Texas, Oklahoma reach out to the SEC

[Chris02M]

The pair that matter are UNC and UVA. And if the BT could pull that off, then the entire southeast not in the SEC if up for easy pickings.

the horse would have to be out of the barn for either school to leave there acc conference though

 

[Eric15]

We should have built a stadium at the fairgrounds, there was talk of a 65,000 seat stadium.

Bob, I mean this in the nicest possible way, that would have been the worst idea in the history of ideas.

You would take away all the gameday energy that comes from being in the vicinity of the SU campus, quad, Marshall Street, etc. and put it in a giant soulless parking lot like they have at UConn. It would be like the mistake of putting the Chiefs stadium on the Northside part 2.

It would be basically impossible for us to fill a 65k football stadium. If we were to build a new stadium (which I hope we never do because the Dome is perfect) it should actually be smaller. Closer to 40k with individual seats.

I'll never understand people's fascination with stadiums in giant parking lots. The SU tailgating scene is very underrated. The scene across the street from Marshall Square Mall where I tailgate with my friends when I'm in town is fantastic.

 

[Alsacs]

ND goes out of their way to protect their own at the expense of other teams, we know we saw you at MSG for BE tournaments, but didn’t see the Big East logo on your field. You’ll excuse our saltiness as we’ve already been on the short end of your independence.

Conferences are about joining together to have more clout, more revenue, more power. You’re been half in for a long time. We’ve been all in.

I also don’t know why joining a conference is seen as a negative - we gain as much as we give that’s kind of the thing.

They joined the conference last year due to Covid.
If they truly cared about independence they would have cancelled their season last year like UConn did.

It’s such a fraud excuse for them to keep their independence.

Notre Dame uses their leverage like no one else.
Ohio State doesn’t need Purdue or Minnesota.
Clemson doesn’t need Syracuse or Wake Forest.
Alabama doesn’t need Vanderbilt or Ole Miss.
USC doesn’t need Oregon State or Washington State.

I am just sick of the arrogance of Notre Dame. You don’t want to be in the ACC that is fine.
Go join the Big Ten and enjoy that.

 

[TheCusian]

Fair enough, but reading post about how greedy and immoral ND is because they won't do what outside fanbases want us to is just exhausting and not true in reality. JUst want people is observe their own schools greed and self-preservation also.

I think about a Big East with a ND in football and wonder if we’d still be playing Miami and VaTech.

The problem is conferences work best when they are all equally pushing towards a common goal. Looking out for your own interests harms the teams you’ve entered into half agreements with.

ND isn’t doing what it’s doing out of self-preservation, like we did. They are grafting on in ways that kind of help. If they have another chance to save the conference that threw them a lifeline but decide not to based on “history of independence” we’ll see it as a giant middle finger

 

[oldpinepoint]

ND should do what’s best for ND and leverage everything they can. If Syracuse was in their position we would do the same.

 

[WickedOrange]

Even though we are in Central NY we have plenty of cache in the New York TV market. That alone will give us a place at the table somewhere when all is said and done. I don’t think any current P5 team will be left out honestly, just a question of how many conferences will there be, 4 or 3.

I wish i had you optimism. I the ACC is in headed for stormy seas. The weaker football schools (which includes Syracuse) should be extremely alarmed. The landscape changes have been concentrating the money and talent. Syracuse can't complete with the factories in this day and age.

 

[qdawgg]

Next week will be fun with all the click bait articles. Already started. Just saw this and an OK st one earlier.

 

[nd1973]

I think about a Big East with a ND in football and wonder if we’d still be playing Miami and VaTech.

The problem is conferences work best when they are all equally pushing towards a common goal. Looking out for your own interests harms the teams you’ve entered into half agreements with.

ND isn’t doing what it’s doing out of self-preservation, like we did. They are grafting on in ways that kind of help. If they have another chance to save the conference that threw them a lifeline but decide not to based on “history of independence” we’ll see it as a giant middle finger

Maybe, it depends. But again we are fulfilling our contract. There was a stipulation for us to join in full. If we did not do that I would agree and argue ND is failing. But we are living up to what we agreed.

 

[texascpa]

ND should do what’s best for ND and leverage everything they can. If Syracuse was in their position we would do the same.

It's interesting how most people would argue to "vote for your self-interest" yet take a different approach to something like this.

 

[Alsacs]

ND should do what’s best for ND and leverage everything they can. If Syracuse was in their position we would do the same.

Syracuse lacrosse didn’t do this when they gave up their independence to join up with the Big East lacrosse schools.

Also nobody is saying ND should do something they don’t choose to do.
It’s time for the status quo to change.
Pick a conference even if it’s the Big Ten.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This is one of those totally beside-the-point arguments RE; Notre Dame. Is anyone really shocked that they’re choosing to follow their own self interest? They do that because they can, and why not?
Who gives a rat’s patoot how or why, but they can- and as long as other leagues, and schools, and media entities are willing to give them that lofty status, you can’t blame them for taking advantage.
It’s like bitching about the pretty girl who keeps getting money and gifts from all the boys. Like she’s supposed to say no because it’s not “fair and equitable” to all the other girls? Dumb.

