Team is probably a bit better than we give it credit

[Ghost]

I get your humor. His spot is the 3 and Hughes isn't coming out of the game as far as I can see.

Well, honestly I see no reason why we haven't tried that yet for a few minutes here or there. I assume Bras is far more spazzy and inept then he lets on his limited minutes.
He's no worse at any major secondary skill than most of the guys we throw out there game-to-game. Marek and Hughes are fairly multi-dimensional, and everyone else is kinda, blah.

So, as to why we couldn't try that lineup on occasion, I have no idea.

I'm guessing he can't practice.

He shot about 40% in Italy from 3, seems to shoot fine in games (very limited sample), by rep is a good shooter, and when he played against NCST last year, seemed really fine on defense in the one game where he got decent run. He's weak AF.....but that seems to be the type of player we covet down low. Sooooooooooo, not really seeing it, so I'm guessing he really, really sucks at practice or is being groomed to play PG down the road when we turn back into a defensive team in 3 years.

Truthfully, he would probably take an ill-advised mid-range jumper, or turn the ball over trying to dribble, and that's too much for us to tolerate right now. We're going with the best of the worst, and we'll ride it all year long because they minimize mistakes.

 

[OrangeDW]

We have 4 good players ones a transfer from ECU and the other 3 are white boys with serious limitations.

Serious limitations like falling down and missing layups after jumping sideways on the path to shooting 35%, and a PG who can’t dribble if anyone is guarding him?

 

[malpearl31]

Well, honestly I see no reason why we haven't tried that yet for a few minutes here or there. I assume Bras is far more spazzy and inept then he lets on his limited minutes.
He's no worse at any major secondary skill than most of the guys we throw out there game-to-game. Marek and Hughes are fairly multi-dimensional, and everyone else is kinda, blah.

So, as to why we couldn't try that lineup on occasion, I have no idea.

I'm guessing he can't practice.

He shot about 40% in Italy from 3, seems to shoot fine in games (very limited sample), by rep is a good shooter, and when he played against NCST last year, seemed really fine on defense in the one game where he got decent run. He's weak AF...but that seems to be the type of player we covet down low. Sooooooooooo, not really seeing it, so I'm guessing he really, really sucks at practice or is being groomed to play PG down the road when we turn back into a defensive team in 3 years.

Truthfully, he would probably take an ill-advised mid-range jumper, or turn the ball over trying to dribble, and that's too much for us to tolerate right now. We're going with the best of the worst, and we'll ride it all year long because they minimize mistakes.

Hopefully Bras seeing the court for 8 minutes in a relatively close game means that he has shown enough in practice to get another chance to crack the rotation. It would help his case if he’d grab a rebound, though.

I am all for a lineup along the lines of: Hughes and either JG3 or Buddy at the guard spots, plus Braswell, Quincy and Marek at the 5 spot. Depending on the opponent, that lineup could potentially defend and rebound well enough - and still have enough shooting/playmaking to be dangerous.

 

[dasher]

Unfortunately, Buddy and any other guard are a terrible combo for the defense at the top of the zone.

Joe actually does a decent job.

Not totally fair. Joe is right there with Buddy in below average defense.

 

[dasher]

Lol. Wow. People post some crazy stuff on this board, but this may be an all-timer.

Stewart on this team makes it competitive. We still have a Mac-level back court with no depth.

To call joe and Buddy Mac level talent is crazy talk to me.

 

[Gabjon]

There were several 3pt shots on Joe's side of the zone where Joe wasn't even in view when the shot went up. Buddy had a few hit in his face that happens, but at least he there on the contest.

 

[Ghost]

To call joe and Buddy Mac level talent is crazy talk to me.

I think if you reverse it, and think about it from the perspective of a normal SU team, from 5+ years ago, if you saw that backcourt on another ACC team, you would be salivating.

In the NCAAT you would be frightened though a tiny bit, because that's one MAC-level backcourt that might just bury the zone with threes. You'd feel pretty good though, because they're super slow.

I think it's an apt description.

 

[Fly Rodder]

To call joe and Buddy Mac level talent is crazy talk to me.

