(Stating the Obvious) The turning point was Mike Hopkins

[Alsacs]

Aren't we starting to do that with Johnson? Looks like we have a monster class coming up in the not distant future. This season has been disappointing, but after the way we started I'm ok with the fact that the games are at least entertaining. I'm not ok that I'm ok with that, but I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

2 years away for Johnson.
Johnson's class will be able to go straight to the NBA from HS. The NBA wants to let kids in the 2021-2022 year the ability to go straight to the NBA draft.

If Dior Johnson is as good as we think its 50/50 he will even choose to play college basketball.
I am not counting on him. The commitment is huge for perception though and that helps.
How haven't we recruited a Rick Jackson or Tyler Lydon in 4 years.
Our team this year was mediocre. If we are being honest next year without Hughes looks like the same.

 

[Cusefan0307]

2 years away for Johnson.
Johnson's class will be able to go straight to the NBA from HS. The NBA wants to let kids in the 2021-2022 year the ability to go straight to the NBA draft.

If Dior Johnson is as good as we think its 50/50 he will even choose to play college basketball.
I am not counting on him. The commitment is huge for perception though and that helps.
How haven't we recruited a Rick Jackson or Tyler Lydon in 4 years.
Our team this year was mediocre. If we are being honest next year without Hughes looks like the same.

Year after. It was reported by Jonathan Givony pretty recently.

 

[Arangeman]

JB content? Seriously? Do you watch him on the bench and watch his press conferences afterwards?
JB wants to win each game more or at least as much as each of us do.

He can be content with his legacy and still want to win games. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Win or lose I think he sleeps like a baby. And he should. Good for him.

 

[NKR1978]

2 years away for Johnson.
Johnson's class will be able to go straight to the NBA from HS. The NBA wants to let kids in the 2021-2022 year the ability to go straight to the NBA draft.

If Dior Johnson is as good as we think its 50/50 he will even choose to play college basketball.
I am not counting on him. The commitment is huge for perception though and that helps.
How haven't we recruited a Rick Jackson or Tyler Lydon in 4 years.
Our team this year was mediocre. If we are being honest next year without Hughes looks like the same.

I thought they were looking at 22-23 being the year kids could jump to the NBA.

 

[Alsacs]

Year after. It was reported by Jonathan Givony pretty recently.

Good then I stand corrected. I thought the NBA said 2022 draft because NBA teams had traded picks from the 2021 draft prior to this summer.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Good then I stand corrected. I thought the NBA said 2022 draft because NBA teams had traded picks from the 2021 draft prior to this summer.

I believe that was initially in the plans, but there has been no movement in over a year. I think the China fiasco ended any amendment to the current CBA as the players would lose money.

 

[Alsacs]

I found this saying 2022 draft.

NBA officially proposes lowering draft age from 19 to 18

The NBA has submitted to the National Basketball Players Association a proposal that will lower the draft-eligible age to 18, USA TODAY has learned.

www.usatoday.com

So hopefully it is 2023.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Year after. It was reported by Jonathan Givony pretty recently.

Two years is two years still and Givony isn't Adam Silver.

Also, too:

 

[Cusefan0307]

I found this saying 2022 draft.

NBA officially proposes lowering draft age from 19 to 18

The NBA has submitted to the National Basketball Players Association a proposal that will lower the draft-eligible age to 18, USA TODAY has learned.

www.usatoday.com

So hopefully it is 2023.

I was referring to this...

 

[SBU72]

Honestly this obsession with the non losing streak is such a thing we care about for little reason.
I would rather win 3 national championships like North Carolina has done since 2001 while they have had 2 losing season mixed in.

However Syracuse hasn’t had a losing season during that time.

Despite what people want to think, SU IS NOT UNC! Never was, never will be. Trying to compare SU with UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas is ridiculous.

 

[Alsacs]

Despite what people want to think, SU IS NOT UNC! Never was, never will be. Trying to compare SU with UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas is ridiculous.

I chose UNC so I didn't have to use Villanova or UConn.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If Hopkins stays here as coach, he pulls in most of those northeast recruits he’s gotten and adds them to some of the players we’ve got now. Net result, were a better team. And these last few years probably were better than bubble team, 8 seed, NIT bubble team. Hopkins maybe runs into some coaching problems like he did this year, but with the recruits he got, we’d be better than we have been.

if Hopkins stays on as coach in waiting, we still get those recruits and JB smooths over any coaching issues mike might have run into. Last three years probably much stronger than we’ve experienced.

Basically, I think JB has been operating these last few years with a bunch of top recruiting targets basically just pulled right out from under him. Net impact of this to me is similar to the net impact the sanctions had on the program.

JB clearly still knows how to coach. The players are just a step down right now. We don’t need JB to leave, we need him to recover the recruiting hit that the Hopkins loss left on this program. The recruiting experts on this board can tell far better than I can if he’s doing that or not.

Bottom line to me, if you want to know what’s wrong with the program, it was the Hopkins loss. It was as devastating as the sanctions were on recruiting. Putting the sanctions and the loss of Hopkins back to back like happened here put us where we are today.

Do you suppose there are any challenges in getting a kid to come play for a coach who is in their late 70s?
You still think he could just flip the switch and start getting top 50 kids again? Seriously?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I can agree with some of this, but some of it is hyperbolic. Serious question: Why do you think JB is fine damaging the program that he built and tarnishing his legacy? What excuses do you think he tells himself or his staff or Wildhack? It’s been something I’ve wanted to ask for a while. The downturn of the program is clear. So how do people think JB justifies it?

You do know that his son plays on the team, right?
Your question hardly seems "serious".

