Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[OttoinGrotto]

Just got back from seeing it. Wife and kids were all in bed by like 8:15, caught the 8:25 at the theater nearby trusting they would show a ton of previews. My faith in excessive previews was rewarded.

It's an adequate movie.

Spoiler: Stuff I'm thinking about that isn't sitting right

There are some things that are really not sitting right with me. Admittedly, I am critical of the Star Wars series.
This secret Sith planet... how are there so many people there? That all don't have any issue living in the dark? And that all wear the same weird hood?And yet also all have the technical knowledge and skills to build heavily weaponized star ships? And even though the planet looks desolate seemingly has enough metal/mineral resources to construct a fleet? And the weird community of people apparently hang out in a big ol' arena kind of thing where their zombie leader is attached to a machine? WTH is all this? And you need a weird pyramid thing to find this planet, and there's a limited number of the pyramid things, and the planet is a secret and legend, but everyone kind of knows about it and knows nobody knows how to get there, but Kylo finds one kind of when he feels like it, and it's protected by... who? And why? But it was, pretty clear he had to fight his way through a big pile of somebody to get it. And by the way, once Rey gets to the Sith planet it's pretty frickin' easy to map out how other ships that have never gone that way can get there too.
Also... did Rey basically commit Sith follower genocide? That's what happened, right? They made it pretty clear that all those spooky people in hoods watching and chanting and whatever that was about got crushed. So, uh... this is all ok? The Force is cool with genocide?
And yeah the funny little mechanic guy and the hot helmeted chick popping up was nifty and rewarding for Poe... but didn't the entire rest of their planet get destroyed? I know I'm overthinking this, but we saw yet another planet get blown up in the series (which is like fridging in terms of motivation in the Star Wars universe I guess) and it doesn't feel like a victory that two characters we just happened to meet earlier survived. Also, how?

Also feels like lazy narrative that Finn intends to tell Rey something as he's maybe dying, isn't comfortable saying it in front of Poe, and it never ends up being said.

Also, the new bad general guy? Why? That supposedly has this longer history and direct connection to Palpatine? Why?

Hux as the spy? Why did we need this? His throwaway line about being motivated to see Kylo Ren lose... just a strange character arc. That's a good actor, he deserved better.

Also the Knights of Ren... abandoned their leader pretty quickly. That's weird, right?

I need to stop thinking about it. More stuff is going to bother me.

 

[Orangeman]

I agree with you that many of the plot dynamics in Star Wars are silly/absurd since 4-6...yes, those movies had singular problems with Galactic issues, but they made "sense"...

Since then we've had corny enemies ("The First Order"), silly dynamics (the "stand-off" in 8, the decoder ring in 9, etc). I will say the Death Star plans transmission issue seemed to work in Rogue One

It's like they have years to figure out these plot dynamics and come up with Saturday AM Smurfs narratives -- Gargamoyle has captured Daisy yadda yadda.

Still good entertainment, but they're relying.

 

[GoSU96]

Just got back from seeing it. Wife and kids were all in bed by like 8:15, caught the 8:25 at the theater nearby trusting they would show a ton of previews. My faith in excessive previews was rewarded.

It's an adequate movie.

Spoiler: Stuff I'm thinking about that isn't sitting right

There are some things that are really not sitting right with me. Admittedly, I am critical of the Star Wars series.
This secret Sith planet... how are there so many people there? That all don't have any issue living in the dark? And that all wear the same weird hood?And yet also all have the technical knowledge and skills to build heavily weaponized star ships? And even though the planet looks desolate seemingly has enough metal/mineral resources to construct a fleet? And the weird community of people apparently hang out in a big ol' arena kind of thing where their zombie leader is attached to a machine? WTH is all this? And you need a weird pyramid thing to find this planet, and there's a limited number of the pyramid things, and the planet is a secret and legend, but everyone kind of knows about it and knows nobody knows how to get there, but Kylo finds one kind of when he feels like it, and it's protected by... who? And why? But it was, pretty clear he had to fight his way through a big pile of somebody to get it. And by the way, once Rey gets to the Sith planet it's pretty frickin' easy to map out how other ships that have never gone that way can get there too.
Also... did Rey basically commit Sith follower genocide? That's what happened, right? They made it pretty clear that all those spooky people in hoods watching and chanting and whatever that was about got crushed. So, uh... this is all ok? The Force is cool with genocide?
And yeah the funny little mechanic guy and the hot helmeted chick popping up was nifty and rewarding for Poe... but didn't the entire rest of their planet get destroyed? I know I'm overthinking this, but we saw yet another planet get blown up in the series (which is like fridging in terms of motivation in the Star Wars universe I guess) and it doesn't feel like a victory that two characters we just happened to meet earlier survived. Also, how?

