Texas, Oklahoma reach out to the SEC

[baggerbob]

The longshot bet - Texas to the ACC. Oklahoma to the B1G.

The ACC should be inviting Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St.
Still leaves room for Notre Dame and another at a future date.

 

[nd1973]

Survive? That seems dramatic, no?

Why does the ACC collapse if FSU ever leaves?

The biggest issue the ACC has is the lack of competitive football and the money difference. Clemson and FSU see their in-state competition getting nearly double them (going to be triple if Tex and OU come) and that will bring instability. FSU getting 32 million, and Florida gets 72-90 (with new contracts) million per year it will bring complaints.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I can't see any scenario where UNC or UVA want to leave the ACC. This conference is theirs, the money is good, the institutional fit is perfect. Pillar schools from the long-time, stable 4 conferences (ACC, SEC, B10, P12) don't leave.

Honestly, I think people lose their minds a little when it comes to conference stuff. Despite all the rumors and drama 10 years ago, the changes were all pretty logical. Scenarios like the ACC adding 4 mediocre Big 12 schools is not logical, IMHO.

It is highly unlikely that the ACC goes away. UNC-UVA-Duke will stay as long as possible. And remember they care more about BBall than FB so less revenue isn't the biggest of deals.

For the ACC to breakup the money would need to be ludicrous. Which means Clemson and FSU would need to leave. The SEC doesn't want them and the B1G is highly unlikely.

The internet obsession with 4 x 16 is weird. If there is value in 18 teams a conference will do it. If there is no value in 16 teams a conference will not do it. I don't see a way the P12 gets to 16 teams now. What is the point? If every conference goes to 10 games they will just play 10 of the 11 teams. There is no gain in going larger or loss in being smaller.

Look at the P12's options and people think they go past 12? Fresno State, San Diego State, Boise State, UNLV, Nevada, Utah State, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State. Who are the best 4 teams from that? Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Boise State? Yuck.

Kansas makes zero sense for the ACC. WV IMO does. They have a nice brand in both sports and have a history with many teams already. They also help the presence in the MD/DC area. If divisions are not required 15 FB is doable. You can play 5 x 3/3/3 or 4 x 5/5 if you go to 9 games.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

ACC is basically just trying to survive.
They aren’t adding.
If Florida State holds the conference stability.

If FSU left, were replaced with UCF, and Dabo stays at Clemson, the ACC would be fine. Losing FSU and Clemson taking a big step back or leaving is the only shot of the ACC falling apart. And even then UNC-UVA-Duke would wait a few years to see how the dust $ettled before thinking of going.

 

[TheCusian]

Lots of this is regional powers doing things to cement their money and clout at the expense of long term health of the sport

The SEC needs a strong B1G, ACC, PAC12 more than they think. "We did it for TV money" will be silly if the product takes a dive

 

[Alsacs]

Survive? That seems dramatic, no?

Why does the ACC collapse if FSU ever leaves?

The conference would be picked apart if Florida State left.
It would force UNC and UVA to look their own ways.

 

[Bayside44]

The conference would be picked apart if Florida State left.
It would force UNC and UVA to look their own ways.

If UNC and UVA could just play each other in every sport they'd be happy as clams (I'm exaggerating obviously but you get my point).

Not sure where FSU can go.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The conference would be picked apart if Florida State left.
It would force UNC and UVA to look their own ways.

Disagree.

1st where is FSU going? If they went SEC or B1G it would only hurt them competitively. They are a mess of a program and money won't fix that.

2nd losing FSU's brand would hurt, but competitively an ACC UCF would be a better team than non ACC FSU. Is ESPN going to really reduce the TV contract, especially if Clemson is still Clemson?

3rd UNC-UVA-Duke will be happier making $30m a year in the ACC than making $45m a year in the B1G or SEC. That money gap will hurt in FB but they aren't FB schools.

It might make NC State and VA Tech look toward the SEC bet even then the ACC could survive those losses with Cincy and WV, which actually might be better for the TV contract.

 

[Scooch]

The conference would be picked apart if Florida State left.
It would force UNC and UVA to look their own ways.

Why? Why would UNC and be UVA be "forced" to leave? What magical power of attraction does FSU hold?

If people want to lay out cases I'm interested in hearing them. But I don't fathom this supposed self-evident notion that FSU leaving the ACC would cause it to collapse.

 

[Alsacs]

Why? Why would UNC and be UVA be "forced" to leave? What magical power of attraction does FSU hold?

If people want to lay out cases I'm interested in hearing them. But I don't fathom this supposed self-evident notion that FSU leaving the ACC would cause it to collapse.

Florida State and Clemson matter a lot for football.
I get the idea UCF can replace FSU on the field but brands matter.

UVA and UNC would see the ACC as dying if a lynchpin could be taken IMO.
Now the SEC won’t touch FSU and that is why I am saying if I were running the B1G my response to OU and UT to the SEC is to call FSU and Clemson from the ACC.

