Syracuse hiring Alex Kline as GM

[cusefan88]

Part of the reason it's hard to make predictions is there isn't not that much data. There aren't that many players playing games to count as "big data" not even close. Especially among players looking to transfer

It's very similar to euro soccer. Tons of different countries and competition levels to assess. Plus the fit into the buying teams squad.

No college program is going to get it right every year.

 

[littlereg]

I UNDERSTAND WHAT KLINE'S ROLE FOR SU IS. I am literally just saying people are using him to justify keeping Red for year 3. He could be the best talent scout of all time, and I still don't think Red could get a team to the tournament.

And I'm sorry, are you saying I don't like Syracuse/enjoyed my time on the hill?

It’s amazing how quickly your schitzo rant changes subject when people continuously tell you you’re clueless. It took you ONE WHOLE post to move your goalpost. ONE.

 

[bnoro]

It’s amazing how quickly your schitzo rant changes subject when people continuously tell you you’re clueless. It took you ONE WHOLE post to move your goalpost. ONE.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, that's fine.

 

[kingtidge]

Part of the reason it's hard to make predictions is there isn't not that much data. There aren't that many players playing games to count as "big data" not even close. Especially among players looking to transfer

How much data do you consider "big data"?

 

[Millhouse]

How much data do you consider "big data"?

Most of the time people say this stuff, they're just using buzzwords. I would say when the data is too big and varied to structure and store in relational database

Basketball data is nowhere near that

 

[kingtidge]

Most of the time people say this stuff, they're just using buzzwords. I would say when the data is too big and varied to structure and store in relational database

Basketball data is nowhere near that

OK, reason I ask is for context.

When I say "Big Data" I mean doing things with data beyond the traditional DB table structure or excel spreadsheet (not the actual size of the dataset.)

Algorithmic predicative analytics falls into that category.

 

[kirbivore]

Part of the reason it's hard to make predictions is there isn't not that much data. There aren't that many players playing games to count as "big data" not even close. Especially among players looking to transfer

 

[Hopkins16]

Ha. Leffew is averaging 25.9 mpg at UGA.

These guys are very close in stats. Carlos appears to be the better distributor. I haven’t seen Leffew play so I can’t speak to his ability to defend.

Carlos stats:
6.4 PTS 150+
2.0 REB 150+
4.0 AST Tied-150th
40.7 FG%
28.2 MINS

Leffew stats:
9.7 PTS 150+
2.0 REB 150+
1.7 AST 150+
42.4 FG%
25.8 MINS

 

[JeffCuse]

Heaven help us Alex. Apparently you are a miracle worker.

 

[phil77]

It is one thing to identify talent it is another thing to get talent to come to play for a coach that has shown zero ability to coach, a program that hasn't put a player in the NBA draft in over a decade, and since it has been on a steep decline the once loud fun place to play isn't that anymore. Not sure what Kline is supposed to sell. Hey we are middle of the pack in NIL so we have some funds to spend but we have to fill 6/7 roster spots, so here is a small piece of the pie and we play once a week on the CW. Oh and one of our incoming freshman players has a million followers on Instagram and was on SLAM magazine so you know...

 

[kingtidge]

It is one thing to identify talent it is another thing to get talent to come to play for a coach that has shown zero ability to coach, a program that hasn't put a player in the NBA draft in over a decade, and since it has been on a steep decline the once loud fun place to play isn't that anymore. Not sure what Kline is supposed to sell. Hey we are middle of the pack in NIL so we have some funds to spend but we have to fill 6/7 roster spots, so here is a small piece of the pie and we play once a week on the CW. Oh and one of our incoming freshman players has a million followers on Instagram and was on SLAM magazine so you know...

Hopefully Melo is gonna throw some ridic $$$ into the kitty... cuz we're gonna need it.

 

[Hopkins16]

My dream (more like fantasy) for SU basketball is happening at Auburn (from an ESPN article):

In early February, however, the only way to get into a Tuesday night game against Oklahoma was with a standing room ticket. The upper bowl was stuffed with fans who peered down onto the court, chicken sandwiches and beers in hand. The 1,100 seats in the student section known as "The Jungle" had filled up hours before tipoff. And the top boosters, who push every program forward these days, sat around the court.

At Auburn in 2025, it's a minimum $1 million donation to even be considered for season tickets. (That check, of course, comes with a parking spot in an exclusive lot next to the arena.)

 

[Scooch]

At Auburn in 2025, it's a minimum $1 million donation to even be considered for season tickets. (That check, of course, comes with a parking spot in an exclusive lot next to the arena.)

The arena seats around 9,000 people. And I don't believe for a second that EVERY season ticket holder has donated $1 million.

*edit* Looks like it's ~$400K priority points (whatever that means) to get them now.

