Syracuse not a top 25 team

[reedny]

Not worried in the slightest. We're loaded. Size, athleticism, shooting, depth (on the front line, almost silly depth). Our challenges will be low-block scoring, incorporating the zone D slides and outside range for Battle. Not a lot of weaknesses though.

 

[tee1222]

The numbers tell a different story. In the past 20 seasons between the Preseason AP Poll and the Final AP Poll, we have been...
-Overrated 11 times (1997, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015)
-Underrated 7 times (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2012)
-Unranked in both pre and final polls 2 times (2008, 2016)

Syracuse

I have to ask since it looks like these are VERY misleading or I am misunderstanding this....
Are you saying that we were overrated LAST season?
We were not ranked last season:
NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN
Can't even see the final ranking, but I would think since we made the FINAL FOUR, that we would most certainly be underrated.

Please explain how we were overrated or unranked lol last season 2015-2016
Oh and unranked in both including final? Sheer stupidity. Nuff said.

 

[Eric15]

Not worried in the slightest.

Agreed. This isn't football where the position you start can be very vital, if we have a strong November we will be ranked around 20th in the blink of an eye.

 

[Eric15]

I have to ask since it looks like these are VERY misleading or I am misunderstanding this...
Are you saying that we were overrated LAST season?
We were not ranked last season:
NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN
Can't even see the final ranking, but I would think since we made the FINAL FOUR, that we would most certainly be underrated.

Please explain how we were overrated last season 2015-2016

Tee, I'm not factoring NCAA tourney success into the equation because it's just too much of a random crapshoot. I'm saying in 2016 we were correctly rated. We started the year unranked, and we finished the regular season unranked. The pollsters didn't underrate us as part of some evil anti-Syracuse conspiracy. We lost 14 games.

 

[tee1222]

Tee, I'm not factoring NCAA tourney success into the equation because it's just too much of a random crapshoot. I'm saying in 2016 we were correctly rated. We started the year unranked, and we finished the regular season unranked. The pollsters didn't make a mistake. We lost 14 games.

Seems ridiculous to me that is not taken into account, but oh well - Hulk Smash!
No convincing me that this isn't a popularity contest.

 

[EastCoast2]

I kind of expected this. These guys really don't know a lot about the larger college basketball landscape. They see a #10 seed, that was on the bubble, lose their 3 top scorers, and aren't bringing in any top 10 recruits. To these guys, only top 10, maybe top 25 recruits, matter. Remember when Harrison Barnes was preseason 1st team AA?

They don't know Battle or Chukwu, they underestimate Lydon, Gillon, Roberson, Howard, and White. Let them do it.

 

[Eric15]

Seems ridiculous to me that is not taken into account, but oh well - Hulk Smash!
No convincing me that this isn't a popularity contest.

The inverse would be: if pollsters ranked us high in the preseason before the 1991 season, and we went on to have a great season with only 4 losses, the pollsters would have been correct. It would be silly to say after our first round loss to Richmond: "oh they were wrong, we stunk."

 

[tee1222]

Tee, I'm not factoring NCAA tourney success into the equation because it's just too much of a random crapshoot. I'm saying in 2016 we were correctly rated. We started the year unranked, and we finished the regular season unranked. The pollsters didn't underrate us as part of some evil anti-Syracuse conspiracy. We lost 14 games.

I disagree. I believe it is a conspiracy. And I love shoving it back at them year after year.

 

[Brooky03]

From 1996-2016, using Men's Basketball - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football and Basketball Polls and Rankings

The over/under rated values change pretty wildly as the date ranges change.

 

[tee1222]

The inverse would be: if pollsters ranked us high in the preseason before the 1991 season, and we went on to have a great season with only 4 losses, the pollsters would have been correct. It would be silly to say after our first round loss to Richmond: "oh they were wrong, we stunk."

But I concede your point about Richmond. Still. I am talking specifically about the last 10 years or so. You know, the I Love Kentucky and Duke show playing lately on ESPN. Can't tell me that agenda driven nonsense hasn't helped their recruiting.

 

[HOFCeluck]

In this thread: Posters get outraged over meaningless data.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Are you freaking kidding me????

Where does Syracuse basketball rank in Top 25 with addition of Andrew White?

 

[tee1222]

In this thread: Posters get outraged over meaningless data.