Also feels like lazy narrative that Finn intends to tell Rey something as he's maybe dying, isn't comfortable saying it in front of Poe, and it never ends up being said.

Also, the new bad general guy? Why? That supposedly has this longer history and direct connection to Palpatine? Why?

Hux as the spy? Why did we need this? His throwaway line about being motivated to see Kylo Ren lose... just a strange character arc. That's a good actor, he deserved better.

Also the Knights of Ren... abandoned their leader pretty quickly. That's weird, right?

I need to stop thinking about it. More stuff is going to bother me.

That's a good list, I get it's star wars and science fiction but yeah, resource constraints.

Tough to tax planets if you keep blowing them up. I guess a Sith power is to grow money on trees.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If it's watched as a movie, and not some religious iconography, it was good entertainment. What I didn't like was Han coming back to speak to Ben, as if he was a Jedi. Also, why wait until now to reveal that Leia trained as a Jedi?

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's like they have years to figure out these plot dynamics and come up with Saturday AM Smurfs narratives

Yep. The single biggest problem with Star Wars, which is weird because the whole thing has made billions of dollars, is the lack of any kind of cohesive underpinning. This started with Lucas when the changed the visual aesthetic of his universe in the prequels (based on his being blown away by CGI) and then Disney drops the ball on speccing our their narrative arcs for the sequel trilogy by not keeping their creative team consistent.

One thing that keeps gnawing at me is the exponential growth of jedi power. In A New Hope, the jedi knights were mythical warriors yet the only thing that Obi Wan did was wave his hand a few times for a mind trick, light saber some drunk in the bar, and lose in an unspectacular duel with Vader. But it all worked to keep people blown away and kids wanting to be a jedi and drive a multi-billion dollar franchise. Yet by the time we get to IX,

Spoiler

Rey is tractor-beaming transport ships and Palpatine is lightening bolting an entire fleet.

I thought the movie was fine as far as an action movie goes, but the whole thing kind of feels like junk food: pretty good at the time, but I don't think I got anything lasting out of it. The fake outs were obvious, the action seqeunces were predictable and went on a little too long, some things didn't make sense (and boy does JJ likes his plot devices, there's a lost map, a spy, a thingamabob, etc.). I felt they discarded the best things from Rian's movie and doubled down on the some of worst things from TFA. This movie was supposed to the be the end of the Skywalker Saga, but it ends

Spoiler

with Rey, apparently a Palpatine, adopting the Skywalker name? One of the best parts of TLJ was that it opened up the universe that if Rey was unaffiliated, then anyone could be a jedi, and therefore opened up the opportunity for more movies that will make billions of dollars

.

Spoiler

And yet also all have the technical knowledge and skills to build heavily weaponized star ships? And even though the planet looks desolate seemingly has enough metal/mineral resources to construct a fleet?

I think they screwed this up.

Spoiler

In one of the expanded universe plot lines, the Empire had constructed a giant fleet and stashed it away for contingency purposes. Additionally, it was, IIRC, supposedly automated. But it seems like JJ took the idea of the lost fleet, but couldn't or didn't feel the need to shoehorn in all backstory to it.

 

[DoubleDee]

If it's watched as a movie, and not some religious iconography, it was good entertainment. What I didn't like was Han coming back to speak to Ben, as if he was a Jedi. Also, why wait until now to reveal that Leia trained as a Jedi?

As if a jedi? He wasn’t like a force ghost. It was just a conversation within Bens mind. He wasn’t REALLY there.

 

[ForCuseSake]

As if a jedi? He wasn’t like a force ghost. It was just a conversation within Bens mind. He wasn’t REALLY there.