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

tigersunlimited.com

 

[Sbucketball]

Now because of that article every time someone mentions Klein I call him "wunderkind" in my head but in the voice of Hans Landa in Inglorious Basterds during the "bingo" dialogue. And I hate it.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The arena seats around 9,000 people. And I don't believe for a second that EVERY season ticket holder has donated $1 million.

*edit* Looks like it's ~$400K priority points (whatever that means) to get them now.

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

tigersunlimited.com

That’s crazy. I wish we got the 20k seat multi-use arena. The dome is great for big games but it’s a sad venue when attendance is down.

 

[Orangezoo]

These guys are very close in stats. Carlos appears to be the better distributor. I haven’t seen Leffew play so I can’t speak to his ability to defend.

Carlos stats:
6.4 PTS 150+
2.0 REB 150+
4.0 AST Tied-150th
40.7 FG%
28.2 MINS

Leffew stats:
9.7 PTS 150+
2.0 REB 150+
1.7 AST 150+
42.4 FG%
25.8 MINS

Per Evan Miya Carlos has a def bpr of -.05 and Leffew a +0.88

 

[Hopkins16]

The arena seats around 9,000 people. And I don't believe for a second that EVERY season ticket holder has donated $1 million.

*edit* Looks like it's ~$400K priority points (whatever that means) to get them now.

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

Men's Basketball Ticket Priority

tigersunlimited.com

And the top boosters, who push every program forward these days, sat around the court.

I assume that it means the top boosters who sits around the court (court side seats).

 

[Blanko97]

After re listening to JWs statement yesterday, Kline has a lot of pressure on him this offseason. JW didn't blatantly say that but his comment of "alex wasn't here last year" in relation to why we should expect to see improvement is pretty wild.

 

[Blanko97]

My dream (more like fantasy) for SU basketball is happening at Auburn (from an ESPN article):

In early February, however, the only way to get into a Tuesday night game against Oklahoma was with a standing room ticket. The upper bowl was stuffed with fans who peered down onto the court, chicken sandwiches and beers in hand. The 1,100 seats in the student section known as "The Jungle" had filled up hours before tipoff. And the top boosters, who push every program forward these days, sat around the court.

At Auburn in 2025, it's a minimum $1 million donation to even be considered for season tickets. (That check, of course, comes with a parking spot in an exclusive lot next to the arena.)

I think duke was 1M minimum a few years ago, i cant imagine what they charge today...

 

[RF2044]

After re listening to JWs statement yesterday, Kline has a lot of pressure on him this offseason. JW didn't blatantly say that but his comment of "alex wasn't here last year" in relation to why we should expect to see improvement is pretty wild.

I love the addition of Alex Kline.

He has a great track record, and will be successful no matter where he goes.

But I think the problem is that the expectations about his role and what he's trying to do might not align with what needs to transpire this specific offseason, given where we are in terms of roster construction.

My two concerns are that Alex might be phenomenal using advanced analytics and his own "eye test" to identify quality transfer prospects, but that doesn't mean that we'll be able to LAND them. Recruiting is a two-way street, and guys who we'd love to bring in might have other suitors, might have other teams willing to pay them more, or might not have interest in our program -- all of which we saw happen many times last year with the portal.

And secondly, given the wholesale roster turnover we're going to have this offseason, adding supplemental guys isn't going to be enough -- we need to land at least 2 [and probably more] top flight caliber starters to come in and be big time contributors next year. Not just depth pieces [and we'll need some of those, as well].

Given the lousy year we're having, it is going to be tough uphill sledding to land those guys, because portal transfer of that caliber will have lots of other options. And what Alex does "best" -- which appears to be identify diamonds in the rough who are undervalued and would be good system fits -- while a great skill and an asset to the program overall, might not be what the program NEEDS this off-season, at this specific point in time.

 

[MamesJungro]

DO article talks about the algorithm he and his assistant built. Maybe it's just tulyagijja
...

To pair with Kline’s scouting prowess, Tulyagijja and Kline worked together to build an algorithm to help identify and quantify talent. The algorithm is built around Kline’s scouting experience and Tulyagijja’s prior work with the Cleveland Cavaliers’ analytics department — modeling it around what worked at the NBA level.

This offseason will be the first time SU has fully used the algorithm, but Tulyagijja said it’s how the Orange found Luke Fennell and Aaron Womack in the high school circuit. Heading into last year’s portal season, Tulyagijja revealed Syracuse dove into each player’s analytics but didn’t use a specific algorithm.

“With Alex here now, I think the model hopefully is more efficient this time around,” Tulyagijja said. “Understanding that having all the money in the world, if you can’t talent evaluate, it’s not going to do you anything.”

Don’t mean to sound too much like an algorithm skeptic here, but Womack went to high school about 10 minutes from Marquette’s campus. Considering how rare 6’6” athletic wings are at the high-major level, it’s a bit jarring to credit an algorithm with identifying him as “undervalued” talent—especially when he’s coming from a metro area surrounded by strong Division I programs.