I don't think it is meaningless. Like I said many times, this affects recruiting. So, yeah...stings a little.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't think it is meaningless. Like I said many times, this affects recruiting. So, yeah...stings a little.

Tee I would be very surprised if this impacted recruiting in a meaningful way.

 

[tee1222]

Tee I would be very surprised if this impacted recruiting in a meaningful way.

All good things, my friend - but ooh...yeah:

 

[orangefog]

Tee I would be very surprised if this impacted recruiting in a meaningful way.

It effects the national perception. Most of us are diehards and we love college basketball and we watch other teams and we follow recruiting, we know their rosters...but the great majority of people, for this example I will call them sheep. Well, the sheep may look at the top 25, they don't know whether you deserve to be on it or not, they only know that you are or you are not. Now the sheep bah quite loudly despite their lack of knowledge on the subject. Even though recruits know the teams and rosters better than anyone, they also hear the incessant bahs from the surrounding herd of sheep. Now, many of these kids want to be perceived as great among the herd, so they might be inclined to choose a school that would impress the sheep. It is 12:42, I swear I am not drunk.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I swear I am not drunk.

Good thing you ended this way...

 

[orangefog]

Good thing you ended this way...

Bottom line, the narrative effects recruiting. And being in the Top 25 consistently effects the narrative.

 

[Chicago44s]

This team is similar to the 09'-10' team. Unranked in the pre-season with a ton of talent. We lost a lot of scoring from the year before and we had a lot of talent but most folks were unsure how everyone would bounce back. Wes Johnson, Andy and Scoop were just unbelievable. Eventually #1 during the season.

That team was as good as any I'd ever seen pre Onuaku injury. That throttling of UNC was one of the most satisfying wins I've ever watched.

 

[Eric15]

This team is similar to the 09'-10' team.

The major difference is that we had two extremely good low-post players on that team in AO and Rick. This year, as of right now, we have zero. In college basketball, you can't put a price on having a polished big man who can consistently score when outside shots aren't falling -- the fact that we had two that year was a surplus of riches.

 

[OttoMets]

This team is similar to the 09'-10' team. Unranked in the pre-season with a ton of talent. We lost a lot of scoring from the year before and we had a lot of talent but most folks were unsure how everyone would bounce back. Wes Johnson, Andy and Scoop were just unbelievable. Eventually #1 during the season.

That team was as good as any I'd ever seen pre Onuaku injury. That throttling of UNC was one of the most satisfying wins I've ever watched.

And addition by subtraction: in that case, ditching some ball-dominant no-defense players; this year, losing ten years' worth of backcourt experience but replacing it with guards with real guard skills. It's an interesting parallel.

The big difference is that the 2010 team, for all its new pieces, had a lot of stealth chemistry - Scoop and Wes bonded during simultaneous redshirt years; as both a local and legacy kid who'd played pickup with these new teammates for years, Triche was as prepared to play as any freshman before or since. Though they had a lot of "new" faces as the public saw it, that was already a cohesive group behind the scenes.

There's a contrast between those guys and this team, which will rely on heavy lifting from guys who'd never seen this campus until a couple months ago and have only been playing with Howard, Lydon, and Roberson for a couple weeks.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Here we go. Who cares?!

 

[Chicago44s]

And addition by subtraction: in that case, ditching some ball-dominant no-defense players; this year, losing ten years' worth of backcourt experience but replacing it with guards with real guard skills. It's an interesting parallel.

The big difference is that the 2010 team, for all its new pieces, had a lot of stealth chemistry - Scoop and Wes bonded during simultaneous redshirt years; as both a local and legacy kid who'd played pickup with these new teammates for years, Triche was as prepared to play as any freshman before or since. Though they had a lot of "new" faces as the public saw it, that was already a cohesive group behind the scenes.

There's a contrast between those guys and this team, which will rely on heavy lifting from guys who'd never seen this campus until a couple months ago and have only been playing with Howard, Lydon, and Roberson for a couple weeks.

Who could forget the Scoop and Wes Show

 

[Melancer46]

I understand there isn't really anything else to talk about right now, but whether we're in the 15-25 range or the 25-35 range, I don't really care at this moment. I like the way our team looks on paper at least.

 

[CuseMan4]

Just win and everything else takes care of itself