It's harsh, but I think, in general, the gap between the two isn't as great as maybe it once was. Also when players can be exceptional at one or two components of the game and below average at others tends to narrow the gap. I like Buddy and JG3 and think they can be fine ACC players, but having both of them on the court at the same time for 40 mpg is asking for trouble. Especially when the bigs aren't particularly big and/or have their own significant limitations.

It's unfortunate that neither Carey or Goodine are capable of playing minutes this season and the team is again shorthanded for what feels like the 10th season in a row.

 

[malpearl31]

It's harsh, but I think, in general, the gap between the two isn't as great as maybe it once was. Also when players can be exceptional at one or two components of the game and below average at others. I like Buddy and JG3 and think they can be fine ACC players, but having both of them on the court at the same time for 40 mpg is asking for trouble. Especially when the bigs aren't particularly big and/or have their own significant limitations.

It's unfortunate at the neither Carey or Goodine are capable of playing minutes this season and the team is again shorthanded for what feels like the 10th season in a row.

If you really look around at ACC backcourts, I think you’ll see a lot of “MAC-level talent” around the league this year. I agree with you that the talent gap between the ACC and your typical mid-major school is much smaller than it was say, 20 years ago.

Louisville is giving 30 minutes per game to Ryan McMahon, and Lamarr Kimble (formerly of the Atlantic 10) features heavily in their backcourt rotation. Do Virginia’s Kihei Clark and Casey Morsell really stand out as superior talents that are head and shoulders above Buddy and JG3? With Cole Anthony hurt, UNC is trotting some guys out there that are nothing special (including a grad transfer from the vaunted Big South Conference). Is Braxton Beverly really a superior talent for NC State?

 

[Jake]

To call joe and Buddy Mac level talent is crazy talk to me.

IMHO they are players who should be role players at this point in their careers in the ACC. Mid major teams play players like this big minutes because they would be studs in those leagues.

It’s not to say won’t improve to be good ACC players. But they’re not there yet. They should have high level ACC players ahead of them - they don’t. But even as upper class men, they are players with physical limitations that can’t be improved upon.

It is harsh.

 

[CousCuse]

IMHO they are players who should be role players at this point in their careers in the ACC. Mid major teams play players like this big minutes because they would be studs in those leagues.

It’s not to say won’t improve to be good ACC players. But they’re not there yet. They should have high level ACC players ahead of them - they don’t. But even as upper class men, they are players with physical limitations that can’t be improved upon.

It is harsh.

We've traded some defense for a lot more offense. I don't think there are higher level shooters than those guys and that is the skill they are playing for.

 

[kcsu]

Crazy to see those stats, but when's the last time we ran offensive sets for our big in the post on a consistent basis? I can't imagine him putting up 18 ppg at the Cuse

JB would have him playing about 8 minutes a game behind Sid and Marek sitting next to JC and we would be judging his body language.

 

[two3zone]

JB would have him playing about 8 minutes a game behind Sid and Marek sitting next to JC and we would be judging his body language.

Bingo. We would hear quotes "he's just not there on defense, we hoped he would be".

 

[SWC75]

Bingo. We would hear quotes "he's just not there on defense, we hoped he would be".

I think he'd be getting John Wallace minutes - at least:

John Wallace College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Wallace - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

John Wallace was the blue chipper who grew up in Rochester as an SU and didn't care that they were on probation - he was coming here anyway. he wound up leading us to the national title game and pulling us out of the hole we were in. Isaiah Stewart could have been that guy this time around.

 

[JoeySimz]

I think he'd be getting John Wallace minutes - at least:

John Wallace College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Wallace - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

John Wallace was the blue chipper who grew up in Rochester as an SU and didn't care that they were on probation - he was coming here anyway. he wound up leading us to the national title game and pulling us out of the hole we were in. Isaiah Stewart could have been that guy this time around.

Real talk

 

[sufandu]

If IS was on Syracuse, he would be plastered all over the ACC network and be lauded in the NYC media which would have seriously upped his draft spot and subsequent contract. Going to a college basketball back water has cost him major money.

