Texas, Oklahoma reach out to the SEC

[Alsacs]

Good point here. CFB's movers and shakers need to be very careful to protect against CFB becoming regionalized to its own detriment. If 90+% of the college game's power programs play in two conferences that largely exclude the West Coast, the Northeast and the Mountain Time Zone, they'd have severely limited themselves in terms of potential reach or engagement, whether you are talking total consumers (important), streaming (growing), cable households (less so, but still important in the present) or even prospective college students (the lifeblood).

In this scenario I painted, CFB might just be trending the wrong way and a good chunk of the sporting public could resent college football for what it has become and who it has excluded.

Teams in the SEC don’t give a crap about the Northeast and West.
If college football becomes regionalized it will still be the second or third most popular sport nationally.
It will get ratings.

 

[Alsacs]

I am not joking when I say I could write a great book on this stuff if I had the time and energy.
I get for the most part everything that has happened and why.
Just need to do the interviews and spend the time doing it.

Some writer is going to make a killing when they do it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Miami’s way above Syracuse in the pecking order. Pitt as well.
Louisville is 50-50. We are above Wake.

I don’t think we will make the 2 super conference break off.
Our football really sucks. That drives the bus.
If we were Wake Forest the last 5 years then yes we would be fine.

We suck and suck badly nationally perception wise.

How? The SEC is not taking Miami. The B1G could but if they have FSU they do not need Miami too. Who the F is taking Pitt? The SEC isn't. PA is already covered by PSU. Pitt has a small fanbase and mediocre sports. They really add no value at all. The B1G isn't taking Louisville. Why would the SEC take them? They already have UK. The basketball is good but isn't a must take brand.

Football needs losers. You think Michigan fans who expect 7 home games every year and 10+ wins will be happy with 6 home games and 8 win seasons? Because that is what happens with a super league of all good football teams. You would lose fans (tickets and subscriptions that way.

SU brings a new market, good academics, streaming subscriptions thanks to BBall, and a tomato can for FB. That is a great add.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This is so wrong.
Research goes out the window as soon as it is convenient.

Ohio State voted their Big Ten partner Nebraska out of the AAU.
If research mattered then they wouldn’t have.
If research drove the Big Ten then Pitt is already in the Big Ten because of Pitt medical.

Research is used by people who want to use it as PR.

If the Big Ten could pick up Notre Dame and Alabama tomorrow they would and research wouldn’t matter.

It WILL be a factor for the B1G. They are snobby. The following schools are all AAU and good sports adds for the B1G.

Arizona, UCLA, USC, Colorado, GA Tech, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Utah, UVA, Washington.

That gets you to 25. Clemson and FSU make sense for sports and it wouldn't be a hit academically. BC and SU makes sense as well. Same goes for Oregon. Stanford fits academically (AAU) and is good at Olympic sports. They add NoCal but they have a small fan base. That gives you 31 and then Miami makes the most sense to round it out to 32. Done and done.

Edit. Remove Miami or Stanford and take Notre Dame. Forgot about them.

 

[Chip]

Football needs losers. You think Michigan fans who expect 7 home games every year and 10+ wins will be happy with 6 home games and 8 win seasons? Because that is what happens with a super league of all good football teams. You would lose fans (tickets and subscriptions that way.

I never thought this would be our slogan for survival.

 

[SU94]

Miami’s way above Syracuse in the pecking order. Pitt as well.
Louisville is 50-50. We are above Wake.

I don’t think we will make the 2 super conference break off.
Our football really sucks. That drives the bus.
If we were Wake Forest the last 5 years then yes we would be fine.

We suck and suck badly nationally perception wise.

Yeah, but to your point ... the movers and shakers that are making this decision remember what Syracuse football can be (and what SU basketball is), as they are older. What is much more important are SU's location (4th-most populous state and the anchor state of the exact region that drives television), athletic department profile (yes, hoops does have an influence and our revenues are atypical, but strong), and academic standing (really good, used to be better Nancy!).

We are not going to make it or not make it because we have not met WFU's threshold since 2016. That's silly.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I never thought this would be our slogan for survival.

Not only are we ditch diggers in FB we are a good brand. That is hard to find. Most are crappy brands.

