Sounds like Hacket's genius was on full display

[OrangePA]

I'm well aware of Hackett's resume or else I wouldn't make such a statement. And just because the guy was 'bred' to be a coach doesn't make him good. I also doubt he knows anymore about football than any other Coordinator or proven QB coach.

Here's his resume: We are basically his firt gig and he's doing the two most important things - OC/QB

2011-Present Offensive Coordinator/QB/TE - Syracuse
2010 Quarterbacks - Syracuse

2008-09 Offensive Quality Control Coach - Buffalo Bills
2006-07 Offensive Quality Control Coach - Tampa Bay

2005 Recruiting Coordinator/Specialist - Stanford
2004 Offensive/Defensive Coordinator ASSISTANT - Stanford
2003 Offensive ASSISTANT - Stanford
Spring 2003 ASSISTANT LB Coach - Cal Davis

In my opinion that resume does not qualify you to be the Offensive Coordinator for a BCS program. Those assistant positions are volunteer and the Offensive QA jobs don't mean didly to being an O-Coordinator. The guy hasn't even Coordinated a D3 offense before and while I COMPLETELY agree that execution is a HUGE problem with our offense that doesn't excuse the person who's running it.

If you get any coach more Ashton Broyld's they'll look like a genius. I'm more impressed when a coach is able to move the football and score points without needing these types of players. Teams like Toledo don't have any Ashton Broyld's but they run systems that are more cohesive which the players CAN execute.

And to your last question OP, the only thing I need to know if Hackett can recruit or not are the results. Period. I don't care how great he is sitting on a living room couch, or how personable he is on the phone. The results speak for themselves, he gets a big fat zero.

Do you have any idea what an offensive quality control coach does in the NFL?

To be successful in the job you have to know and understand offensive schemes and have to be able to watch film and defensive tendencies - it is the essence of offensive football.

Hackett did it for four years. And he grew up learning from a very respected offensive mind - Paul Hackett.

He also coached at Stanford for three years so the notion that this is his first job is obviously incorrect.

I guess it's the "coordinator" title that you're referencing.

That could mean something but it is not necessarily an indication of anything.

Andy Reid was never a coordinator before he became the HC in Philadelphia.

I have no doubt that you have never met Hackett and have absolutely no idea what he knows or how he teaches.

You're basing your assessment on his age and how you view his resume.

Doug Marrone interviewed the guy and worked with the guy for a year before he named Hackett the OC.

DM means business - this is his football life. He has already demonstrated that he will fire assistant coaches whom he feels do not measure up.

If he feels that NH is a solid OC, I have no basis for arguing.

And, based on what I have seen, NH has done very well with the talent he has been given.

Nassib is a solid kid, but he does not bring all that much athletic ability to the table - and NH has squeezed an awful lot out of him - including an eight win season and a bowl win.

Hackett will be fine.

 

[orangenirvana]

It's funny that so many criticize Hackett in this post when he wasn't calling the plays. Half of what you saw wasn't even in our playbook. So don't get all bent out of shape, it was some coaches and players having some fun.

Good to know, although for me it's not so much about the play calling as it is the overall system and lack of understanding as to how to put the players he has available in the best position to put points on the board - something he has severely struggled with since he was strangely promoted to OC.

 

[orangenirvana]

And, based on what I have seen, NH has done very well with the talent he has been given.

Nassib is a solid kid, but he does not bring all that much athletic ability to the table - and NH has squeezed an awful lot out of him - including an eight win season and a bowl win.

Hackett will be fine.

Based on what you have seen? What have you been watching? Syracuse's offense is one of the very worst in the country under Hackett.

I love how you have no problem throwing the amateur athletes completely under the bus, but the paid coaches should be off limits when it comes to criticism. Nassib has good physical attributes, excellent character and high intelligence and work ethic. And yet, it's his fault that he has shown little improvement since his redshirt frosh season? The quarterbacks coach and OC gets a free pass? Why?

