St. Joseph's Postgame

[Starman]

Was the offense to just give JJ the ball or did JJ not share the ball and return to his bad habits? I think the latter.

Our offense was butt. I can hardly blame JJ for trying to make something happen.

 

[Orangezoo]

This game did not help our NET rating. We dropped to 81 after an 8 point win...we have no chance to make tourney.

Wins and losses will determine whether we make the tournament. They will take care of the end Net ranking too. Right now it just is about hype. We are still 67 in Ken Pom 59 ESPN BPI, 55 Bart Torvik and 65 Evan Miya.

When you model outcomes you look at variance and trends. Right now 4 major ranking systems/models have us quite a ways above NET. That’s important and speaks to more accuracy of where we are than just being lazy relying on the NET and over reacting.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

we have no chance to make tourney.

So will you continue to watch/follow? If so, why?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If the current staff does not know how to teach proper free throw technique, then Autry needs to get someone in that does. What is taking him so long to do this?!

It is mental with most of them. Red neeeds to bring in Dr. Sharon from Ted Lasso.

 

[orangecuse]

They played the acc bowl show for the 56 time, should have been a 7 pm game.

Ha, what a joke! I flipped the channel over from what I was watching last night to the ACC Network about 10 of 9 or so, and within a few seconds they displayed a graphic showing upcoming events. One, was a game that was already played the day before, and our game coming up 'tomorrow.'

 

[bballbeadle]

Okay, I know this is pointless but my daughter can’t go to the game tomorrow because of a Christmas party and three other people I asked couldn’t because Christmas. Phooey on Christmas. The ticket would be free, they are great seats, but you would have to tolerate me looking like a deranged elf. PM me.

 

[23Zone]

Speaking about Starling, it was an absolute bone-headed play in the first half when he made that completely unnecessary behind the back pass on a fast break. Instead of getting an easy layup it resulted in a three-point shot for St Joes. 5 point swing. That's not a play a Senior Captain should be making.

 

[23Zone]

And I love me some Kiyan but I would like to see him play a little bit less like he is Kobe. Made some ill advised shots yesterday without involving his teammates. Work in progress.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In addition, he put the ball on the floor several times. He really should not be doing that.

Here’s a crazy stat. He has played over 70 minutes this year has yet to make a basket, make a free throw, or even attempt a shot!

He is a better defender than what we had in the middle last year, but that’s not enough.

When Donnie comes back, White needs to play more of those minutes.

Agreed. It's WILD to have gotten that many minutes and to have not scored on accident.

 

[23Zone]

Agreed. It's WILD to have gotten that many minutes and to have not scored on accident.

Must have an allergy to offense

 

[newmexicuse]

A few thoughts, but before I get into detail, I need to say that I hope that Freeman is a bona fide difference maker because this team badly needs that type of player. My thoughts:

1. Kyle is far and away our best player particularly when he can make freebies at a decent rate as he did last night. Team needs to get him the ball more down low and let him work. There were several times when he had his man pinned and was ignored even as he called for the ball. Unacceptable. On D - 4 blocks and 2 steals and on the glass 11 boards including 4 O boards - great job !!!

2. Betsy runs hot and cold, but pending the return of Freeman, he is probably our best O player. But how in hell can a good three point shooter go 1 for 6 from the FT line ??? Same for Kingz who went 1 for 4. If these guys had made 7 or 8 for 10 instead of 2 for 10 game would have been a laugher.

3. Can anybody snare a rebound whose initials are not WK ?????

4. George was solid - 10 points and 3 steals, but man, I think he should be much better at creating. I never seem to see a deep drive and dish.

5. JJ has clearly not progressed from last season. He makes some plays, but overall is way more erratic than he should be.

6. Freshmen White and Kiyan both need to get a lot stronger. I am optimistic they will both take big steps next season, but I am pessimistic that they will be consistent factors this season. If Souare had just a little bit of O he would be an adequate backup to Kyle. Doubt he is good enough to start next season.

7. Fennell is clearly not ready yet and Zephir may be at a level above his skills.

8. Autry - team looks better than last season, but has a ways to go. Freeman remains the wildcard. Hopefully he comes back and proves he is big-time. Without him, I cant see making the NCAAs, with him, jury is out.

 

[CuseTG2003]

Offense overall and guard play specifically need to be much, much better. We run action that doesn't accomplish anything and wastes valuable time. Frustrating to watch.