 

[JimBoston]

That is a great PR article for WVU.
I’m all in on WVU if they rebuild the divisions to reflect the old big east

Syracuse
BC
TECH
WVU
MIAMI
PITT
Ville

Do you really think adding WVU or any of the Big 12 left behind schools adds value to the ACC? The answer is no, it's just another mouth to feed. Athletically, WVU would be a decent add, but financially, they do not move the needle at all, especially in a college sports streaming model and adding them would not help keep FSU and Clemson in the fold. Heck, the 2 most valuable college sports properties that are not in a P5 football conference are Notre Dame football and probably UConn women's basketball.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It WILL be a factor for the B1G. They are snobby. The following schools are all AAU and good sports adds for the B1G.

Arizona, UCLA, USC, Colorado, GA Tech, Kansas, Duke, UNC, Utah, UVA, Washington.

That gets you to 25. Clemson and FSU make sense for sports and it wouldn't be a hit academically. BC and SU makes sense as well. Same goes for Oregon. Stanford fits academically (AAU) and is good at Olympic sports. They add NoCal but they have a small fan base. That gives you 31 and then Miami makes the most sense to round it out to 32. Done and done.

Edit. Remove Miami or Stanford and take Notre Dame. Forgot about them.

You also need to take into account geographical divisions. We do help fill that out.

The SEC to 18 makes sense if they add VA Tech and NC State. Can't see they going past 18. Maybe they would consider Louisville, Cincinnati, or West Virginia but it doesn't see worth it.

The B1G could in theory go to 36 but that seems unlikely. If they took both Stanford and Miami (33), they could consider Cal (AAU), UConn (tomato can, market, BBall), and Pitt (AAU). But that isn't worth it. They could also try to pry away one or more of Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Missouri, Vandy who are all AAU.

No matter what Wake is screwed.

 

[SU94]

Teams in the SEC don’t give a crap about the Northeast and West.
If college football becomes regionalized it will still be the second or third most popular sport nationally.
It will get ratings.

They should, because eventually, it ~30% of the USA does not give two sh!+'s about the CFB product, it will affect their right fees. Even if they continue to grow, those fees will be less than they could be.

How can they (or the B1G) not "give a crap" about California, New York or New England?
That's ~75,000,000 people and where an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth comes from, right?

 

[Alsacs]

They should, because eventually, it ~30% of the USA does not give two sh!+'s about the CFB product, it will affect their right fees. Even if they continue to grow, those fees will be less than they could be.

How can they (or the B1G) not "give a crap" about California, New York or New England?
That's ~75,000,000 people and where an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth comes from, right?

New England doesn’t care about college football. Their are small pockets of fans who just bet on the sport but the region doesn’t care.

New York/New Jersey will follow bandwagon good teams but overall won’t care for average games.

California doesn’t care about the SEC they follow their own teams but the sport is 2-3 timezones away.
The SEC will be fine. Their own states won’t stop caring and gambling will supplement them.

 

[oldpinepoint]

They should, because eventually, it ~30% of the USA does not give two sh!+'s about the CFB product, it will affect their right fees. Even if they continue to grow, those fees will be less than they could be.

How can they (or the B1G) not "give a crap" about California, New York or New England?
That's ~75,000,000 people and where an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth comes from, right?

I think future expansion will be more about Brand and football reputation and less about where a specific school is located. Right now our football brand, reputation and commitment to football sucks.

 

[TheCusian]

They should, because eventually, it ~30% of the USA does not give two sh!+'s about the CFB product, it will affect their right fees. Even if they continue to grow, those fees will be less than they could be.

How can they (or the B1G) not "give a crap" about California, New York or New England?
That's ~75,000,000 people and where an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth comes from, right?

Exactly. The SEC is high on the smell on their own farts if they think the areas where they kill football will want to watch Arkansas vs Ole Miss. Similar to Purdue vs N

I schedule my time around Syracuse football. I watch Georgia and Florida is it’s on and I happen to flip to it. I’ll watch NC State vs WF because they are in our division.

CFB is great because it’s everywhere. We need more parity not less.