I don’t believe the B1G wants Florida State so that is why I am honestly not worried about the ACC crumbling.

I don’t see conferences going beyond 16 that is where I and KingOTTO disagree.

I think Florida State would be used by the Big Ten like Missouri was.
The Big Ten was looking at Missouri for the 12th school until Nebraska was like wait why do you want Missouri when you can have us and at the last minute took the spot.

Florida State could be used by the Big Ten the same way to get Notre Dame or North Carolina.

 

[Alsacs]

Disagree.

1st where is FSU going? If they went SEC or B1G it would only hurt them competitively. They are a mess of a program and money won't fix that.

2nd losing FSU's brand would hurt, but competitively an ACC UCF would be a better team than non ACC FSU. Is ESPN going to really reduce the TV contract, especially if Clemson is still Clemson?

3rd UNC-UVA-Duke will be happier making $30m a year in the ACC than making $45m a year in the B1G or SEC. That money gap will hurt in FB but they aren't FB schools.

It might make NC State and VA Tech look toward the SEC bet even then the ACC could survive those losses with Cincy and WV, which actually might be better for the TV contract.

NC State can’t do anything without UNC’s approval.
UNC is the flagship university and controls the UNC school Network.

Thus they own the committees and NC State is part of that. Thus they would need permission to leave and UNC-CH would never allow State to leave unless they are leaving.

VPI is kinda in debt to UVA over 2003 and they won’t screw UVA either.

 

[Scooch]

Florida State and Clemson matter a lot for football.
I get the idea UCF can replace FSU on the field but brands matter.

UVA and UNC would see the ACC as dying if a lynchpin could be taken IMO.
Now the SEC won’t touch FSU and that is why I am saying if I were running the B1G my response to OU and UT to the SEC is to call FSU and Clemson from the ACC.

I don’t believe the B1G wants Florida State so that is why I am honestly not worried about the ACC crumbling.

I don’t see conferences going beyond 16 that is where I and KingOTTO disagree.

I think Florida State would be used by the Big Ten like Missouri was.
The Big Ten was looking at Missouri for the 12th school until Nebraska was like wait why do you want Missouri when you can have us and at the last minute took the spot.

Florida State could be used by the Big Ten the same way to get Notre Dame or North Carolina.

No offense, but I kinda have to discount everything you say after "UVA and UNC would see the ACC as dying if a lynchpin could be taken IMO." That's simply not true, wildly hyperbolic, and complete and total conjecture. Those schools are among the lynchpins of the ACC, not FSU.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Those of us with Newhouse degrees smirk

Whitman too

 

[Alsacs]

No offense, but I kinda have to discount everything you say after "UVA and UNC would see the ACC as dying if a lynchpin could be taken IMO." That's simply not true, wildly hyperbolic, and complete and total conjecture. Those schools are among the lynchpins of the ACC, not FSU.

If FSU leaves the ACC the conference is in major trouble. I would bet the conference would lose a lot more.
We can agree to disagree.
It’s just not going to stop at one domino at that point.

 

[DaCuse]

Ex-A&M prez: 'Agreement' should nix expansion

Former Texas A&M president R. Bowen Loftin says there is a "gentlemen's agreement" between SEC schools giving members "absolute veto power" over addition of another school from their state.

www.espn.com

 

[Chip]

Adding four mediocre B12 schools would be totally on-brand for the Pac 12, so I wouldn't put it past them.

I was listening to ESPNU radio on SiriusXM and this is what they kept talking about, that none of the 8 remaining Big 12 schools are very attractive at all, so why would any conference go after them?

I have to say I am warming up to this 4 division, 4 team model. Would keep everyone playing each other more often and make it feel like a real conference.

I've figured it all out for Pac-12. They go with 4 from Wash/Oregon, 4 Cali, 4 AZ/CO/Utah, 4 Baylor, TT, TCU, Okie State. I feel like Costanza working out trades for Steinbrenner.

ACC just picks up WVU, goes with 3 divisions of 5 until ND is ready.

Kansas, K State and Iowa State can join the AAC. It's supposed to cover all of America after all.

I need a new job.

 

[Sherman20]

Florida State and Clemson matter a lot for football.
I get the idea UCF can replace FSU on the field but brands matter.

UVA and UNC would see the ACC as dying if a lynchpin could be taken IMO.
Now the SEC won’t touch FSU and that is why I am saying if I were running the B1G my response to OU and UT to the SEC is to call FSU and Clemson from the ACC.

I don’t believe the B1G wants Florida State so that is why I am honestly not worried about the ACC crumbling.

I don’t see conferences going beyond 16 that is where I and KingOTTO disagree.

I think Florida State would be used by the Big Ten like Missouri was.
The Big Ten was looking at Missouri for the 12th school until Nebraska was like wait why do you want Missouri when you can have us and at the last minute took the spot.

Florida State could be used by the Big Ten the same way to get Notre Dame or North Carolina.