Would like to see more Kingz at the 2 and Betsey at the 3 but worry Red's committed to playing JJ and Kiyan as much as possible. It sure seems that way.

 

[orangefog]

Okay, I know this is pointless but my daughter can’t go to the game tomorrow because of a Christmas party and three other people I asked couldn’t because Christmas. Phooey on Christmas. The ticket would be free, they are great seats, but you would have to tolerate me looking like a deranged elf. PM me.

So, game AND a show. I wish I lived closer, that would be a great night!!!

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Bad coaching
Bad energy
No discipline on the team
Out-rebounding by St. Joe's is bad

Kingz and Kyle were good. Betsy was good on offense.

Betsy, King and Kyle are the energy of the team - the opponent cannot win if they cannot score and the these guys are simply not interested in letting the opponent score - JJ is really important because he does not miss on any drives to his right - we really need George to be tougher and Kiyan too - Kiyan is just young but several times George looks like he gets blown by and other teams can take the ball from him - he’s a good player though - it would really help if we had Freeman - big guy from St Joes was having way too much fun as was the center for Tennessee

 

[orangefog]

Betsy, King and Kyle are the energy of the team - the opponent cannot win if they cannot score and the these guys are simply not interested in letting the opponent score - JJ is really important because he does not miss on any drives to his right - we really need George to be tougher and Kiyan too - Kiyan is just young but several times George looks like he gets blown by and other teams can take the ball from him - he’s a good player though - it would really help if we had Freeman - big guy from St Joes was having way too much fun as was the center for Tennessee

I would add Sadiq to that defensive group. I think George was better before JJ got back. They have to figure out how to play together.

 

[23Zone]

A few thoughts, but before I get into detail, I need to say that I hope that Freeman is a bona fide difference maker because this team badly needs that type of player. My thoughts:

1. Kyle is far and away our best player particularly when he can make freebies at a decent rate as he did last night. Team needs to get him the ball more down low and let him work. There were several times when he had his man pinned and was ignored even as he called for the ball. Unacceptable. On D - 4 blocks and 2 steals and on the glass 11 boards including 4 O boards - great job !!!

2. Betsy runs hot and cold, but pending the return of Freeman, he is probably our best O player. But how in hell can a good three point shooter go 1 for 6 from the FT line ??? Same for Kingz who went 1 for 4. If these guys had made 7 or 8 for 10 instead of 2 for 10 game would have been a laugher.

3. Can anybody snare a rebound whose initials are not WK ?????

4. George was solid - 10 points and 3 steals, but man, I think he should be much better at creating. I never seem to see a deep drive and dish.

5. JJ has clearly not progressed from last season. He makes some plays, but overall is way more erratic than he should be.

6. Freshmen White and Kiyan both need to get a lot stronger. I am optimistic they will both take big steps next season, but I am pessimistic that they will be consistent factors this season. If Souare had just a little bit of O he would be an adequate backup to Kyle. Doubt he is good enough to start next season.

7. Fennell is clearly not ready yet and Zephir may be at a level above his skills.

8. Autry - team looks better than last season, but has a ways to go. Freeman remains the wildcard. Hopefully he comes back and proves he is big-time. Without him, I cant see making the NCAAs, with him, jury is out.

Agree with everything. And I'll just add how disappointed I was to see such poor rebounding. You just can't get out rebounded like that, especially against a team like Saint Joe's. Pretty telling.

 

[23Zone]

Our offense was butt. I can hardly blame JJ for trying to make something happen.

George has got to be better. And for some reason he is just not very good on a fast break. Frankly I think us fans were expecting a lot more.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We are still 67 in Ken Pom 59 ESPN BPI, 55 Bart Torvik and 65 Evan Miya.

SU needs to get themselves up into the high 30s on Ken Pom to be something better than a bubble team. That's going to be a tough lift unless the offense improves significantly. There are a lot of good-ish teams in that 30-60 range and SU needs to separate themselves from the pack.

This is a neat tool on Torvik that people can you to graph the teams and pick and choose what to highlight. These are the top-80 teams based on Torvik's adjO and adjD (which is pretty similar to other metrics). People can see how clumped up that mushy middle is and all of those teams are going to be fighting for a tourney spot.

 

[Orangezoo]

SU needs to get themselves up into the high 30s on Ken Pom to be something better than a bubble team. That's going to be a tough lift unless the offense improves significantly. There are a lot of good-ish teams in that 30-60 range and SU needs to separate themselves from the pack.