And if Nassib is so limited in ability like you say then why is he still the starter by a mile? Marrone has had four years to find an upgrade over Robinson's quarterback and he hasn't been able to get it done. Marrone shouldn't hear criticism for that?

 

[IthacaMatt]

So you lead with a pretty provocative statement and then immediately back off with the logical observation that one can draw very few conclusions from a spring game. I don't get it.

And then you state that there has been no development at any position on the offense.

I don't know what you're watching.

Kobena looks much improved. Macky looks improved. Foy looks improved. Jerome Smith looks much improved. PT Gulley looks improved. Max Beaulieu even looks improved at TE.

And, in three years Nassib has improved a great deal. Clearly he is no Marino or Cam Newton, but has become a steady manager of the offense. He has won 13 games in two years including a bowl game. I think the comment you have included as a suggestion is probably accurate - the coaches have squeezed just about all that can be squeezed out of Ryan Nassib.

If Mackey played well, then that's important, but I wonder how you can say that when we couldn't run the ball at all.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm not sure I have seen this movie before except maybe back in the early 1980s when Coach Mac was developing the program.

Recall that in 1986 there was the "Sack Mac Pack."

And then 1987 happened pretty much under all of our noses.

I see a program that is developing - that has brought in more and more athletes. I don't think we saw that under Robinson.

I was thinking about that the other day and I was wondering...how was our SOS in 87? PSU was down that year and it just seems to me it was a littler weaker for 87. If SU continues to have extremely difficult schedules in this day and age of winning 9+ games or recruits don't look as much, will we be able to pull off that type of thing? Even as a 10-2?

I agree that SU is getting more and more athletes and the defense is a lot faster than any late P or Robinson era as far as I can see.

 

[OrangePA]

I was thinking about that the other day and I was wondering...how was our SOS in 87? PSU was down that year and it just seems to me it was a littler weaker for 87. If SU continues to have extremely difficult schedules in this day and age of winning 9+ games or recruits don't look as much, will we be able to pull off that type of thing? Even as a 10-2?

I agree that SU is getting more and more athletes and the defense is a lot faster than any late P or Robinson era as far as I can see.

At the time I thought that maybe the record was a reflection of the schedule.

And that may be to a certain extent.

But look at all the players on that team who moved to the next level - it was a very good team filled with very good players.

 

[OrangePA]

If Mackey played well, then that's important, but I wonder how you can say that when we couldn't run the ball at all.

I watched him.

He handled himself pretty well.

 

[SmilinBob]

At the time I thought that maybe the record was a reflection of the schedule.

And that may be to a certain extent.

But look at all the players on that team who moved to the next level - it was a very good team filled with very good players.

Very true. I just think that SU's schedules are too tough to really build up some good momentum and going into the ACC and playing 9 conference games just makes it that much harder. I'd love to hear what recruits say about this stuff when they talk to Marrone/staff and what they say.

 

[OrangePA]

Based on what you have seen? What have you been watching? Syracuse's offense is one of the very worst in the country under Hackett.

I love how you have no problem throwing the amateur athletes completely under the bus, but the paid coaches should be off limits when it comes to criticism. Nassib has good physical attributes, excellent character and high intelligence and work ethic. And yet, it's his fault that he has shown little improvement since his redshirt frosh season? The quarterbacks coach and OC gets a free pass? Why?

And if Nassib is so limited in ability like you say then why is he still the starter by a mile? Marrone has had four years to find an upgrade over Robinson's quarterback and he hasn't been able to get it done. Marrone shouldn't hear criticism for that?

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

It's just not true that Nassib has shown no improvement.

He is a much better QB today than he was two years ago. What do you want Hackett to do? Get Ryan to grow three inches? Get Ryan to run a 4.4 forty? Get Ryan to increase his arm strength to John Elway dimensions?

My goodness. I think your expectations are quite unrealistic.

