would have been up for ACC 1st team. Same with Malachi in 2016.
Grant left and was a 2nd rounder. He would have also dominated the ACC as a junior.
McCullough is kind of forgotten in this discussion, since he played 1/3 of a season and was never playing 2 years in college.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Name one Syracuse player who would have been drafted but returned for one more year.

Not really my point. You're saying they're leaving because of JB. I see no evidence of that.

 

[AZOrange]

You really think the Syracuse coaches aren’t teaching them fundamentals? A Hall of Fame coach doesn’t bother teaching fundamentals? Ask any college coach, the problem is that the kids aren’t learning enough fundamentals in the HS and AAU system. They come in very very raw. It’s compounded by the fact that we recruit a lot of athletes who come in with raw skill development because they just relied on their athleticism and height to score and overpower defenders in high school, but didn’t really develop their fundamentals. The coaches only get them for a limited practice time each day, and we have to get them to unlearn years of bad habits.

Nope. I don’t think we focus on them much. Other teams do not have the issues we have in these areas.

 

[br801]

Name one Syracuse player who would have been drafted but returned for one more year.

The goal for these guys is getting to the NBA, and getting drafted is the most direct route. Name all the SU players who left before they exhausted their eligibility and went undrafted.

 

[Alsacs]

Nope. I don’t think we focus on them much. Other teams do not have the issues we have in these areas.

You are correct.
We haven’t been a good fundamental team since 2010.
Coaching clearly doesn’t work on these small fundamentals like stressing limiting turnovers, passing the ball, or other easy fundamentals.

Our players don’t improve in these fields and that is coaching.

They get taught the zone well.
They get taught a stupid pick and roll ball screen.
JB treats them like pros. Which is good and bad.

 

[SU Dreaming]

Take a look at the 15 highest paid coaches in NCAA. How much do you think the school plans on spending after JB's retires?

Forget about who will be the next coach, how about start with what will be the next head coaches contract? Meaning how many years and total amount ?

Now i say Good luck.

JB has been giving the school a massive discount for the last 15-20 years, to the tune of ballpark total # of $40,000,000.00.
Now - do you think the board (of the school - not this board) think they are getting a discount or do they think they pay him a ton of money and are looking forward to putting some of it back in their budgets after he retires?

When the team was playing well earlier in the season, the board was rather quiet. Did coaching pass him by then or have had a ton injuries and the lack of depth has caught up with us? Yes lack of depth, our 2 best players are forced to play 40 minutes per game b/c the 2 back-ups are gone. The #2 scoring option, starting PF decided to leave us on the 1st day of school etc. etc. There is no way to recover from the loss of 3 players, and 2 of them were our #2 and #3 best scorers. Plus a few other guys like BS are playing hurt. I am not bringing up guys who left early or should be here or shouldn't be here, just talking about what the roster was the day before school started. Forget about everything else.

Then add the fact we have been on probation.

You have no idea how good we have it. JB is not perfect, far from it, i do not like or agree with everything , but that's life, win some lose some, you get back up and try again.

Then - now add in the FBI scandal, i wonder why we did not get any of the top players???? I mean they ALL came up to visit, we are their favorite school, we are in the top 2, top 3, top 4, where did it go wrong? Maybe it was b/c they found greener pastures in Arizona, and Seton Hall and Kansas and so on.

Look at the post on the Vernon Carey thread, watch his interview.

Even before TT left we thought it was going to be a down year, the kids have played real hard, the coaches and staff have been working like crazy, maybe we get lucky and win 3 in a row, prob not, i am going to enjoy the game regardless tomorrow, hopefully go to Brooklyn for more than 1 game and then start looking forward to next season.

Big Congrats to Tyus and Marek!!!
2018 All-ACC Academic Men’s Basketball Team Announced

 

[CuseCPT]

I get your sentiment, but think about this ... when Navy football gets down 17-21 points, they don't come out in the second half in the Air Raid offense. Do they throw more out of their option offense? Yes. But no Air Raid.

Wouldn't a better analogy be a football team that played Nickel regardless of opponent, score, down or field position?

 

[OrangeDW]

You are correct.
We haven’t been a good fundamental team since 2010.
Coaching clearly doesn’t work on these small fundamentals like stressing limiting turnovers, passing the ball, or other easy fundamentals.

Our players don’t improve in these fields and that is coaching.

They get taught the zone well.
They get taught a stupid pick and roll ball screen.
JB treats them like pros. Which is good and bad.

So we went 34-3 in 2012 without having “fundamentals”? Cmon.

 

[EastCoast2]

The goal for these guys is getting to the NBA, and getting drafted is the most direct route. Name all the SU players who left before they exhausted their eligibility and went undrafted.

This isn't a good analogy, but I'll answer it anyway: Josh Wright, Eric Devendorf, Paul Harris, Geno Thorpe.

 

[albanycuse]

The problem is the players we have and their lack of offense, the reduction of scholarships we suffered over the last few years and injured players. Definitely not the coaching.

 

[br801]

This isn't a good analogy, but I'll answer it anyway: Josh Wright, Eric Devendorf, Paul Harris, Geno Thorpe.

Those guys left, or were encouraged to leave, under rather unusual circumstances of their own doing, and were never going to hear their names called on draft night anyway.

My original point was that JB is not driving our recent early entrants out of the program; rather, they are leaving because their NBA stock is high and that has in fact been confirmed as all have been selected within the first 40 picks.