Sorry, but it is time...

[manleyzoo]

Riight. You got a better theory? I’d say the PG and Centers are a huge factor in not pushing more. The rebounding too. It is what it is. Plus they don’t have a lot of team speed. So what? We’re stuck for now.

Coaching is all about putting your players in the best situations to succeed. To me it's never about one or two players, unless the one is a super duper uber star. With a roster that goes 9 deep I think we'd be better off trying to create havoc all over the court rather than relying on shaky rebounding.

 

[AZOrange]

I want and expect somebody with more of a track record than that.
If we hire somebody who has never been a successful NCAA head coach before, then Wildhack will have failed at his job. If there's one thing we should have learned from the football side, it's not to hire coordinators who have never done the head coaching gig before. Organizing a program is much differernt from being just one of the coaches. The administrative and media parts of the job are not something I want some guy to try to learn on the job. This is a big time job. Get a big time (within reason) coach.

My list - taking into account that some (or nearly all) of these guys have jobs - would include these candidates.

Buzz Williams - seems to love the Orange, has terrific experience
Mark Schmidt - St. Bonaventure
Archie Miller (yes, he just started at Indiana, but JB won't be leaving for another 3 years)
Chris Collins if he doesn't get the Duke job when K retires
Sean Miller, when he is fired from Arizona. The guy can recruit and his teams are fun to watch.
Greg Marshall is getting a little old and is currently making over $3M, but he might be a Dino type of hire who might like a shot at the big time to finish his career.
King Rice - doing some nice things at Monmouth, although it has taken him a while to get it going
Mark Turgeon - terrific recruiter, not such a great game coach.

Look I love ya Matty but that’s the worst short list for this job I’ve ever seen.

 

[AZOrange]

Mike's not coming back. We treated him horribly.

That’s just made up nonsense.

 

[Edfromsodus]

Ed, how many consecutive seasons of mediocre/on-the-bubble basketball would it take for you to support a coaching change? We're at Year 5. Would it take 7 years, 10 years, 15 years? Honestly curious. What's the cut-off for you?

2 final fours in 6 years is certainly not mediocrity my friend

 

[SoBeCuse]

Coaching is all about putting your players in the best situations to succeed. To me it's never about one or two players, unless the one is a super duper uber star. With a roster that goes 9 deep I think we'd be better off trying to create havoc all over the court rather than relying on shaky rebounding.

Uh, not following. Create havoc? Full on Pitino aggressive style? Would be fun but this team doesn’t have the personnel/horses or the speed for that.

 

[manleyzoo]

Uh, not following. Create havoc? Full on Pitino aggressive style? Would be fun but this team doesn’t have the personnel/horses or the speed for that.

Yes it would be fun. Maybe JB should take a lesson or three from HCDB. How do we know that this team doesn't have the horses or the speed for that? The old ball coach has let them do it, what, maybe twice all season. And hardly ever unless it's in desperation. It's pretty obvious we are better in transition. Got to give a few to get a few.

 

[br801]

Yes it would be fun. Maybe JB should take a lesson or three from HCDB. How do we know that this team doesn't have the horses or the speed for that? The old ball coach has let them do it, what, maybe twice all season. And hardly ever unless it's in desperation. It's pretty obvious we are better in transition. Got to give a few to get a few.

I would think JB has watched these guys push the tempo in practice (and maybe even has coached them a bit in that regard), and is not exactly thrilled with what he is seeing there, and is not comfortable turning them loose for long stretches in competitive games. Just speculation, though.

 

[Oakland]

No chat room today?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

If you’d like to quote my response and show me where I did say that, I’d appreciate it. Tough to respond to what I said a year ago when I don’t see it.

That being said, he has the ability to be a great coach for a game or a stretch. I just question his ability to do it for an extended period and over the course of a season. We should not be on the bubble this year. Bottom line. And unless something drastic happens in the next 3 months, we will be. Also, the 5-year trend gives me all the evidence I need.

