Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

Alsacs said:
Palpetine won the episode 1-3 trilogy.
How is he the Buffalo Bills.
He started off a Senator and ended up as Supreme Dictator in episode 3.
He won that trilogy he wiped out 99% of the Jedi.

He lost in episode 6 and really episode 9 but it was just done poorly IMO.
JJ had a story for episodes 8-9. He though didn’t tell Johnson what to do he let him do what he wanted.
JJ had to clean up his mess in 9.
The story of 9 was 3 plots in 1 because of what happened in 8.
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i say he lost 1-3 because he did not get Anakin as intended, nor did he get his kids. thats a Loss.

Anakin lost the fight to Obi and then became the aforementioned slow moving robot. but yes, he did wipe out most of the Jedi, all except the most powerful one...maybe 2. Loss.

personally, yes he went from Senator to Supreme Dictator, but at what cost? he kept 'losing' to the Force.

i used the bills because they always made the big game, but lost.
 
The Holdo maneuver was just insane. It could be used by the rebels to put droids on a ship and take out the Death Star or any object. It made no sense.

Episode 8 has so many holes that JJ just tried his best to paint over it completely in Episode 9.
 
Alsacs said:
Keep defending 7-9 nobody is right or wrong.
Episode 8 hurt the franchise though.
The revenue expected for 9 was lower than projected. It’s still a success but 8 hurt the franchise.
Johnson killed Snoke off in 8 when JJ and Colin didn’t want that to happen. Johnson also was the one to create the Rose character and the wrote subplot on the casino.


JJ was dealt a bad hand by giving the keys to Johnson. He made a good movie in 9 but he had a lot of work to overcome.

JJ completely redid the perception of Luke after 8.

People don’t have to dislike 8 but it definitely hurt the flow of the story this trilogy.

Palpetine being alive in the manner he was just lazy and it was only done because Johnson killed the supposed big bad in this trilogy in a throwaway way in 8.
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The same emperor who was only mentioned in passing in 4 and played by a different actor in 5.

I thought the way Ren killed Snoke was awesome and I would much rather have the emperor back in 9 than more Snoke. Especially given that Rey is his granddaughter.

I think you’re ignoring Luke’s arc in 8. He realized he was wrong by the end of the movie when he had the showdown with Ren. Yoda helped him get there.

For those of you who claim you can skip 8, how would you explain Luke being alive at the end of 7 and then a force ghost in 9? And what about Ren’s backstory? The connection between Ren and Rey? Rey being further along with her training and piecing together her past? That “common” people like Finn can be force sensitive? That there are people all over the galaxy who are ready to fight?

I thought Abrams overdid it with Rose. That’s thanks to the pressure from people who can’t handle lesbians kissing. Rose should have gone with Finn and the other former storm troopers in 9. It’s silly that she didn’t.

I mentioned this before, but I’ll bring it up again: Abrams was the one who separated Rey, Finn and Poe at the end of 7. Johnson had to figure out how to unite them.
 
KaiserUEO said:
i say he lost 1-3 because he did not get Anakin as intended, nor did he get his kids. thats a Loss.

Anakin lost the fight to Obi and then became the aforementioned slow moving robot. but yes, he did wipe out most of the Jedi, all except the most powerful one...maybe 2. Loss.

personally, yes he went from Senator to Supreme Dictator, but at what cost? he kept 'losing' to the Force.

i used the bills because they always made the big game, but lost.
Expand...
Palpetine didn't know about the twins. That is the point of a A New Hope. In ANH Darth Vader didn't even know Luke was his son when he was trying to blow him up saying the force is strong with this one.

Palpetine didn't know.
If you watch the other Star Wars cannon they show that Vader wasn't completely machine right away. In the cartoon Rebels he fights his former Padawan Ahsoka and he isn't what he is 4-6.

All the stuff between RoTS and ANH took its toil on Vader. That is why your idea of a movie could work.
 
Alsacs said:
Palpetine won the episode 1-3 trilogy.
How is he the Buffalo Bills.
He started off a Senator and ended up as Supreme Dictator in episode 3.
He won that trilogy he wiped out 99% of the Jedi.

He lost in episode 6 and really episode 9 but it was just done poorly IMO.
JJ had a story for episodes 8-9. He though didn’t tell Johnson what to do he let him do what he wanted.
JJ had to clean up his mess in 9.
The story of 9 was 3 plots in 1 because of what happened in 8.
Expand...
I do agree that the emperor won the prequels.

BTW, it makes little sense that Vader couldn’t find Luke (or Obi-Wan) before 4. Or that he didn’t realize Leia was his daughter when he captured her. We can pick apart any and all of these movies if we try hard enough.
 
Alsacs said:
The Holdo maneuver was just insane. It could be used by the rebels to put droids on a ship and take out the Death Star or any object. It made no sense.

Episode 8 has so many holes that JJ just tried his best to paint over it completely in Episode 9.
Expand...
The Holdo maneuver was cool AF. And apparently Abrams uses it himself in 9. I’m taking the kids to see it later today and I will try and confirm.
 
Alsacs said:
Palpetine didn't know about the twins. That is the point of a A New Hope. In ANH Darth Vader didn't even know Luke was his son when he was trying to blow him up saying the force is strong with this one.

Palpetine didn't know.
If you watch the other Star Wars cannon they show that Vader wasn't completely machine right away. In the cartoon Rebels he fights his former Padawan Ahsoka and he isn't what he is 4-6.

All the stuff between RoTS and ANH took its toil on Vader. That is why your idea of a movie could work.
Expand...
This is for you and Kaiser: Vader wasn’t a slow-moving robot in Rogue One. He cleaned house at the end of that movie, which was minutes before New Hope. Plot hole?
 