 

[tbonezone]

the withered vine and the cold november rain ...

yet so hard to let go of seasons past

 

[orangecuse]

Despite what people want to think, SU IS NOT UNC! Never was, never will be. Trying to compare SU with UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas is ridiculous.

Syracuse University ranks 5th (yes I'm including those bs 101 wins taken away) right behind those aforementioned in all time wins. I don't believe the poster (or anyone for that matter) is really trying to compare SU with them, mostly because of our lack of multiple titles, but the fact is, we are right there relative to wins. So, IMO, it's not that "ridiculous" after all for fans to have this perceptual high standing relative to the hoops program, and it's why I also believe that after JB is finally done, the university should act in accordance with same.

 

[hoopsupstate]

If Hop stayed and JB let Hop bring in the guys he wanted Naz Carter would be competing for minutes with Buddy. Hamier Wright, Nate Roberts are sharing minutes with Sidibe and Dolezaj and prolly Isiah Stewart is Orange too. Team would look much different, with all of those guys not sure if then Girard and Quincy and Goodine get recruited based on numbers roster balance

The problem none of those players can shoot. Wright is dreadful. Roberts has shown very little. Stewart is the only difference maker.

 

[DilemaCuse]

The problem none of those players can shoot. Wright is dreadful. Roberts has shown very little. Stewart is the only difference maker.

Agreed, but they do have some athletecisim that would benefit the awful defense we are stuck with. The team would look different and have a little better balance. Now those are just the guys Hop was able to bring to Washington. I wonder if there are guys who went elsewhere besides UW that might have went to SU if he stayed.

 

[Sherman20]

Do you even read this drivel you post?

Syracuse Basketball hasn't had a losing season in FIFTY YEARS.
And counting.

The "downturn of the program" was clear -
from '80-'82, with 2 straight NIT's, and a losing conference record 1 year, and .500 for the other.

The "downturn of the program" was clear -
the first time we got hit with sanctions in the early 90's.
Then J-Dub led us to a Final Four championship game (I still think his 5th foul was pretty ticky-tack), and an eventual resurgence.

The "downturn of the program" was clear -
after GMac graduated, and we went to 2 straight NIT's.
One of those seasons was 'only' a .500 conference record.

I forget who posted it (and kudos to them for doing the research), but for this past decade, Syracuse will go to:
7 NCAA's, 2 NIT's, and 1 ban.
With TWO Final Fours this decade.

vs. the typical average for each of the prior decades - of 8 NCAA's and 2 NIT's.
With 1 Final Four in each decade.

The "downturn of the program" is clear.

I think you’re misunderstanding me. Yes, I was being a bit hyperbolic and glib, and I didn't mean for it to come across that way. JB is a great coach, though he may be nearing the end of the road because of the challenges he’s had recruiting great talent here lately (due to his age and uncertainty around his retirement). I do think people believe the program is in the midst of an extended downturn that most Syracuse fans haven’t experienced in their lifetimes (shouldn’t have used the language about JB tarnishing his legacy...I don’t think that’s true). And so I’m interested in the question of how JB explains the past 6 years of not-great regular seasons and not once finishing among the top 25 teams in the nation (a first in his career). I know he has his thoughts about why we’ve struggled and I just wanted to ask people their thoughts about how he rationalizes and explains it in his head. Here’s what I think are a few of the reasons:
1.) The talent in CBB is more spread out than ever, and there are more good players in CBB than ever before, and we’re not able to get enough of the top players.
2.) Kids want playing time right away, so that’s become a problem for blue blood-ish schools like Cuse that used to stockpile talented players who were role players for the first couple of years, gained experience, and then became stars as juniors and seniors.
3.) recruiting misses, especially prospects with great athleticism, size and length.
4.) scholarship reductions and recruiting sanctions.
5.) The uncertainty of his retirement timeline in the wake of the sanctions.
6.) Mike Hopkins leaving for Washington. It’s taken some time for GMac to get established as a recruiter among Northeast high school and AAU coaches.
7.) Players like Oshae, Ennis, Grant, Lydon, etc. turning pro earlier than expected.
8.) A runway narrative among high school recruits about how long he’s going to be around.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Dior and the cavalry are on the way in a few years so at least recruiting is on an uptick.

We’ll see if he ever shows up. We’ve all seen this movie before...

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

AS has been noted by people who know what happened, there is no 'selfish coach" situation. That is not how what we have today happened.

As you’ve probably figured out, many of us disagree with your assessment...and just telling us that “people who know” say so won’t change that.

 

[orangecuse]

As you’ve probably figured out, many of us disagree with your assessment...and just telling us that “people who know” say so won’t change that.

Indeed. There's that 'ol adage...people that know don't talk, and people that talk don't know.

 

[MSOrange]

We’ll see if he ever shows up. We’ve all seen this movie before...

what verbals have we ever lost besides Darius? And what makes you think this looks like a Darius situation? Obviously if the NBA changes the rule, it would be a concern so I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to? But if sounds like there is a good chance that won’t happen that year

 

[realorange]

As you’ve probably figured out, many of us disagree with your assessment...and just telling us that “people who know” say so won’t change that.

This is not my assessment. It was a thread on this site about 3-4 months ago. Detail was very exacting.
But there are too many people these days who would rather yell "Fake News"

 

[IthacaMatt]

what verbals have we ever lost besides Darius? And what makes you think this looks like a Darius situation? Obviously if the NBA changes the rule, it would be a concern so I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to? But if sounds like there is a good chance that won’t happen that year

Well, there are about 4 guys that Mike currently has on his roster, like Isaiah Stewart, Quade Green, Nahz Carter and Hameir Wright, plus whoever else he might have gotten if he was recruiting for us these past couple years.

 

[FloridaFan]

The only person on that list I would rather have is IS. I’ll take our other guys