The media has litttle to no impact on draft stock. The NBA knew about him before he set foot on campus. The only time a tourney run influences the draft is if a guy suddenly blows up like Malachi Richardson. An already known prospect will not be hurt, if his team doesn't make a run.

 

[sufandu]

I think he'd be getting John Wallace minutes - at least:

John Wallace College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Wallace - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

John Wallace was the blue chipper who grew up in Rochester as an SU and didn't care that they were on probation - he was coming here anyway. he wound up leading us to the national title game and pulling us out of the hole we were in. Isaiah Stewart could have been that guy this time around.

Maybe. That was also before JB went into the rut he has seemed to fall into.

Interestingly, that '96 run was probably the first time JB used the zone as our primary defense.

 

[two3zone]

I think he'd be getting John Wallace minutes - at least:

John Wallace College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Wallace - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

John Wallace was the blue chipper who grew up in Rochester as an SU and didn't care that they were on probation - he was coming here anyway. he wound up leading us to the national title game and pulling us out of the hole we were in. Isaiah Stewart could have been that guy this time around.

Why would a freshman big man get minutes here?
Who was the last one? Watkins and Roberts?

McDonalds All American Fab Melo didnt. McDonalds All American Rakeem Christmas didn't.

 

[SWC75]

Maybe. That was also before JB went into the rut he has seemed to fall into.

Interestingly, that '96 run was probably the first time JB used the zone as our primary defense.

We were famously a zone team in the Roy's Runts era.

 

[sufandu]

We were famously a zone team in the Roy's Runts era.

That was before my time.

 

[SWC75]

That was before my time.

They decided to play zone anyway.

 

[CousCuse]

The media has litttle to no impact on draft stock. The NBA knew about him before he set foot on campus. The only time a tourney run influences the draft is if a guy suddenly blows up like Malachi Richardson. An already known prospect will not be hurt, if his team doesn't make a run.

So your saying that if he played big games against Duke, UNC, UVA, and Louisville it wouldn't alter his draft rating. OKAY.

 

[sufandu]

So your saying that if he played big games against Duke, UNC, UVA, and Louisville it wouldn't alter his draft rating. OKAY.

"Okay" me all you want. You don't understand the NBA draft. Playing those teams help him no more than the games he's already playing. It's not like Washington is D3. They can see his skillset, size, and athleticism. That's all that matters. The NBA drafts entirely on potential upside. They don't need to see guys play against Duke, UVA, or UNC. Ja Morrant played for Murray St. And was the #2 pick. Rui Hachimura played in a crap conference for Gonzaga and was the #9 pick. Bazley was a first round pick with them not even seeing him play for a year.

 

[jdubs30]

And they are here for 3 years - and neither is going to get once iota quicker or more athletic - I like them - but they be on the court at the same time as least as possible

No but... the longer they’re here and play together they better they’ll get at the zone. Their instincts will improve and they’ll rotate better. Also we don’t have to hold teams to 55 to win, offensively I think they will be very good so they have more leeway on defense.

How many times have we complained that we recruit athletes not basketball players? Were starting an underclassmen backcourt that has a very good IQ and are deadly from 3.

You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Ghost]

No but... the longer they’re here and play together they better they’ll get at the zone. Their instincts will improve and they’ll rotate better. Also we don’t have to hold teams to 55 to win, offensively I think they will be very good so they have more leeway on defense.

How many times have we complained that we recruit athletes not basketball players? Were starting an underclassmen backcourt that has a very good IQ and are deadly from 3.

You can’t have it both ways.

I feel like we're drifting off into Trevor Cooney land where some guys get labeled as deadly three point shooters and get a 10 point bump on their percentage just...because. I mean, one guy is 38% for his career whilst averaging over 9+ per game this year, and the other guy is 34%.

I'm not saying they won't be deadly, but who knows. There are 40 players just in the ACC with 30 plus 3 point attempts shooting over 30%. Buddy has the 20th highest percentage out of 40, and JGIII is 31st. Meanwhile, Eli is 9th. That's just in the ACC.

Not really the greatest trade-off for 40 MPG really bad defensive players. I'd like it both ways - or at least I think we could mix it up a bit more. It's not like they're currently the deadliest shooters on the planet.