Fly Rodder said:
Lucas had a some kind of 9-film plan sketched out, but nothing set in stone. He didn't know if he'd ever get to make Empire or Jedi, so Star Wars was largely a standalone film. After he got the go ahead to make the next two, he started cribbing some of the best ideas from the his other potential installments (one of which was a pair of twins separated at birth to protect them). Based on what I've read, he rewrote his treatments for the other installments a couple of times and, thankfully, Disney didn't use his ideas to focus on midichlorians and whills for this third trilogy because he's too far in own his own head.
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OK, here’s another one: Who is Yoda talking about when he says, “There is another” in Empire? If it’s Leia, he’s telling Obi-Wan something he already knows, which is a sign of bad writing (and Kasdan isn’t a bad writer). It can’t be Rey because she wasn’t even born yet.

Of course, pretty much everyone assumes it’s Leia. So Lucas screwed that up by making them siblings in 6. Then he made it even worse by having Obi-Wan there for their births and then devising the plan to separate them in 3 (which included putting Luke not just on Anakin’s home planet but at his house, with Obi-Wan hiding out several miles down the road).
 
Alsacs said:
The Holdo maneuver was just insane. It could be used by the rebels to put droids on a ship and take out the Death Star or any object. It made no sense.

Episode 8 has so many holes that JJ just tried his best to paint over it completely in Episode 9.
Expand...
Meant to say earlier:

Someone would have to come up with the Holdo maneuver first. That’s why we didn’t have kamikaze pilots until WWII (and only in the Pacific). That’s why the Giants didn’t run the Air Coryell offense in the ‘30s.

And the Holdo maneuver is a waste of resources, so you would only want to use it as a last resort.
 
Day2 said:
This is for you and Kaiser: Vader wasn’t a slow-moving robot in Rogue One. He cleaned house at the end of that movie, which was minutes before New Hope. Plot hole?
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I would say fighting his son and the Palpetine lightning took its toil in ROTJ and the machine was done in by that.
 
Alsacs said:
I would say fighting his son and the Palpetine lightning took its toil in ROTJ and the machine was done in by that.
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Uh, yeah, he freaking died. But that’s not what you guys were saying.
 
Day2 said:
Meant to say earlier:

Someone would have to come up with the Holdo maneuver first. That’s why we didn’t have kamikaze pilots until WWII (and only in the Pacific). That’s why the Giants didn’t run the Air Coryell offense in the ‘30s.

And the Holdo maneuver is a waste of resources, so you would only want to use it as a last resort.
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total waste of resources, for both sides.

good point on kamikaze pilots too.
 
Day2 said:
Meant to say earlier:

Someone would have to come up with the Holdo maneuver first. That’s why we didn’t have kamikaze pilots until WWII (and only in the Pacific). That’s why the Giants didn’t run the Air Coryell offense in the ‘30s.

And the Holdo maneuver is a waste of resources, so you would only want to use it as a last resort.
Expand...
Put droids on a ship and have them all use the Holdo maneuver on your enemies.
It was beyond stupid.
 
Alsacs said:
Put droids on a ship and have them all use the Holdo maneuver on your enemies.
It was beyond stupid.
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Hell you don't even need a ship. Attach a hyperdrive to an asteroid and boom! No need to steal death star plans. Hit it with 12 light speed asteroids. Done. It was emblematic of TLJ: there were cool scenes (the Kylo/Rey/Snoke throne room scene was undoubtedly awesome, and the Holdo scene also looked amazing), but they broke a lot of the underpinnings that took 7 movies to develop.
 
Alsacs said:
Put droids on a ship and have them all use the Holdo maneuver on your enemies.
It was beyond stupid.
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Droids and ships cost money.
 
HoustonCuse said:
Hell you don't even need a ship. Attach a hyperdrive to an asteroid and boom! No need to steal death star plans. Hit it with 12 light speed asteroids.
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That’s more ridiculous than the actual maneuver or the anti-gravity bombs. Or Luke’s curveball shot with his eyes closed. Or completing the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs. Or, you know, basically anything that happens in these movies.
 
Put me on the list of people that thought the Snoke death in 8 was a little weak. He saw everything coming, but he didn't see THAT coming? A lot of build up about him in 7, and early 8, then he's gone and we still have half the movie left.

As for the early 1-3, I would have liked to see more Darth Maul.
 
Chip said:
Put me on the list of people that thought the Snoke death in 8 was a little weak. He saw everything coming, but he didn't see THAT coming? A lot of build up about him in 7, and early 8, then he's gone and we still have half the movie left.
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No, that was the Emperor’s plan all along.
 
Day2 said:
No, that was the Emperor’s plan all along.
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I give you credit, you’ve got a pretty amazing ability to argue your position on every board on this forum. I guess that is to be applauded.
 
Day2 said:
That’s more ridiculous than the actual maneuver or the anti-gravity bombs. Or Luke’s curveball shot with his eyes closed. Or completing the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs. Or, you know, basically anything that happens in these movies.
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I see the point, and frankly I don't disagree. Harry Potter suffers the same fate. In a world where you have magic (or the force or tech like in SW) it can be tough to come up with a compelling dilemma for the characters that they can't just magic their way out of. But you have to stick to some basic rules or the balance of things gets out of wack in a silly way. If this Holdo thing was doable all along, then there was no point in any of the things that happened previously in all the other films. It is the ultimate get out of jail free card. Certainly it would have made the Empire/First Order/Whoever think a heck of a lot differently about building massive capital ships and death stars (I would asume anyway), if all of them could be destroyed by 50 Republic Credits worth of Asteroid, a hyperdrive, and droid to steer it!
 
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