This is a neat tool on Torvik that people can you to graph the teams and pick and choose what to highlight. These are the top-80 teams based on Torvik's adjO and adjD (which is pretty similar to other metrics). People can see how clumped up that mushy middle is and all of those teams are going to be fighting for a tourney spot.

View attachment 258023

No disagreement but I will say that that wins and losses will matter more than margins when all is said and done now that we are heading into conference play.

Hence 0 Q3/4 losses and 4 Q1 wins to me is a minimum if we want to make the tourney. The math will work out in our favor Net wise if we are sitting in that position.

Blowing out all 3 teams after Hofstra will push us back up too.

 

[orangepassion]

A few thoughts, but before I get into detail, I need to say that I hope that Freeman is a bona fide difference maker because this team badly needs that type of player. My thoughts:

1. Kyle is far and away our best player particularly when he can make freebies at a decent rate as he did last night. Team needs to get him the ball more down low and let him work. There were several times when he had his man pinned and was ignored even as he called for the ball. Unacceptable. On D - 4 blocks and 2 steals and on the glass 11 boards including 4 O boards - great job !!!

2. Betsy runs hot and cold, but pending the return of Freeman, he is probably our best O player. But how in hell can a good three point shooter go 1 for 6 from the FT line ??? Same for Kingz who went 1 for 4. If these guys had made 7 or 8 for 10 instead of 2 for 10 game would have been a laugher.

3. Can anybody snare a rebound whose initials are not WK ?????

4. George was solid - 10 points and 3 steals, but man, I think he should be much better at creating. I never seem to see a deep drive and dish.

5. JJ has clearly not progressed from last season. He makes some plays, but overall is way more erratic than he should be.

6. Freshmen White and Kiyan both need to get a lot stronger. I am optimistic they will both take big steps next season, but I am pessimistic that they will be consistent factors this season. If Souare had just a little bit of O he would be an adequate backup to Kyle. Doubt he is good enough to start next season.

7. Fennell is clearly not ready yet and Zephir may be at a level above his skills.

8. Autry - team looks better than last season, but has a ways to go. Freeman remains the wildcard. Hopefully he comes back and proves he is big-time. Without him, I cant see making the NCAAs, with him, jury is out.

A lot of excellent points. One thing I'd add was it was nice to see Betsy go to the basket a little. I don't remember seeing that before, but that would really help him and us if that continues.

 

[Jake]

Red made mention in the presser that a couple guys were dealing with sickness. Thinking Sadiq was one. He looked disinterested and lazy. Very unlike him

Grorge for sure and I think Kyle

 

[CardiacCuse]

Kingz is actually a good rebounder for a guard.

but theyre playing him at forward

would like to see: george, kingz, betsey, white, kyle lineup

but no

we NEVER have

 

[CardiacCuse]

Betsey and Kingz along with Kyle were our best players last night, but the first two have to be guys that make free throws being that they are our best shooters. If they go 8-10 we cover and the complaining here this morning isn't nearly as loud.

I thought Nait was mostly good too even though there was some complaining about him in the game thread. I thought JJ was pretty meh. Sadiq and Kiyan are freshmen so we should expect them to be up and down.

We missed 10 ft's in the second half alone.

it boggles my mind how these uber athletic players that are being paid to play basketball cannot reliably make an unguarded shot from the free throw line...and shoot similar percentages in live game situations from 3

its like some kind of epidemic that has spread throughout the team ...very odd

 

[CardiacCuse]

When I wrote some bigwig to complain, he said it was the ACC’s fault.

its a non conference game...tv slots be damned, this time slot is wack

Not much to be happy about but I really like to see teams struggling to make 3's against us for once. 19% to our 43% is going to win us alot of games on it's own.

So many games over the last few years where teams just just had the best shooting nights of their lives.

credit to red. this stat is so crucial and has been brutal the last years ...this is no accident. its the defense. proof switching from zone to man was worth it.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Interesting but not surprising that in Ken Pom (we are 67th) there is only one team ahead of us with a worse offensive efficiency rating, Seton Hall. Is it reasonable to think we could play meaningfully better offensive basketball when Freeman returns, say in the 60’s - 70’s and comparable defense?

If so, we’d slot up in the 40 spot overall. I’d be good with that given what I’ve seen (bubble squad).

is this the offense??? is this really it?

i feel like we're just wating for them to start running the actual offense...but maybe i shouldnt be holding my breath