Here you go. Last March he was a great coach. No mention of any troublesome five-year trend. No buts. No caveats. Just a great coach. Full stop.

12 games later he is over the hill and it is time for a change.

Last March he was a great coach. Nine months later he can only do it a for a single game or stretch of games.

So, I ask you yet again, what has changed in the last twelve games that takes him from one extreme to the other?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Last season's Sweet 16 was a mirage, just like the Final Four a few years earlier.
Those teams were clearly flawed. It was only the defense that created that success.
And once teams get experience playing against the zone, it is less intimidating. It's built for the NCAAs.

Flawed team overachieving? Getting a team to be much more than the sum of its parts?

Generally, that is called really good coaching. Here, it is called a mirage and we should pretend it didn't happen.

Team underachieves - all on the coach.
Team overachieves - pot luck.

 

[ORRange]

Look I love ya Matty but that’s the worst short list for this job I’ve ever seen.

And then some.

 

[OrangeDW]

2 final fours in 6 years is certainly not mediocrity my friend

What about going into a year with Autry Jr. as the projected starting PG? “Oh my head”, amiright?

 

[SUFan44]

Here you go. Last March he was a great coach. No mention of any troublesome five-year trend. No buts. No caveats. Just a great coach. Full stop.

12 games later he is over the hill and it is time for a change.

Last March he was a great coach. Nine months later he can only do it a for a single game or stretch of games.

So, I ask you yet again, what has changed in the last twelve games that takes him from one extreme to the other?
View attachment 148773

“He’s a great coach but I’m sick of this.”

You are taking a lot of liberties with my words and ignoring the obvious caveat. That being I’m sick of us losing our top recruits and being on the bubble every single year.

Try again.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Flawed team overachieving? Getting a team to be much more than the sum of its parts?

Generally, that is called really good coaching. Here, it is called a mirage and we should pretend it didn't happen.

Team underachieves - all on the coach.
Team overachieves - pot luck.

I don’t necessarily disagree but the coach recruited the “parts” and squeaking into the tournament as a double digit seed and going on a run isn’t sustainable.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

“He’s a great coach but I’m sick of this.”

You are taking a lot of liberties with my words and ignoring the obvious caveat. That being I’m sick of us losing our top recruits and being on the bubble every single year.

Try again.

Last March, you thought JB did one of his best coaching jobs ever. Nine months later, you think he cannot coach anymore and it's time for him to go. Makes total sense.

A mere three months ago, you were convinced we were headed back to the glory days of 2009-10. Now, the guy has lost it and you want him to step aside. No idea how you could possibly have thought we could be headed back to a #1 seed with a guy at the helm who cannot coach anymore. Please explain that one to me.

In fact, you were so bullish on the team that you went out and put money down on them to win the NC. Only a blithering idiot would bet on a team that is led by a guy who can no longer coach, right? But, I'm sure you have a great explanation as to why a team with a lousy coach is a good bet to win it all. Cannot wait to hear it.

The bottom line is that you are just another in an unfortunately way-too-long line of posters who act like petulant children having a temper tantrum when things start to go sideways.

 

[br801]

Last March, you thought JB did one of his best coaching jobs ever. Nine months later, you think he cannot coach anymore and it's time for him to go. Makes total sense.

View attachment 148800



A mere three months ago, you were convinced we were headed back to the glory days of 2009-10. Now, the guy has lost it and you want him to step aside. No idea how you could possibly have thought we could be headed back to a #1 seed with a guy at the helm who cannot coach anymore. Please explain that one to me.

View attachment 148799


In fact, you were so bullish on the team that you went out and put money down on them to win the NC. Only a blithering idiot would bet on a team that is led by a guy who can no longer coach, right? But, I'm sure you have a great explanation as to why a team with a lousy coach is a good bet to win it all. Cannot wait to hear it.

View attachment 148798



The bottom line is that you are just another in an unfortunately way-too-long line of posters who act like petulant children having a temper tantrum when things start to go sideways.