I thought that scene was Leia using the force, in the form of Han, to communicate to Ben.

Might have the timing screwed up.

 

[DoubleDee]

I thought that scene was Leia using the force, in the form of Han, to communicate to Ben.

Might have the timing screwed up.

No, you know what, I believe you’re right.

 

[Guinness]

The scene with Ben and Han was the missed opportunity to bring back Anakin. Ben was such a Vader fan boy that having Anakin come back and be the one to turn him would have been awesome.

 

[Trueblue25]

Her adopting the last name was one of the lamest star wars occurrences I’ve witnessed imo.

 

[DoubleDee]

Her adopting the last name was one of the lamest star wars occurrences I’ve witnessed imo.

Booooooooo. I liked it. I think that was another opportunity to have Christensen back as a force ghost with Luke and leia at the end.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Her adopting the last name was one of the lamest star wars occurrences I’ve witnessed imo.

Had to.

Otherwise the landlord would have voided her lease.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Had to.

Otherwise the landlord would have voided her lease.

She could've used "Lars" and been fine.

Rey Lars doesn't quite roll of the tongue like Rey Skywalker.

 

[KaiserUEO]

If it's watched as a movie, and not some religious iconography. What I didn't like was Han coming back to speak to Ben, as if he was a Jedi. Also, why wait until now to reveal that Leia trained as a Jedi.

I’ve only seen it 1x, but I just figured it was after 6, therefore no reason to reveal it.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I thought that scene was Leia using the force, in the form of Han, to communicate to Ben.

Might have the timing screwed up.

no I don’t think so. It was simply a memory. They only hint in the films what the novelizations hit hard; killing Han really split Ben in half, crushing his power potential. It was meant to supercharge his dark side powers but it shattered him instead.Snoke makes mention of this in TLJ. I thought it was a good scene here. He was not real. He was a memory in Bens mind, essentially forgiving himself and it was the moment he embraced the light.

 

[Melancer46]

The scene with Ben and Han was the missed opportunity to bring back Anakin. Ben was such a Vader fan boy that having Anakin come back and be the one to turn him would have been awesome.

Yeah, but Hayden Christensen.

 

[Melancer46]

My overall thoughts on the trilogy:

Spoiler

TLDR: I think it was probably a mistake to make this trilogy at all; it seems that they simply didn't have an interesting story to tell, and even if they had one, it probably shouldn't have been confined to three movies, but I guess Star Wars = trilogies or something. A series of movies actually showing what the world is like after the Empire is defeated would have been interesting. Instead, they essentially opted to make a movie series in which the Empire wasn't actually defeated and everything was the same as we had left it in the Empire Strikes Back.

I like some of the ideas that came out of this trilogy. Namely:

1. The concept of Finn's character: a stormtrooper that sees the destruction that he's creating and switches sides to join the rebellion.

2. The idea introduced in TLJ that Rey was just a random person who happened to be strong in the force/the kid at the end that seemed to symbolize that any kid could theoretically be a Jedi.

3. The concept of Kylo's character: child of famous rebels going rogue (don't really care one way or the other if he's ultimately redeemed; I think both could have been interesting if done right).

The issue to me is that it was all executed poorly/rushed and ultimately created 1 unoriginal movie and 2 objectively poorly made movies (1 of which was so bad that it wasn't really even entertaining and 1 of which was still fun to watch despite being poorly made).

In an ideal world, I think this should have been spread out over many more movies.

For example, having Finn leave the FO after his opening scene was a mistake. We should have been introduced to him much slower; seeing his character actually develop over time to the point that he realized he was on the wrong side and then either become a spy from within or leave to join the rebels then.

With Kylo, his entire arc was rushed so much that the payoff basically didn't exist. They basically gave us one flashback to show him go bad; a movie series just about him being trained and gradually snapping would have been more interesting than what we ultimately got (though I suppose you could argue that's basically what the prequel trilogy tried to do and that obviously was poorly done too). Still, I think one flashback scene to explain him snapping and one 5 minute scene to explain him being a total good guy again was a very poor idea.

And regarding the idea that anyone could be a Jedi/Rey represented that, obviously JJ destroyed that with TRoS, but I think that was a very powerful idea that happened to be introduced within a terrible movie.