And it's not true that I am "throwing Nassib under the bus" I am recognizing that he has probably reached his potential - something very few players do. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

It may be that he runs the ball better than I have presumed. It may be true that Marrone instructed him over the past two years not to run - because of the concern for injury and lack of depth at the position.

So, maybe this year Ryan will show us more with his feet - it sounds like that is what Marrone wants him to do.

We will see if there is more room for growth in that regard.

But now you're trying to change the subject to a recruting issue. Lets see how that goes. I gather though - given the change in direction of your post - that you are now just looking for a reason to criticize the coaches.

Well, go at it.

 

[OrangePA]

Very true. I just think that SU's schedules are too tough to really build up some good momentum and going into the ACC and playing 9 conference games just makes it that much harder. I'd love to hear what recruits say about this stuff when they talk to Marrone/staff and what they say.

I think you're right that the schedules nowadays are much more difficult than they were in the 1980s.

 

[SWC75]

At the time I thought that maybe the record was a reflection of the schedule.

And that may be to a certain extent.

But look at all the players on that team who moved to the next level - it was a very good team filled with very good players.

I did this post back before the 2009 draft. I'll get around to updating it someday but it covers the period we are talking about:

The subject came up of how many future pros were on certain SU teams. The SU media guide lists the Orangemen who were drafted by the NFL or signed as free agents in each year. Some of these guys were probably junior college transfers and a few may have jumped to the pros early but, to take a quick look at the situation, I decided to simply add up the total players where drafted or free agent signees over a four year period to see how many future pros were on each team’s roster. As a further disclaimer, being on the roster doesn’t mean you played a lot and being a draftee or free agent signee doesn’t mean you became an NFL starter. But I suspect this provides a pretty good map of the year by year level of talent at SU, for whatever arguments anyone wishes to make relating to the talent level at SU in any particular year or era. I decided to start with 1972, the first year freshmen could play varsity ball. For those who have the media guide, the players listed under 1973 were the ones drafted or signed after the 1973 season. The talent level is this the total of the players listed under 1973, 1974, 1975 and 1976. The last team listed in 2004, not because that was Coach P’s last year but simply because the section ends with 2008, the last year that would have had player listed who would have been on the roster in 2004. We would need the 2009 list to complete the record for 2005.
1972: 11 players were drafted or signed by the pros in 1973,74, 75 or 1976

1973: 10 players in 1974-77
1974: 10 players in 1975-78
1975: 9 players in 1976-79
1976: 8 players in 1977-80
1977: 6 players in 1978-81
1978: 9 players in 1979-82
1979: 10 players in 1980-83
1980: 9 players in 1981-84
1981: 10 players in 1982-85
1982: 12 players in 1983-86
1983: 13 players in 1984-87
1984: 17 players in 1985-88
1985: 23 players in 1986-89
1986: 26 players in 1987-90
1987: 32 players in 1988-91
1988: 28 players in 1989-92
1989: 31 players in 1990-93
1990: 33 players in 1991-94
1991: 31 players in 1992-95
1992: 35 players in 1993-96
1993: 32 players in 1994-97
1994: 30 players in 1995-98
1995: 33 players in 1996-99
1996: 35 players in 1997-00
1997: 33 players in 1998-01
1998: 36 players in 1999-02
1999: 31 players in 2000-03
2000: 32 players in 2001-04
2001: 31 players in 2002-05
2002: 29 players in 2003-06
2003: 31 players in 2004-07
2004: 27 players in 2005-07

You can see the build-up to '87 but also that subsequent teams were comparable in terms of eventual NFL players.

 

[SWC75]

I think you're right that the schedules nowadays are much more difficult than they were in the 1980s.

The schedules were very difficult in 2001-2004 as we loaded up on big-time competion to try to fill the Dome. One year, (1984), we played 8 teams that wound up on bowl games at a time when there were far fewer bowl games. I think it retarrded Coach Mac's development of the program as we had some teams that might have gone 8-3 that went 6-5 instead because of the schedule. It was less taxing after that and that helped the team improve. But the height of the Sac Mac Pac was in 1986 when we started 0-4.