Ouch.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The problem is, almost assuredly, you will never have this consistent level of success again.
Indiana, UCLA, Georgetown, St.John's, etc. Most schools with iconic coaches can't continue the success, after the change.
Even Louisville and Kentucky struggled for long periods until the spent huge dollars to bring in already successful coaches.
Kansas and UNC have been exceptions, (there may be others) and even UNC had a couple of down years before they got Roy to come back home.

 

[SUFan44]

Last March, you thought JB did one of his best coaching jobs ever. Nine months later, you think he cannot coach anymore and it's time for him to go. Makes total sense.

View attachment 148800



A mere three months ago, you were convinced we were headed back to the glory days of 2009-10. Now, the guy has lost it and you want him to step aside. No idea how you could possibly have thought we could be headed back to a #1 seed with a guy at the helm who cannot coach anymore. Please explain that one to me.

View attachment 148799


In fact, you were so bullish on the team that you went out and put money down on them to win the NC. Only a blithering idiot would bet on a team that is led by a guy who can no longer coach, right? But, I'm sure you have a great explanation as to why a team with a lousy coach is a good bet to win it all. Cannot wait to hear it.

View attachment 148798



The bottom line is that you are just another in an unfortunately way-too-long line of posters who act like petulant children having a temper tantrum when things start to go sideways.

No sense even explaining because I"m a petulant child. I was bullish on the team prior to the season. As everyone should have been. A message board is a place for fans to vent, to display their frustrations and to express opinions. I have an opinion. Nowhere in my original post did I say he couldn't coach. I said a change needed to be made. Whether that's a change in coaching staff or a change in leadership, the program has become stale. Can that change over the next three months? I sure as heck hope so. But after losing two straight home games to Old Dominion and Buffalo at home, it's clear that we aren't the team we should be. Even if you want to throw in the point guard excuse. No way this team should ever lose to Old Dominion at home. Ever.

Also, I will say this. The prior 3-4 years, expectations were not the same as they were prior to this year. We have a veteran team with all 5 starters back for the first time in forever. And we have had our worst non-conference season in a long time, including a home loss to Old Dominion -- which is when the original post was made. I am frustrated and expressed those frustrations. And a lot of people agreed with me. So what does that tell you?

 

[CousCuse]

No sense even explaining because I"m a petulant child. I was bullish on the team prior to the season. As everyone should have been. A message board is a place for fans to vent, to display their frustrations and to express opinions. I have an opinion. Nowhere in my original post did I say he couldn't coach. I said a change needed to be made. Whether that's a change in coaching staff or a change in leadership, the program has become stale. Can that change over the next three months? I sure as heck hope so. But after losing two straight home games to Old Dominion and Buffalo at home, it's clear that we aren't the team we should be. Even if you want to throw in the point guard excuse. No way this team should ever lose to Old Dominion at home. Ever.

Also, I will say this. The prior 3-4 years, expectations were not the same as they were prior to this year. We have a veteran team with all 5 starters back for the first time in forever. And we have had our worst non-conference season in a long time, including a home loss to Old Dominion -- which is when the original post was made. I am frustrated and expressed those frustrations. And a lot of people agreed with me. So what does that tell you?

Old Dominion is a good team. They are a high mid-major and should win the CUSA and make the tourney. You watched the game, they have length, athletes and a seasoned coach who led UVA to the tourney 5 times and went as far as the elite8.

 

[orangecuse]

No sense even explaining because I"m a petulant child. I was bullish on the team prior to the season. As everyone should have been. A message board is a place for fans to vent, to display their frustrations and to express opinions. I have an opinion. Nowhere in my original post did I say he couldn't coach. I said a change needed to be made. Whether that's a change in coaching staff or a change in leadership, the program has become stale. Can that change over the next three months? I sure as heck hope so. But after losing two straight home games to Old Dominion and Buffalo at home, it's clear that we aren't the team we should be. Even if you want to throw in the point guard excuse. No way this team should ever lose to Old Dominion at home. Ever.