Beyond those things, Poe probably should have died in the first movie if he ever existed at all. Basically everything involving Poe in the trilogy was poorly done and he probably is part of the reason we didn't get to see a good character arc for the more interesting Finn idea.

There was just way too much involvement of the original trilogy's characters/ripping off of the original trilogy and it was often forced in ways that didn't make sense. This partially resulted in what is maybe my biggest complaint: there was essentially zero stakes in this trilogy. Nothing truly bad really ever happened. Kylo didn't win any fights until he became a good guy. Nobody important truly died; even Han, who should have been legitimately gone, was kept alive as a cheap memory. Chewie was literally blown up by Rey and then they were just like "just kidding, you never saw a second ship, but it definitely exists and that's the one that Chewie was on." They couldn't even let C3PO lose his memory. They couldn't let Poe's love interest that nobody even cared about die when her planet got blown to pieces. They showed us her giving Poe her only ticket off the planet and her refusing to leave and then it gets blown up shortly thereafter but she ended up getting off the planet in between.

They also introduced the ultimate bad guy of the entire trilogy via the opening scroll.

In ROTJ, the empire is defeated; the rebels won. TFA begins and basically that didn't actually happen; the empire is still running everything, just with a new name. The rebels are still trying to topple the empire, just with a new name. TRoS ends and the empire is defeated; the rebels won. How are we supposed to actually care? Is there any reason to believe this time, the empire is actually gone? Or will the next trilogy in the Skywalker saga just be like "Honestly, we thought this place was the only secret Sith planet, but there was actually another one and now Palpatine is a jar of goo sitting on that planet running The Second Last Order from there".

All in all, they just never really gave us a reason to care about these movies aside from the fact that it's Star Wars and we like Star Wars. I was still able to enjoy 2/3 movies but they were enjoyed from the angle of being a mindless action flick rather than being actual good movies.

 

[DoubleDee]

You have valid points, but how often does any movie rush you through some character development? Every time I read a post similar to this, I just think of the original 3. You could write that same post about those films. Think about if you just watched those for the first time. Same issues. And at the end of ROTS they rushed through a ton of stuff to answer all the things that needed to be buttoned up.

 

[Alsacs]

All the writers for 7-9 had to do was follow portions of the EU.
Instead they did what Melancer said.

JJ just did a remake of episode IV in VII. TFA was okay but left enough for a real story. TLJ ruined the trilogy. TRoS was a lot better though.

 

[KaiserUEO]

My overall thoughts on the trilogy:

Spoiler

TLDR: I think it was probably a mistake to make this trilogy at all; it seems that they simply didn't have an interesting story to tell, and even if they had one, it probably shouldn't have been confined to three movies, but I guess Star Wars = trilogies or something. A series of movies actually showing what the world is like after the Empire is defeated would have been interesting. Instead, they essentially opted to make a movie series in which the Empire wasn't actually defeated and everything was the same as we had left it in the Empire Strikes Back.

I like some of the ideas that came out of this trilogy. Namely:

1. The concept of Finn's character: a stormtrooper that sees the destruction that he's creating and switches sides to join the rebellion.

2. The idea introduced in TLJ that Rey was just a random person who happened to be strong in the force/the kid at the end that seemed to symbolize that any kid could theoretically be a Jedi.

3. The concept of Kylo's character: child of famous rebels going rogue (don't really care one way or the other if he's ultimately redeemed; I think both could have been interesting if done right).

The issue to me is that it was all executed poorly/rushed and ultimately created 1 unoriginal movie and 2 objectively poorly made movies (1 of which was so bad that it wasn't really even entertaining and 1 of which was still fun to watch despite being poorly made).

In an ideal world, I think this should have been spread out over many more movies.

For example, having Finn leave the FO after his opening scene was a mistake. We should have been introduced to him much slower; seeing his character actually develop over time to the point that he realized he was on the wrong side and then either become a spy from within or leave to join the rebels then.

With Kylo, his entire arc was rushed so much that the payoff basically didn't exist. They basically gave us one flashback to show him go bad; a movie series just about him being trained and gradually snapping would have been more interesting than what we ultimately got (though I suppose you could argue that's basically what the prequel trilogy tried to do and that obviously was poorly done too). Still, I think one flashback scene to explain him snapping and one 5 minute scene to explain him being a total good guy again was a very poor idea.