I certainly agree that we need to be patient here and that it's very important to this program for Doug Marrone to be a success. We don't want to fire three coaches in a decade and we don't want to starting over again as we join the ACC. if we do, we could be bottom feeders for years. we've got keep building on what we've got.

 

[orangenirvana]

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

It's just not true that Nassib has shown no improvement.

He is a much better QB today than he was two years ago. What do you want Hackett to do? Get Ryan to grow three inches? Get Ryan to run a 4.4 forty? Get Ryan to increase his arm strength to John Elway dimensions?

My goodness. I think your expectations are quite unrealistic.

And it's not true that I am "throwing Nassib under the bus" I am recognizing that he has probably reached his potential - something very few players do. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

It may be that he runs the ball better than I have presumed. It may be true that Marrone instructed him over the past two years not to run - because of the concern for injury and lack of depth at the position.

So, maybe this year Ryan will show us more with his feet - it sounds like that is what Marrone wants him to do.

We will see if there is more room for growth in that regard.

But now you're trying to change the subject to a recruting issue. Lets see how that goes. I gather though - given the change in direction of your post - that you are now just looking for a reason to criticize the coaches.

Well, go at it.

Ugh, give me a break.

I'm dead wrong about what? I never said Nassib "has shown no improvement." So what am I wrong about? Did Syracuse not have one of the worst offenses in the nation in 2010 and 2011?

Nassib has sufficient height, speed, and arm strength for a BCS level quarterback. This isn't Rudy we're talking about. He gets good grades. By all accounts he works hard and has a great attitude. So why did he struggle in 2011?

I wanted to see improvement from Nassib in 2011. Those are unfair expectations? He didn't get shorter, weaker, or dumber. So why did he and the entire offense struggle so much?

You're assuming that it's because Nassib has already reached his limited potential. Fair enough. Then why are none of the other quarterbacks progressing? Why haven't any been able to overtake Nassib?

I'm not changing the subject. You're dodging my questions.

 

[OrangePA]

Ugh, give me a break.

I'm dead wrong about what? I never said Nassib "has shown no improvement." So what am I wrong about? Did Syracuse not have one of the worst offenses in the nation in 2010 and 2011?

Nassib has sufficient height, speed, and arm strength for a BCS level quarterback. This isn't Rudy we're talking about. He gets good grades. By all accounts he works hard and has a great attitude. So why did he struggle in 2011?

I wanted to see improvement from Nassib in 2011. Those are unfair expectations? He didn't get shorter, weaker, or dumber. So why did he and the entire offense struggle so much?

You're assuming that it's because Nassib has already reached his limited potential. Fair enough. Then why are none of the other quarterbacks progressing? Why haven't any been able to overtake Nassib?

I'm not changing the subject. You're dodging my questions.

I guess that's where you and I disagree.

I don't think Ryan "struggled" in 2011.

He set season passing records in almost every category.

The problem is that without Delone Carter, Marcus Sales and a few others he didn't have all that much help.

Again, as I have said, as disappointing as the offense might have been, it was the defense that was the real culprit last year - and that was the producte of having to replace seven very solid starters from 2010.

I don't think I dodged the question. I thought the question dealt with recruiting success at the QB level. I guess I must have misread your post.

So, now the issue is the development of the other QBs.

Okay. I don't think anybody should be surprised that nobody right now appears ready to unseat a two year starter - and a senior going into 2012 - especially a guy who as noted above set all sorts of passing records last season. In short, Ryan has produced a bit more than you think he has, though he is not a great college player. He is good enough though to retain his position at this point. And that should not be all that surprising.

We did not see Terrell Hunt this spring so we really don't know where he is at this point. According to some he will play at some point this year, so the jury is still out on his development. I guess we'll see perhaps where Loeb and Kinder are in the fall.

Loeb was a rather late recruit - I'm not sure anybody expected a lot out of him, though I could be wrong.