I don’t have any insider knowledge, but it’s hard to believe he wasn’t already a known quantity. And given how poorly we’ve evaluated talent and fit over the past few years, it definitely raises questions when there were no offers from peer programs

 

[kingtidge]

I love the addition of Alex Kline.

Given the lousy year we're having, it is going to be tough uphill sledding to land those guys, because portal transfer of that caliber will have lots of other options. And what Alex does "best" -- which appears to be identify diamonds in the rough who are undervalued and would be good system fits -- while a great skill and an asset to the program overall, might not be what the program NEEDS this off-season, at this specific point in time.

This is the bed we made and now we have to lie in it.

No one said it was going to be easy and many are saying running it back with a lame duck coach is pure folly.

 

[RF2044]

Don’t mean to sound too much like an algorithm skeptic here, but Womack went to high school about 10 minutes from Marquette’s campus. Considering how rare 6’6” athletic wings are at the high-major level, it’s a bit jarring to credit an algorithm with identifying him as “undervalued” talent—especially when he’s coming from a metro area surrounded by strong Division I programs.

I don’t have any insider knowledge, but it’s hard to believe he wasn’t already a known quantity. And given how poorly we’ve evaluated talent and fit over the past few years, it definitely raises questions when there were no offers from peer programs

Those are all fair questions to ask / concerns to have. But there are also factors that make me a lot more comfortable about this addition.

First, Womack plays on one of the top programs in Wisconsin, and has faced a high level of competition and excelled.

Second, he is a good shooter and a good athlete with smooth skills. He's just a bit physically undeveloped right now [not saying this is a perfect comparison, but think: BJ Johnson] who's best basketball is probably ahead of him, once his physique catches up to his level of athleticism / skill.

Third, I know for a fact that once we identified and pursued this kid, the staff was very, very worried that a couple of midwest programs were going to swoop in at the last minute and pluck him away. They were relieved when that didn't happen.

So, again -- everything you express is fair to question. I think he's perhaps a better prospect than you give him credit for, though.

 

[Ozone!]

I love the addition of Alex Kline.

He has a great track record, and will be successful no matter where he goes.

But I think the problem is that the expectations about his role and what he's trying to do might not align with what needs to transpire this specific offseason, given where we are in terms of roster construction.

My two concerns are that Alex might be phenomenal using advanced analytics and his own "eye test" to identify quality transfer prospects, but that doesn't mean that we'll be able to LAND them. Recruiting is a two-way street, and guys who we'd love to bring in might have other suitors, might have other teams willing to pay them more, or might not have interest in our program -- all of which we saw happen many times last year with the portal.

And secondly, given the wholesale roster turnover we're going to have this offseason, adding supplemental guys isn't going to be enough -- we need to land at least 2 [and probably more] top flight caliber starters to come in and be big time contributors next year. Not just depth pieces [and we'll need some of those, as well].

Given the lousy year we're having, it is going to be tough uphill sledding to land those guys, because portal transfer of that caliber will have lots of other options. And what Alex does "best" -- which appears to be identify diamonds in the rough who are undervalued and would be good system fits -- while a great skill and an asset to the program overall, might not be what the program NEEDS this off-season, at this specific point in time.

Alex is extremely good at making good relationships with high profile and quality recruits, going back to his high school days and his work with the Nicks has enhanced that. Having sufficient funds to support Basketball will only enhance that!

 

[Scooch]

Those are all fair questions to ask / concerns to have. But there are also factors that make me a lot more comfortable about this addition.

First, Womack plays on one of the top programs in Wisconsin, and has faced a high level of competition and excelled.

Second, he is a good shooter and a good athlete with smooth skills. He's just a bit physically undeveloped right now [not saying this is a perfect comparison, but think: BJ Johnson] who's best basketball is probably ahead of him, once his physique catches up to his level of athleticism / skill.

Third, I know for a fact that once we identified and pursued this kid, the staff was very, very worried that a couple of midwest programs were going to swoop in at the last minute and pluck him away. They were relieved when that didn't happen.

So, again -- everything you express is fair to question. I think he's perhaps a better prospect than you give him credit for, though.

I don’t think he was denigrating Womack as a prospect. Just that it’s strange to credit his discovery to “the algorithm”. The guy is in the running for Mr. Wisconsin. You don’t need advanced data to think he might be a decent guy to recruit.

Maybe they got in on him earlier than other schools. Although I gotta admit, what kind of data for a sophomore or junior in high school are you looking at that can be predictive of someone’s college career? I’m very skeptical about that.

In baseball, you have at least a far-fetched shot at that working out, because it’s an individual game, and you can measure things like pitch speed, launch velocity, etc., But for basketball? I don’t know that those kinds of measurables, independent of team play? are really all that data rich at the HS and AAU level.