And regarding the idea that anyone could be a Jedi/Rey represented that, obviously JJ destroyed that with TRoS, but I think that was a very powerful idea that happened to be introduced within a terrible movie.

Beyond those things, Poe probably should have died in the first movie if he ever existed at all. Basically everything involving Poe in the trilogy was poorly done and he probably is part of the reason we didn't get to see a good character arc for the more interesting Finn idea.

There was just way too much involvement of the original trilogy's characters/ripping off of the original trilogy and it was often forced in ways that didn't make sense. This partially resulted in what is maybe my biggest complaint: there was essentially zero stakes in this trilogy. Nothing truly bad really ever happened. Kylo didn't win any fights until he became a good guy. Nobody important truly died; even Han, who should have been legitimately gone, was kept alive as a cheap memory. Chewie was literally blown up by Rey and then they were just like "just kidding, you never saw a second ship, but it definitely exists and that's the one that Chewie was on." They couldn't even let C3PO lose his memory. They couldn't let Poe's love interest that nobody even cared about die when her planet got blown to pieces. They showed us her giving Poe her only ticket off the planet and her refusing to leave and then it gets blown up shortly thereafter but she ended up getting off the planet in between.

They also introduced the ultimate bad guy of the entire trilogy via the opening scroll.

In ROTJ, the empire is defeated; the rebels won. TFA begins and basically that didn't actually happen; the empire is still running everything, just with a new name. The rebels are still trying to topple the empire, just with a new name. TRoS ends and the empire is defeated; the rebels won. How are we supposed to actually care? Is there any reason to believe this time, the empire is actually gone? Or will the next trilogy in the Skywalker saga just be like "Honestly, we thought this place was the only secret Sith planet, but there was actually another one and now Palpatine is a jar of goo sitting on that planet running The Second Last Order from there".

All in all, they just never really gave us a reason to care about these movies aside from the fact that it's Star Wars and we like Star Wars. I was still able to enjoy 2/3 movies but they were enjoyed from the angle of being a mindless action flick rather than being actual good movies.

You have some good points, but I had to stop reading when I checked the length.

I promise to read again, this time in its entirety, either drunk again or sober.

hung over, well,...it’s just too much.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My overall thoughts on the trilogy:

Spoiler

TLDR: I think it was probably a mistake to make this trilogy at all; it seems that they simply didn't have an interesting story to tell, and even if they had one, it probably shouldn't have been confined to three movies, but I guess Star Wars = trilogies or something. A series of movies actually showing what the world is like after the Empire is defeated would have been interesting. Instead, they essentially opted to make a movie series in which the Empire wasn't actually defeated and everything was the same as we had left it in the Empire Strikes Back.

I like some of the ideas that came out of this trilogy. Namely:

1. The concept of Finn's character: a stormtrooper that sees the destruction that he's creating and switches sides to join the rebellion.

2. The idea introduced in TLJ that Rey was just a random person who happened to be strong in the force/the kid at the end that seemed to symbolize that any kid could theoretically be a Jedi.

3. The concept of Kylo's character: child of famous rebels going rogue (don't really care one way or the other if he's ultimately redeemed; I think both could have been interesting if done right).

The issue to me is that it was all executed poorly/rushed and ultimately created 1 unoriginal movie and 2 objectively poorly made movies (1 of which was so bad that it wasn't really even entertaining and 1 of which was still fun to watch despite being poorly made).

In an ideal world, I think this should have been spread out over many more movies.

For example, having Finn leave the FO after his opening scene was a mistake. We should have been introduced to him much slower; seeing his character actually develop over time to the point that he realized he was on the wrong side and then either become a spy from within or leave to join the rebels then.

With Kylo, his entire arc was rushed so much that the payoff basically didn't exist. They basically gave us one flashback to show him go bad; a movie series just about him being trained and gradually snapping would have been more interesting than what we ultimately got (though I suppose you could argue that's basically what the prequel trilogy tried to do and that obviously was poorly done too). Still, I think one flashback scene to explain him snapping and one 5 minute scene to explain him being a total good guy again was a very poor idea.