Kinder has a lot of work to do. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[xc84]

It may be that he runs the ball better than I have presumed. It may be true that Marrone instructed him over the past two years not to run - because of the concern for injury and lack of depth at the position.

So, maybe this year Ryan will show us more with his feet - it sounds like that is what Marrone wants him to do.

We will see if there is more room for growth in that regard.

I think Nassib has the speed to run (as a QB). I think his biggest problem with running was determining when to run and when to stay with the pass. There isn't much time to decide and the guys that have an instinct for that are some of the best QB runners. I have hope that with designated running plays, the decision will be already made and Nassib will be able to use his feet better.

 

[orangenirvana]

I guess that's where you and I disagree.

I don't think Ryan "struggled" in 2011.

He set season passing records in almost every category.

The problem is that without Delone Carter, Marcus Sales and a few others he didn't have all that much help.

Again, as I have said, as disappointing as the offense might have been, it was the defense that was the real culprit last year - and that was the producte of having to replace seven very solid starters from 2010.

"Struggled" is a relative term, but imho leading an offense to a second-to-last place finish in nearly every offensive category in the worst BCS conference in the country is what I would call "struggling."

Nassib finished fourth in the conference with a 129.9 QB Rating (#65 among FBS teams). That was up from 124.2 in 2010 (#80 nationally).

So it looks like he improved...certainly not drastically, but a little bit.

What's interesting to me is that our QB puts up stats good enough for the top half of the conference in nearly every category, and yet the offense finishes near last.

So the evidence suggests that it's not so much a QB development issue with Hackett as it is an overall coordination (system development, scheme, playcalling, game adjustments, etc.) issue.

 

[javadoc]

To add some levity, at some point we are going to have to acknowledge Hackett's genius. If he is spectacularly unqualified and underperforming at a six-figure job, yet keeps getting brought back year on year, he has me beat hands down in the craftiness department. And a lot of the rest of us on here, I'd wager.

 

[OrangePA]

"Struggled" is a relative term, but imho leading an offense to a second-to-last place finish in nearly every offensive category in the worst BCS conference in the country is what I would call "struggling."

Nassib finished fourth in the conference with a 129.9 QB Rating (#65 among FBS teams). That was up from 124.2 in 2010 (#80 nationally).

So it looks like he improved...certainly not drastically, but a little bit.

What's interesting to me is that our QB puts up stats good enough for the top half of the conference in nearly every category, and yet the offense finishes near last.

So the evidence suggests that it's not so much a QB development issue with Hackett as it is an overall coordination (system development, scheme, playcalling, game adjustments, etc.) issue.

It's hard to keep track of your criticisms of Hackett. Now we're moving beyond the QB position I guess.

The offense must get better, no doubt - I agree with that - but it was good enough to win two more games and go bowling.

Clearly our lack of a break-away WR and break-away RB last year hurt. And because of that lack of HR threat the offense was forced to drive the ball over 10-15 plays to score TDs. That need created more roon for error and that hurt - see the last drive against UConn.

If you were at the spring game on Saturday you saw what we need more of on offense - talented, physical, fast and agile athletes like Ashton Broyld.

More players like Ashton will certainly make Hackett a better coach.

 

[kirbivore]

I did this post back before the 2009 draft. I'll get around to updating it someday but it covers the period we are talking about:

The subject came up of how many future pros were on certain SU teams.

To elaborate further, how many of those actually made gameday rosters? IMO it doesn't count unless you make the 53 man roster. Some posters here in the past have inflated their SU to NFL numbers using practice squad players in furtherance of their agendas

 

[SWC75]

To elaborate further, how many of those actually made gameday rosters? IMO it doesn't count unless you make the 53 man roster. Some posters here in the past have inflated their SU to NFL numbers using practice squad players in furtherance of their agendas

I just looked at the SU media guide in the "Orange In professional Football" section. Whatever their criteria were, that's what I used. Keep in mind that we are trying to use this to evalute the overall talent level of the college team they were on. A practice squad player in the NFL was a good college player.