Class of 2016 TE Chris Clark to Pitt

[jekelish]

Exactly. We are recruiting better kids and guess what we are also playing more talented teams in conference play every year.

Our recruiting was bad and now it is less bad, but is doesn't mean squat if you aren't bringing in 4-5 star kids.

But would you argue that Dungey, based on what we've seen, ISN'T as good as a 4-star recruit? And Moe Neal was a 4-star recruit who, for whatever reason, got bumped down. Remember, he was an ESPN 300 guy until he was inexplicably bumped.

 

[orangefog]

Agree completely. I was watching the presser from Saturday post game of Zaire, Ish and Dungey and was so impressed with the maturity of these kids.

Soph, soph and freshman. And one of those sophomores is a captain. The future IS bright. We all wish it were now and it looked promising for this year, but the nucleus is young, but I feel the strategy is strong. There may be a little bit of tweaking required, and those will be tough decisions for Shafer, but he can walk in to any kid's home and tell them that you can trust your son to come play for me. The high school coaches notice things like this.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You just might be to close to see. Yeah, we are bringing in some nice players. Players for the most part, that no one else really wanted that our coaches have identified that were better than other coaches. Do you think that is how you win long term? You don't. No one is that much smarter than the other coaches who by the way, keep beating us on the field. We need highly rated players. It gives the program juice. A 4 and a 5 star guy. That buys you time. And all this talk after the flip is really disgusting. Every day, we look more small time. Getting Clark and Washington make us look big time. Wow. Something is happening up at Syracuse. But at the end of the day, there isn't anything happening at Syracuse. maybe in three or four years, we can go 7-5. I'm sorry, I have been a defender of SS and this staff, but if I wanted to be jerked around, I'll do it myself.

Spot on. Spot on. well said. The strength is in the numbers 1-22 or whatever they recruited not 2-3 kids that have surprised us

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is irritating.

 

[TheCusian]

Exactly. We are recruiting better kids and guess what we are also playing more talented teams in conference play every year.

Our recruiting was bad and now it is less bad, but is doesn't mean squat if you aren't bringing in 4-5 star kids.

Wrong. The less bad it is the higher the % you hit on three stars that might be good. Like Dungey. Fredericks. Strickland.

We're not in the "winning the playoff" running as far as recruiting (and may never be). But even a few less 2* and a few extra 3* can mean the difference between w and l.

 

[TheCusian]

You just might be to close to see. Yeah, we are bringing in some nice players. Players for the most part, that no one else really wanted that our coaches have identified that were better than other coaches. Do you think that is how you win long term? You don't. No one is that much smarter than the other coaches who by the way, keep beating us on the field. We need highly rated players. It gives the program juice. A 4 and a 5 star guy. That buys you time. And all this talk after the flip is really disgusting. Every day, we look more small time. Getting Clark and Washington make us look big time. Wow. Something is happening up at Syracuse. But at the end of the day, there isn't anything happening at Syracuse. maybe in three or four years, we can go 7-5. I'm sorry, I have been a defender of SS and this staff, but if I wanted to be jerked around, I'll do it myself.

You win long term by bringing in better recruits than you had before. If you get more 4* and 5* guys you increase your odds and that's good. We need that. But bringing in more high 3* guys is better than 2* guys and that's good too. Win some games with those guys and recruit like hell. Getting two guys like Washington and Clark only to see us move on because of what amounts to character issues does not dim the prospects of getting more in the future. It's proof that something is working.

On both boards it's the same: progress is being made, but not quick enough for some. That's frustrating. But it doesn't erase the progress.

 

[Alsacs]

But would you argue that Dungey, based on what we've seen, ISN'T as good as a 4-star recruit? And Moe Neal was a 4-star recruit who, for whatever reason, got bumped down. Remember, he was an ESPN 300 guy until he was inexplicably bumped.

Dungey has been good but I don't think SS is the only guy capable of bringing in underrated talent.

Neal I live in Charlotte, NC and my friend's a coach at South Pointe HS which arch-rivals with Forest View. He told me Neal is good and should be a real solid college RB but Hood from UNC last year is better. I am glad we got Neal but he isn't as highly rated as Washington.

We are getting 3 star kids that most coaching staffs in P5 conferences should get. We aren't getting the 4 star kids we need as well.

Sorry your open letter for SS does absolutely nothing for me. Your opinion is fair and I respect it but completely disagree.

 

[jgeorge322]

man, im bummed. ive been supportive of shaf. makes me wonder what new info came about. must be something significant.

 

[jekelish]

I'd just like to point out: people seem to think we're done recruiting in 2016, with this attitude. We're still heavily involved with some high 3 star guys as well as some 4 star guys. And we're involved with a BUNCH of 4 star guys in 2017. At this point, if he were deciding today, I think we'd land 4-star WR Anthony White, to go along with 4-star WR Daewood Davis who, oh yeah, is already a commit. Recruiting is absolutely, unquestionably improving.

 

[jekelish]

Sorry your open letter for SS does absolutely nothing for me. Your opinion is fair and I respect it but completely disagree.

I didn't ask you your opinion but thanks for sharing anyway. Very weird that you chose to bring that up here when it's not even part of this discussion.

EDIT: I'm sorry as that came out short and probably a little jerk-y, because honestly I've always enjoyed you as a poster but that just seems like such a bizarre place to bring something I wrote up. It has nothing to do with this thread, so it felt wildly out of place.

 

[Alsacs]

I didn't ask you your opinion but thanks for sharing anyway. Very weird that you chose to bring that up here when it's not even part of this discussion.

EDIT: I'm sorry as that came out short and probably a little jerk-y, because honestly I've always enjoyed you as a poster but that just seems like such a bizarre place to bring something I wrote up. It has nothing to do with this thread, so it felt wildly out of place.