Also, I will say this. The prior 3-4 years, expectations were not the same as they were prior to this year. We have a veteran team with all 5 starters back for the first time in forever. And we have had our worst non-conference season in a long time, including a home loss to Old Dominion -- which is when the original post was made. I am frustrated and expressed those frustrations. And a lot of people agreed with me. So what does that tell you?

I find it interesting that in the past 3 years, JB has commented twice publicly (something he hadn't really ever done in the past) on how much he liked his team and how good they'd be, so he also played a significant part in spewing those lofty expectations. No matter how one attempts to slice it, he's completely culpable of the product he has placed on the court. With the largest being, the inferior recruits he recruited to play the 5 spot at this level of hoops.

 

[SUFan44]

Old Dominion is a good team. They are a high mid-major and should win the CUSA and make the tourney. You watched the game, they have length, athletes and a seasoned coach who led UVA to the tourney 5 times and went as far as the elite8.

If you’re a top team in the ACC, and one worthy of a top 4 NCAA seed, you don’t lose that game. ODU lost to St. Joe’s by 15 points and to a Northern Iowa team that just lost to Stony Brook. They are a good mid-major team but with 5 starters back and playing at home, you don’t lose that game.

 

[orangecuse]

If you’re a top team in the ACC, and one worthy of a top 4 NCAA seed, you don’t lose that game. ODU lost to St. Joe’s by 15 points and to a Northern Iowa team that just lost to Stony Brook. They are a good mid-major team but with 5 starters back and playing at home, you don’t lose that game.

Not to mention being up 10 at the half.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

No sense even explaining because I"m a petulant child. I was bullish on the team prior to the season. As everyone should have been. A message board is a place for fans to vent, to display their frustrations and to express opinions. I have an opinion. Nowhere in my original post did I say he couldn't coach. I said a change needed to be made. Whether that's a change in coaching staff or a change in leadership, the program has become stale. Can that change over the next three months? I sure as heck hope so. But after losing two straight home games to Old Dominion and Buffalo at home, it's clear that we aren't the team we should be. Even if you want to throw in the point guard excuse. No way this team should ever lose to Old Dominion at home. Ever.

Also, I will say this. The prior 3-4 years, expectations were not the same as they were prior to this year. We have a veteran team with all 5 starters back for the first time in forever. And we have had our worst non-conference season in a long time, including a home loss to Old Dominion -- which is when the original post was made. I am frustrated and expressed those frustrations. And a lot of people agreed with me. So what does that tell you?

Ok...let's take your opinion to the real world. You are an adviser to the university.

You walk into Wildhack's office tomorrow and tell him, "John, I know that Boeheim is coming off one of his finest coaching jobs last year but the team is really under-performing this year and we need to seriously think about making a change."

This is what you are advocating for.

Would you do that?

What do you think his reaction would be?

 

[CousCuse]

If you’re a top team in the ACC, and one worthy of a top 4 NCAA seed, you don’t lose that game. ODU lost to St. Joe’s by 15 points and to a Northern Iowa team that just lost to Stony Brook. They are a good mid-major team but with 5 starters back and playing at home, you don’t lose that game.

St. Joe's is one of their old rivals from the A10, like when we play a BigEast team all bets are off. UNI has been a very potent mid-major for at least a decade and for some reason, they played ODU 2 games in a row. Also Stony is the class of the America East. None of these teams are pushovers and will knockout some big dogs in the tourney. After the Frank injury,the team was slumping and they caught us at the right time. I think we would crush them now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I find it interesting that in the past 3 years, JB has commented twice publicly (something he hadn't really ever done in the past) on how much he liked his team and how good they'd be, so he also played a significant part in spewing those lofty expectations. No matter how one attempts to slice it, he's completely culpable of the product he has placed on the court. With the largest being, the inferior recruits he recruited to play the 5 spot at this level of hoops.

Call it what you want, but both centers were 4 star recruits.