In the world of mega conferences, I think the Big 10 would be happy to expand their footprint into Florida, Georgia and/or South Carolina (with FSU, Clemson and Ga Tech), especially if that meant shaking loose elite academic institutions like North Carolina, Virginia and Duke from the ACC to add to the expansion. That’s what I was saying this morning. I agree that 20 team super leagues seem nutso but I don’t think it’s at all out of the realm of possibility. The Big 10 is gonna feel the need to keep up with the SEC long term. This is what I was saying this morning. Where I think we disagree is on GOR. I think that’s a big deterrent to going down the expansion road for these big conferences and schools.

 

[elimunelson]

If FSU leaves the ACC the conference is in major trouble. I would bet the conference would lose a lot more.
We can agree to disagree.
It’s just not going to stop at one domino at that point.

To me at some point other conferences need other conferences to survive. If it ends up being the B10 and SEC I don't even understand college sports at that point.

The ACC will survive if FSU leaves is my hot take. FSU isn't going anywhere is my other hot take. I would be thoroughly surprised if the ACC takes on water in this latest round of movement. ESPN is invested which would mean something. At some point the movement will impact basketball which is a revenue creator. And FSU has built a program that competes in the ACC.

I've been wrong alot but i'll be shocked if in three weeks there is a "FSU leaving the ACC for the Norris Division" thread

 

[Scooch]

If FSU leaves the ACC the conference is in major trouble. I would bet the conference would lose a lot more.
We can agree to disagree.
It’s just not going to stop at one domino at that point.

Fair enough. If FSU wants to be the test case for breaking a GOR they're welcome to endure that pain. I don't think it'd end well.

 

[Chip]

In the world of mega conferences, I think the Big 10 would be happy to expand their footprint into Florida, Georgia and/or South Carolina (with FSU, Clemson and Ga Tech), especially if that meant shaking loose elite academic institutions like North Carolina, Virginia and Duke from the ACC to add to the expansion. That’s what I was saying this morning. I agree that 20 team super leagues seem nutso but I don’t think it’s at all out of the realm of possibility. The Big 10
Is gonna feel the need to keep up with the SEC long term. This is what I was saying this morning. Where I think we disagree is on GOR. I think that’s a big deterrent to going down the expansion road for these big conferences and schools.

Do they want to expand into those states at this point? Does it get them enough incremental money to increase the payout per team?

Do the alums of those schools want to join a midwestern conference?

I don't think this stuff is that simple. It will be a seismic shift, so anything is possible, and maybe they play to any inferiority complex FSU might feel by earning so much less than the Gators or GT might feel to UGA. Even Clemson (who is light years better on the field) earning less conference dough than South Carolina.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I was listening to ESPNU radio on SiriusXM and this is what they kept talking about, that none of the 8 remaining Big 12 schools are very attractive at all, so why would any conference go after them?

I have to say I am warming up to this 4 division, 4 team model. Would keep everyone playing each other more often and make it feel like a real conference.

I've figured it all out for Pac-12. They go with 4 from Wash/Oregon, 4 Cali, 4 AZ/CO/Utah, 4 Baylor, TT, TCU, Okie State. I feel like Costanza working out trades for Steinbrenner.

ACC just picks up WVU, goes with 3 divisions of 5 until ND is ready.

Kansas, K State and Iowa State can join the AAC. It's supposed to cover all of America after all.

I need a new job.

It will be tough for those 8 schools. Without a TV deal they won't be able to get MWC or AAC teams to even join. They would be the best G5 conference but will the money be there to entice other schools?

 

[All4SU]

The future of college athletics was accurately predicted fifty years ago by that prodigy of prognostication, Joel Grey…
The Future of Football

 

[Scooch]

To me at some point other conferences need other conferences to survive. If it ends up being the B10 and SEC I don't even understand college sports at that point.

At a certain number these aren't conferences any more, they're leagues. Maybe there's a future of 3 or 4 major college athletics leagues, each housing 20+ teams. They could call themselves a conference, but they wouldn't function like one.

 

[SU94]

ACC is basically just trying to survive.
They aren’t adding.
If Florida State holds the conference stability.

I think this FSU to the B1G notion you keep referencing is really, really unlikely. Like 1/1000. FSU’s best bet is to not separate themselves from the rest of southern football by playing Minnesota and Purdue every week, but to get their sh!+ together and reclaim the spot atop the ACC that they have ceded to Clemson. It’s not like it is unattainable.

They might not have the right coach, but it is a lot more realistic to fix that than to play games 800-1200 miles away twice a month and still having to overcome Ohio State. Just start beating Dabo and everything will be fine for the Noles, who are not leaving the ACC.

 

[elimunelson]

At a certain number these aren't conferences any more, they're leagues. Maybe there's a future of 3 or 4 major college athletics leagues, each housing 20+ teams. They could call themselves a conference, but they wouldn't function like one.

That's a great point. These conferences could just corral the entire apparatus and create their own world/league.

It's so weird to consider that maybe the B10 just absorbs the entire ACC in that scenario. Why stop at 1 school when you could create a new league and own the entire IP.