 

[TheCusian]

Maybe, it depends. But again we are fulfilling our contract. There was a stipulation for us to join in full. If we did not do that I would agree and argue ND is failing. But we are living up to what we agreed.

Yep.

But withholding what would help everyone else most is why you see your “partners” getting a bit fiery in the face of more uncertainty. You’re 100% right in that doing right by yourselves is top priority… but you’d be lying to yourselves if you don’t think there is good to be had by sticking with those who’ve helped in the past.

 

[TheCusian]

This is one of those totally beside-the-point arguments RE; Notre Dame. Is anyone really shocked that they’re choosing to follow their own self interest? They do that because they can, and why not?
Who gives a rat’s patoot how or why, but they can- and as long as other leagues, and schools, and media entities are willing to give them that lofty status, you can’t blame them for taking advantage.
It’s like bitching about the pretty girl who keeps getting money and gifts from all the boys. Like she’s supposed to say no because it’s not “fair and equitable” to all the other girls? Dumb.

If she dogs all her friends and leaves them in a lurch, she might turn around and have none left

 

[DoctorBombay]

If she dogs all her friends and leaves them in a lurch, she might turn around and have none left

Absolutely. Her friends might hate her guts and she might lose them all. That doesn’t mean the boys will stop sniffing around. Obviously she has something they want & that’s enough for her, no?

 

[SUskibum]

ND should do what’s best for ND and leverage everything they can. If Syracuse was in their position we would do the same.

Didn’t Cuse turn down the ACC (an upgrade even back then) in the early 90’s out of loyalty to the schools we built the Beast with?

 

[djorange1989]

I wish i had you optimism. I the ACC is in headed for stormy seas. The weaker football schools (which includes Syracuse) should be extremely alarmed. The landscape changes have been concentrating the money and talent. Syracuse can't complete with the factories in this day and age.

Not sure if I am optimistic as much as I feel that at the end of the day we will go from a team in a conference with the lowest revenue in the P5 to one with the lowest or 2nd lowest in the P5. I don’t think we will end up in the AAC or anything

 

[TheCusian]

Absolutely. Her friends might hate her guts and she might lose them all. That doesn’t mean the boys will stop sniffing around. Obviously she has something they want & that’s enough for her, no?

Loyal friends vs grubby suitors is a pretty good analogy

 

[Sherman20]

Would you prefer them to communicate to the media that they are nervous about teams being poached?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the B1G is gonna make a play in the next few years for UNC, UVA, Duke, Ga Tech, Clemson, and Florida State or Miami. That would be their best move. Makes the football and academic sides both happy and expands the conference into the southeast. Question will be getting the Big 10 stakeholders to buy into such a massive expansion—which will be necessary to pry loose UNC and UVA. I def fear for the future of Syracuse football if this happens. I think the ACC has to go on the offensive and think big—like somehow securing ND and then making a pitch to Penn State and Maryland that they’d both be more competitive in the ACC, be a better geographic and cultural fit, and with the addition of ND the TV $$$ would be better than the B1G.

 

[Todoubled23]

This reminds me of the decline and fall of the Olympics. When I was a kid - and the Olympics were kinda/sorta amateur (other than the Russians/East Germans) - the Olympics were awesome. All about nationalism - think about the US "kids" beating the vaunted Soviets in hockey in 1980. I was glued to the TV to watch the Olympics - winter or summer. Now? If I watch the Tokyo games for 10 minutes, I'll be surprised.

College football (while full of cheaters in the SEC) was fairly pure, fairly amateur until the early '90's. And conferences actually were made up of 8-10 team leagues in which every team generally played each other in conference each year. The Pac 10. The Big 10 (with actually only 10 teams). The SWC with 8 Teams. The SEC with 10 Teams. Etc. And Syracuse fell in with a group of solid independents including PSU, ND, WV, Pitt, etc.

Sure it sucked having split national titles and no playoffs. But at least there were regional rivalries and some level of parity. (Ga Tech won a title in '90. Even Syracuse went undefeated in '87.) And the bowls frankly were a lot of fun. New Years Day was awesome.

Now? The for profit motive dominates at all levels - including the cost of education. I have buddy sending his daughter from out of state to Cal Berkeley next year. It's cost him - all in - about $70K - and that's a "public school". When my mom went to Cal Berkeley in the '60's - it cost her $50 a semester.

The unrelenting need to always make more money is now causing the decline and fall of college football - at least the game that I love. I really do not give a damn if I watch another Alabama/Ohio State game again. I just don't care. And with this latest round of realignment - it only gets sillier. How much $$ is too much? These are universities - ya know NON PROFIT institutions. It's not the NFL.

Oklahoma in the SEC? Really? It's BORING if 8 out of the 10 teams in the top Ten are SEC teams - which easily could be the case next year.

Bummed about this latest round of realignment.

Harvard semester in 1913 = $150 ! Oh fed you.

 

[HtownOrange]

They joined the conference last year due to Covid.
If they truly cared about independence they would have cancelled their season last year like UConn did.