 

[TheCusian]

New England doesn’t care about college football. Their are small pockets of fans who just bet on the sport but the region doesn’t care.

New York/New Jersey will follow bandwagon good teams but overall won’t care for average games.

California doesn’t care about the SEC they follow their own teams but the sport is 2-3 timezones away.
The SEC will be fine. Their own states won’t stop caring and gambling will supplement them.

They are doing all this to be “fine”? That’s the problem when they think myopically and selfishly. Kings of a smaller kingdom.

 

[TheCusian]

I think future expansion will be more about Brand and football reputation and less about where a specific school is located. Right now our football brand, reputation and commitment to football sucks.

I think you’re overstating our lack of commitment to football. If you’re comparing us to Alabama and Ohio St, yeah. But our peers? We’re fine and in line.

 

[chugg21]

Rest of Big 12:
Baylor - Pac 12
Iowa State - Big 10
Kansas - Big 10
Kansas State - American
Oklahoma State - ACC
TCU - American
Texas Tech - Pac 12
West Virginia - ACC

 

[Alsacs]

How? The SEC is not taking Miami. The B1G could but if they have FSU they do not need Miami too. Who the F is taking Pitt? The SEC isn't. PA is already covered by PSU. Pitt has a small fanbase and mediocre sports. They really add no value at all. The B1G isn't taking Louisville. Why would the SEC take them? They already have UK. The basketball is good but isn't a must take brand.

Football needs losers. You think Michigan fans who expect 7 home games every year and 10+ wins will be happy with 6 home games and 8 win seasons? Because that is what happens with a super league of all good football teams. You would lose fans (tickets and subscriptions that way.

SU brings a new market, good academics, streaming subscriptions thanks to BBall, and a tomato can for FB. That is a great add.

Miami is way more valuable than Syracuse. I wish we were.

You are doing the sales job I get it.
We aren’t likely to be saved if people are objective.
The Big Ten isn’t going to add dead weight.
They and the SEC will add value.

Syracuse hoops fanbase is strong but again we overrate how good our basketball brand is.
ESPN isn’t putting Syracuse home games on the main network all the time. It’s when we play the other good teams for the most part.
I can see the endgame and if people want the truth we are probably more likely than not going to be screwed.

 

[Alsacs]

Rest of Big 12:
Baylor - Pac 12
Iowa State - Big 10
Kansas - Big 10
Kansas State - American
Oklahoma State - ACC
TCU - American
Texas Tech - Pac 12
West Virginia - ACC

Baylor’s a religious school.
They aren’t getting into the PAC-12 it’s part of the reason BYU isn’t in the PAC-12.

Syracuse has a better chance of getting into the Big Ten than Iowa State does.

Kansas will try to get into the Big Ten but it’s unlikely.

Oklahoma State, Kansas, Texas Tech and Iowa State should petition the PAC-12.

Baylor, West Virginia, TCU, Kansas State to the American.

 

[SU94]

New England doesn’t care about college football. Their are small pockets of fans who just bet on the sport but the region doesn’t care.

New York/New Jersey will follow bandwagon good teams but overall won’t care for average games.

California doesn’t care about the SEC they follow their own teams but the sport is 2-3 timezones away.
The SEC will be fine. Their own states won’t stop caring and gambling will supplement them.

Wait, so you tell us (and you're correct) that ESPN is invested in this change this because they want/crave Texas/OU games for themselves (as not to share with Fox), yet they should not care that ~30% of the USA has disengaged from the sport because it has regionally confined itself. And those same 30% represent an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth and are the primary home bases of corporate America and the television/entertainment industry.

That, Alsacs, does not compute.

 

[Newhouser]

ESPN got a great deal in 2010.
Swofford screwed up those negotiations.
He didn’t get proper value.

So the only solution for the ACC was to expand to force a clause put into the contract that allowed for renegotiations if expansion took place.
The ACC added Pitt and Syracuse to activate that clause.

ESPN upped the annual rights fees but got an extra 4 years tacked onto their existing deal from 2010.

Then the ACC went back to ESPN and said help us do a network.
ESPN said okay but we want a GOR and we want an extra 6 years on the deal till 2036.