I didn't take any offense to your response. I made a statement and you responded fairly. I have no problem with differences of opinions on these that are subjective. I was just letting you know I read to your letter and don't think recruiting has been good enough to call a strength.

 

[dasher]

I'd just like to point out: people seem to think we're done recruiting in 2016, with this attitude. We're still heavily involved with some high 3 star guys as well as some 4 star guys. And we're involved with a BUNCH of 4 star guys in 2017. At this point, if he were deciding today, I think we'd land 4-star WR Anthony White, to go along with 4-star WR Daewood Davis who, oh yeah, is already a commit. Recruiting is absolutely, unquestionably improving.

I don't think we will keep Davis. A new Miami coach might offer and if he does, I don't think he will stay with us. Hope I am wrong.

 

[phil77]

This is what I don't get as an argument. How can anyone look at the young players on this roster who are contributing right now, and who have already leapfrogged the upperclassmen, and let the decommitment of one or two kids with drama issues decide whether or not recruiting has been better?

It's ridiculous to me. One or two players out of how many?

I think the players you are talking about are solid players and considerably better than what we had during our big east time but outside of maybe Dungey (if he can stay healthy) I don't see any first team all ACC players. I think they are ACC players and can start on ACC teams but they aren't unique all world talent. Again outside of Dungey they are not program changing talent. They are ACC starters which isn't a bad thing at all. Are they way above anything we have had recently at Syracuse of course. Are they way above anything else in the ACC not really.

We were told by you RW was that kind of talent. Program changing all ACC type talent. Clark a 5 star recruit seems in the same mold. But these are players turned away for "culture" reasons. I am not sure we are in position to turn that kind of talent away for "culture" reasons when the culture is looking at back to back 3-9 seasons.

Wrong. The less bad it is the higher the % you hit on three stars that might be good. Like Dungey. Fredericks. Strickland.

We're not in the "winning the playoff" running as far as recruiting (and may never be). But even a few less 2* and a few extra 3* can mean the difference between w and l.

Really when will we start seeing the difference in wins and losses?

 

[tep624]

You just might be to close to see. Yeah, we are bringing in some nice players. Players for the most part, that no one else really wanted that our coaches have identified that were better than other coaches. Do you think that is how you win long term? You don't.

That may not be a winning formula for long term growth and forward progression, but it is most definitely the formula for turning a program around and creating a base from which to build.

When you're down, 4 and 5 star guys aren't generally knocking on your door and when they do, they usually have issues. So you have to go out and find the undervalued guys. And that is what this staff has done.

 

[jekelish]

That may not be a winning formula for long term growth and forward progression, but it is most definitely the formula for turning a program around and creating a base from which to build.

When you're down, 4 and 5 star guys aren't generally knocking on your door and when they do, they usually have issues. So you have to go out and find the undervalued guys. And that is what this staff has done.

This. You have to build the foundation before you can erect the tower.

 

[texascpa]

Unbelievable.

 

[dasher]

This. You have to build the foundation before you can erect the tower.

By the way, add Blair to the list as well.

 

[tep624]

Unbelievable.

No it's actually very believable.

 

[jekelish]

By the way, add Blair to the list as well.

You're putting a kid whose grades didn't pan out on Shafer? Really?

 

[dasher]

That may not be a winning formula for long term growth and forward progression, but it is most definitely the formula for turning a program around and creating a base from which to build.

When you're down, 4 and 5 star guys aren't generally knocking on your door and when they do, they usually have issues. So you have to go out and find the undervalued guys. And that is what this staff has done.

Look, I like SS. And I give having patience a bad name. I never complain about us not winning. This is a bit more than that. I'm sure that the staff learned something about Clark, or most probably, his time at UCLA, that made him unacceptable to us. He left there rather quickly. But we keep getting punched in the gut. And if you want to build a fan base that can actually fill your place on homecoming, you have to close the deal somewhere along the line. We don't do it on the field and getting solid 3 star players isn't going to win in this league and it sure isn't going to excite the fan base.

 

[dasher]

You're putting a kid whose grades didn't pan out on Shafer? Really?

No. I'm putting the fact that we put our eggs in the basket of a kid that other schools stayed away from because of his grades on SS. It looks good on paper to say we have a 4 star recruit. Oh, he didn't make it to school. Well, you can't blame the staff. Every highly rated kid we get, we lose for some reason.

 

[Ringostar57]

The circus ain't coming to town.

 

[rrlbees]

Exactly, and Shafer is trying to establish a culture. Even one kid can disrupt that. You may or may not be able to win more quickly taking a bunch of troubled highly ranked players, but that quickly catches up to you. The recruiting will continue to improve, as will the record. And, we will have a group of young men that are easy to root for.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/chris-clark-te.80643/page-4#post-1492409

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

This is what I don't get as an argument. How can anyone look at the young players on this roster who are contributing right now, and who have already leapfrogged the upperclassmen, and let the decommitment of one or two kids with drama issues decide whether or not recruiting has been better?

It's ridiculous to me. One or two players out of how many?

The goal isnt for Shafer to out recruit Marrone, Robinson or Pasqualoni. The goal is to out recruit our peer schools (PITT, BC, Wake, NC State, Louisville, Duke, etc) and then to eventually land recruits the biggest programs are after.

 

[jekelish]

The goal isnt for Shafer to out recruit Marrone, Robinson or Pasqualoni. The goal is to out recruit our peer schools (PITT, BC, Wake, NC State, Louisville, Duke, etc) and then to eventually land recruits the biggest programs are after.

Agreed. But you have to start somewhere. And he's starting by building up the quality of the players right now. You aren't going to jump from crappy 2-star recruits to nothing but 5-star recruits overnight. You have to lay the foundation first.