It’s such a fraud excuse for them to keep their independence.

Notre Dame uses their leverage like no one else.
Ohio State doesn’t need Purdue or Minnesota.
Clemson doesn’t need Syracuse or Wake Forest.
Alabama doesn’t need Vanderbilt or Ole Miss.
USC doesn’t need Oregon State or Washington State.

I am just sick of the arrogance of Notre Dame. You don’t want to be in the ACC that is fine.
Go join the Big Ten and enjoy that.

Respectfully, every top dog needs bottom feeders and middle of the pack opponents. They may not need specific bottom feeders and middle of the pack teams, but need them they do. You cannot Winn eleven games against top 10 or 20 schools. SU knows, we used to have a perpetually tough schedule that.most powerhouses would shun. Having known bottom feeders and middle of the pack opponents makes scheduling and perceived rivalries much easier.

Any closed system of teams has the same number of games won and games lost, the only variable is who collects the wins and who collects the losses. The SEC cannot support all winners, there isn't enough OOC games to puff up everyone's record.

The above is why Vandy and others will not leave the SEC. Bama, LSU and others believe the dead weight that is Vandy is worth carrying. As for UT and OU, they have decided that they no longer want to carry the dead weight and would rather take their chances - and a bigger paycheck - in the SEC.

Finally, I am sure ESPN have some influence in what is going on. Someone has to foot the bill for expansion. If the money wasn't there, UT and OU they would look elsewhere or stay put.

 

[orangenauburn]

ACC and PAC 12 should be divying up Big 12 remnants

ACC take WVU, Kansas, Kansas State, and add Cincy

PAC 12 take Baylor, Tech, Ok State, TCU


Iowa State can go to Big Ten and Big Ten can add Buffalo or Memphis, Tulsa, and Houston

 

[kcsu]

Here is the good news. The current payouts matter but need to be taken in consideration with length of the current GOR agreements. The ACC has time. The ACC needs to get aggressive. The media companies understand that parity is a good thing. ESPN CBS NBC FOX Amazon Netflix etc... are not going to allow one or two groups to dominate. It takes away their leverage.
SU will end up with a chair. I believe the ACC will either be the 2nd or 3rd strongest conference.
Geographic proximity doesn't matter anymore.
I can see an alliance between the Big, the pac, ND or anyone of some very strong 5 schools. Houston Central Florida are 2 that stick out.
Again, if the ACC becomes aggressive while it's GOR is in place it can win. We need to go on offense and force the action vs reacting to it

 

[Moontan]

But why did you leave?

Because the non-football schools didn’t care about football and offered no consideration to those that did.

 

[007]

This is one of those totally beside-the-point arguments RE; Notre Dame. Is anyone really shocked that they’re choosing to follow their own self interest? They do that because they can, and why not?
Who gives a rat’s patoot how or why, but they can- and as long as other leagues, and schools, and media entities are willing to give them that lofty status, you can’t blame them for taking advantage.
It’s like bitching about the pretty girl who keeps getting money and gifts from all the boys. Like she’s supposed to say no because it’s not “fair and equitable” to all the other girls? Dumb.

Your analogy would be more applicable if the "pretty girl" in the example was also a nun.

For the record, I have no problem with ND acting like everyone else and grabbing all the money they can. But, the irony is not lost that despite the mission statement and basis in faith, they are exactly like everybody else.

 

[Alsacs]

Respectfully, every top dog needs bottom feeders and middle of the pack opponents. They may not need specific bottom feeders and middle of the pack teams, but need them they do. You cannot Winn eleven games against top 10 or 20 schools. SU knows, we used to have a perpetually tough schedule that.most powerhouses would shun. Having known bottom feeders and middle of the pack opponents makes scheduling and perceived rivalries much easier.

Any closed system of teams has the same number of games won and games lost, the only variable is who collects the wins and who collects the losses. The SEC cannot support all winners, there isn't enough OOC games to puff up everyone's record.

The above is why Vandy and others will not leave the SEC. Bama, LSU and others believe the dead weight that is Vandy is worth carrying. As for UT and OU, they have decided that they no longer want to carry the dead weight and would rather take their chances - and a bigger paycheck - in the SEC.

Finally, I am sure ESPN have some influence in what is going on. Someone has to foot the bill for expansion. If the money wasn't there, UT and OU they would look elsewhere or stay put.

Of course ESPN is behind this.
They own the SEC fully now.
Getting Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC gives ESPN all of those teams home games whereas in the Big XII the football contract is divided between ESPN and Fox.

Fox has had the Texas-Oklahoma game several times in recent years.
ESPN is clearly screwing the Big XII for that reason.

ESPN is also part of the reason the ACC survived the Big Ten onslaught last cycle.

I know all conferences need bottom feeders my point was basically telling the ND fan you guys act like you are above being partners with teams below you when other blue bloods do exactly that.

I don’t expect Notre Dame to bail out the ACC. I just want them to be forced to make a decision. Enough status quo crap. If they want to join the Big Ten then let them out of the agreement with the ACC and do it.