And regarding the idea that anyone could be a Jedi/Rey represented that, obviously JJ destroyed that with TRoS, but I think that was a very powerful idea that happened to be introduced within a terrible movie.

Beyond those things, Poe probably should have died in the first movie if he ever existed at all. Basically everything involving Poe in the trilogy was poorly done and he probably is part of the reason we didn't get to see a good character arc for the more interesting Finn idea.

There was just way too much involvement of the original trilogy's characters/ripping off of the original trilogy and it was often forced in ways that didn't make sense. This partially resulted in what is maybe my biggest complaint: there was essentially zero stakes in this trilogy. Nothing truly bad really ever happened. Kylo didn't win any fights until he became a good guy. Nobody important truly died; even Han, who should have been legitimately gone, was kept alive as a cheap memory. Chewie was literally blown up by Rey and then they were just like "just kidding, you never saw a second ship, but it definitely exists and that's the one that Chewie was on." They couldn't even let C3PO lose his memory. They couldn't let Poe's love interest that nobody even cared about die when her planet got blown to pieces. They showed us her giving Poe her only ticket off the planet and her refusing to leave and then it gets blown up shortly thereafter but she ended up getting off the planet in between.

They also introduced the ultimate bad guy of the entire trilogy via the opening scroll.

In ROTJ, the empire is defeated; the rebels won. TFA begins and basically that didn't actually happen; the empire is still running everything, just with a new name. The rebels are still trying to topple the empire, just with a new name. TRoS ends and the empire is defeated; the rebels won. How are we supposed to actually care? Is there any reason to believe this time, the empire is actually gone? Or will the next trilogy in the Skywalker saga just be like "Honestly, we thought this place was the only secret Sith planet, but there was actually another one and now Palpatine is a jar of goo sitting on that planet running The Second Last Order from there".

All in all, they just never really gave us a reason to care about these movies aside from the fact that it's Star Wars and we like Star Wars. I was still able to enjoy 2/3 movies but they were enjoyed from the angle of being a mindless action flick rather than being actual good movies.

Your second to last paragraph nails it.

Also,

Spoiler

I feel like they really should have let Chewie be dead, for several reasons. First, that would have provided the missing sense of loss and stakes. He didn't need to do anything else in the movie from the audience perspective. He didn't need the medal from Leia. Somebody else could have gone with Lando to rally - tbh though, was Lando really needed for that too? Anyway, the second reason is because Rey only had to deal with the impact of the thought that she killed Chewbacca for a little while, and she didn't need to overcome the sense of hopelessness that she did something completely wrong. She just got the relief that she didn't do anything bad. Oh btw though killing a transport full of people is totally fine if they're the enemy.
Last thought - there was zero need for the quick flash spiky teeth thing with evil Rey. Did anybody else also think she looked kinda hot that way? I don't know if the makeup was different or the jet black eyes kinda did something for her face, but I thought she looked stunningly gorgeous that way, which maybe also could have hinted to the temptation of the power and how it enhances.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You have some good points, but I had to stop reading when I checked the length.

I promise to read again, this time in its entirety, either drunk again or sober.

hung over, well,...it’s just too much.

He made a great assessment. Definitely read it clear headed.

 

[Melancer46]

You have some good points, but I had to stop reading when I checked the length.

I promise to read again, this time in its entirety, either drunk again or sober.

hung over, well,...it’s just too much.

Lmao, I honestly had no idea how much I had to say until I looked back at it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

My overall thoughts on the trilogy:

Spoiler

TLDR: I think it was probably a mistake to make this trilogy at all; it seems that they simply didn't have an interesting story to tell, and even if they had one, it probably shouldn't have been confined to three movies, but I guess Star Wars = trilogies or something. A series of movies actually showing what the world is like after the Empire is defeated would have been interesting. Instead, they essentially opted to make a movie series in which the Empire wasn't actually defeated and everything was the same as we had left it in the Empire Strikes Back.

I like some of the ideas that came out of this trilogy. Namely:

1. The concept of Finn's character: a stormtrooper that sees the destruction that he's creating and switches sides to join the rebellion.