So now ESPN has all ACC teams locked up till 2036.
The original deal Swofford signed in 2010 would have expired in 2024.

ESPN upped the payments to keep the conference from being raided but gobbled up the rights for a extra 12 years for a couple of million extra per team,
It was a great deal for ESPN.
This was around when the Big Ten was trying to kill the ACC.

ESPN stepped up to protect its inventory from being raided and the Big Ten going on to the market which it did and taking those teams to Fox which it did.

ESPN is doing the reverse now to the Big XII they want all of Oklahoma and Texas home inventory and away from sharing with Fox.
ESPN picked up all SEC rights for a long while.
So getting them out of the Big XII saves ESPN having to pay the Big XII a lot of money in 2024 or losing them to Fox, CBS or NBC.

That kills the Big XII and allows ESPN’s other property the American to swoop in and take any valuable Big XII leftovers for pennies on the dollar for the American and ESPN.

This chit is all done because of TV partners.

You think Swofford knew this was coming down the road and wanted to get out of dodge while he could? He retired at the perfect time.

 

[Orangefan1]

We should of invested more into football and we are what we are at this point

 

[chugg21]

Baylor’s a religious school.
They aren’t getting into the PAC-12 it’s part of the reason BYU isn’t in the PAC-12.

Syracuse has a better chance of getting into the Big Ten than Iowa State does.

Kansas will try to get into the Big Ten but it’s unlikely.

Oklahoma State, Kansas, Texas Tech and Iowa State should petition the PAC-12.

Baylor, West Virginia, TCU, Kansas State to the American.

The talking points from the last realignment aren't going to be particularly useful in this round. Baylor has good football and great basketball right now. Stanford isn't going to be able to block them out because of the religion issues. West Virginia is absolutely not going to the American. ACC would be lucky to end up with them.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Miami is way more valuable than Syracuse. I wish we were.

You are doing the sales job I get it.
We aren’t likely to be saved if people are objective.
The Big Ten isn’t going to add dead weight.
They and the SEC will add value.

Syracuse hoops fanbase is strong but again we overrate how good our basketball brand is.
ESPN isn’t putting Syracuse home games on the main network all the time. It’s when we play the other good teams for the most part.
I can see the endgame and if people want the truth we are probably more likely than not going to be screwed.

Based on what? They have no fanbase. They are only good at FB when they cheat. They do not have a commitment to FB. FSU would cover Florida, so they don't add much in markets. tehy have a dying FB brand. You are not being objective.

How is SU deadweight? We would add both cable and streaming subs for our gigantic BBall fanbase. We are still a name brand in FB. We wouldn't add much Tier 1/2 money, but when your conference is that big you cannot have every game on TV. We add the state of NY. Is that not worth anything? We are also strong academically. We make the B1G a lot more attractive for ND to join as well. We were previously on the B1G's expansion radar. The good FB schools woudl welcome a tomato can. You still need Ws. NFL style 10-6 playoff teams wouldn't cut it for most fanbases. They want 12-4 which can't happen with only strong programs.

If this is your take on, you better not write that book.

 

[Alsacs]

Wait, so you tell us (and you're correct) that ESPN is invested in this change this because they want/crave Texas/OU games for themselves (as not to share with Fox), yet they should not care that ~30% of the USA has disengaged from the sport because it has regionally confined itself. And those same 30% represent an inordinate percentage of the USA's wealth and are the primary home bases of corporate America and the television/entertainment industry.

That, Alsacs, does not compute.

Gambling will get the TV ratings for football.

I don’t get what you are saying the ratings will still be there nationally.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Baylor’s a religious school.
They aren’t getting into the PAC-12 it’s part of the reason BYU isn’t in the PAC-12.

Syracuse has a better chance of getting into the Big Ten than Iowa State does.

Kansas will try to get into the Big Ten but it’s unlikely.

Oklahoma State, Kansas, Texas Tech and Iowa State should petition the PAC-12.

Baylor, West Virginia, TCU, Kansas State to the American.

Kansas makes more in Tier 3 than Oklahoma. They would be attractive for the BTN and any future streaming services. There are only so many Tier 1/2 TV slots in a week. You can't fit every game.