2. The idea introduced in TLJ that Rey was just a random person who happened to be strong in the force/the kid at the end that seemed to symbolize that any kid could theoretically be a Jedi.

3. The concept of Kylo's character: child of famous rebels going rogue (don't really care one way or the other if he's ultimately redeemed; I think both could have been interesting if done right).

The issue to me is that it was all executed poorly/rushed and ultimately created 1 unoriginal movie and 2 objectively poorly made movies (1 of which was so bad that it wasn't really even entertaining and 1 of which was still fun to watch despite being poorly made).

In an ideal world, I think this should have been spread out over many more movies.

For example, having Finn leave the FO after his opening scene was a mistake. We should have been introduced to him much slower; seeing his character actually develop over time to the point that he realized he was on the wrong side and then either become a spy from within or leave to join the rebels then.

With Kylo, his entire arc was rushed so much that the payoff basically didn't exist. They basically gave us one flashback to show him go bad; a movie series just about him being trained and gradually snapping would have been more interesting than what we ultimately got (though I suppose you could argue that's basically what the prequel trilogy tried to do and that obviously was poorly done too). Still, I think one flashback scene to explain him snapping and one 5 minute scene to explain him being a total good guy again was a very poor idea.

And regarding the idea that anyone could be a Jedi/Rey represented that, obviously JJ destroyed that with TRoS, but I think that was a very powerful idea that happened to be introduced within a terrible movie.

Beyond those things, Poe probably should have died in the first movie if he ever existed at all. Basically everything involving Poe in the trilogy was poorly done and he probably is part of the reason we didn't get to see a good character arc for the more interesting Finn idea.

There was just way too much involvement of the original trilogy's characters/ripping off of the original trilogy and it was often forced in ways that didn't make sense. This partially resulted in what is maybe my biggest complaint: there was essentially zero stakes in this trilogy. Nothing truly bad really ever happened. Kylo didn't win any fights until he became a good guy. Nobody important truly died; even Han, who should have been legitimately gone, was kept alive as a cheap memory. Chewie was literally blown up by Rey and then they were just like "just kidding, you never saw a second ship, but it definitely exists and that's the one that Chewie was on." They couldn't even let C3PO lose his memory. They couldn't let Poe's love interest that nobody even cared about die when her planet got blown to pieces. They showed us her giving Poe her only ticket off the planet and her refusing to leave and then it gets blown up shortly thereafter but she ended up getting off the planet in between.

They also introduced the ultimate bad guy of the entire trilogy via the opening scroll.

In ROTJ, the empire is defeated; the rebels won. TFA begins and basically that didn't actually happen; the empire is still running everything, just with a new name. The rebels are still trying to topple the empire, just with a new name. TRoS ends and the empire is defeated; the rebels won. How are we supposed to actually care? Is there any reason to believe this time, the empire is actually gone? Or will the next trilogy in the Skywalker saga just be like "Honestly, we thought this place was the only secret Sith planet, but there was actually another one and now Palpatine is a jar of goo sitting on that planet running The Second Last Order from there".

All in all, they just never really gave us a reason to care about these movies aside from the fact that it's Star Wars and we like Star Wars. I was still able to enjoy 2/3 movies but they were enjoyed from the angle of being a mindless action flick rather than being actual good movies.

Honestly if certain characters were killed off I think many people would have really disliked it. I know some diehard friends who would have lost it if chewie actually left haha.

That said... there were definitely characters that were killed off in this trilogy.

 

[Cuseregular]

Very good discussion of the pros and cons here especially at the 32 minute mark sums up my thoughts.

Went back and watched the last Jedi was able to enjoy it much more knowing the final arc of the story, appreciating the Star Wars movie elements while still disliking some of the major plot points and elements.

While there's a bunch of valid points listed throughout here in this thread, my 2 cents on The rise of sky walker is a repeat of some of the last line or two from my original take.

Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

wasnt pretty much the whole story from day 1 about greed being bad? black and white good vs evil. rich vs poor. dont even know what the human trafficking part was. luke was bitter from the first second he appeared on the screen in 1977. There has been political stuff peppered throughout the...

syracusefan.com

Sit back relax, suspend your critical eye, go with it and enjoy.