The all-inclusive Cuse Coaching Thread

[Rocco]

Chris man you can't be serious.

Being a HC is completely different than being a coordinator. You are responsible for everything as a HC. You go to all meetings not just your side of the ball. You are the leader of the game plan.

Then on Saturdays you make the decisions. Being a coordinator you always want to go for 4th downs but as HC you have to adjust when to go and when not too.

Risk has been our problem. We have hired 3 inexperienced HCs in a row. 2 Def and 1 Off. I think wanting a HC and something new is a good idea.

I would like to see someone hired with HC experience for the exact reasons you point out, but I am not against Coyle if he hires an OC. I will be pissed if he hires a DC.

I just cannot wait for this to be announced so we can focus on recruiting for the next few months. Going to be a renewed sense of excitement around here, I hope.

 

[RF2044]

I agree with all of that. But Oregon has done pretty well with promoting its coordinators. There are some other examples of guys who got power 5 gigs for their first HC job who have done well - Stoops, Gundy, Strong, Swinney, Fisher, Freeze, Mullen, Richt, Franklin, Chryst, Fitzgerald (he and his NW program are often mentioned as a benchmark for SU), Shaw, Leach, RichRod (if you dont count a D2 program). So it's not unprecedented. And, the MAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA guys flame out just as often as they are successful.

Bottom line, if Coyle think Frost has all the chops, there is no reason not to make the hire. Higher risk or not. I do worry about his ability to recruit the East coast and pull together an East coast oriented staff. Almost all of the above-coaches were promotions within or were already working in the respective region.

Oregon HAS done pretty well, but let's also keep in mind that the footprint was already in place. Those guys were stepping into a well-oiled machine that was already established. They didn't have to implement something new, turn around a losing program, etc.

That's what I meant above about there being circumstantial times in the state of a program where hiring a coordinator is less of a risk, or a worthwhile risk.

 

[Finwad32]

I understand everyone's concerns, but, if a guy can lead, he can lead. All HC's worked their way there. I'm sure if we go the route of Coordinator, Mr. Coyle will be confident in his leadership abilities.

 

[rocklloyd]

I want to see a proven recruiter. Filling the pipeline with talent especially defensive backfield is most important

 

[TheCusian]

I want an offensive guy as well but I believe we should hire a current HC. Coyle seems like he knows what he is doing but I need to see it believe it. Frost is a gamble. I don't think we should be gambling this hire.

Every hire Syracuse makes will be a gamble. The ones that are not include names like Meyer, oceans of booster money, and more money flowing in that we'll ever have.

That's why you hear MAC HC, P5 retreads, and coordinators.

 

[TheCusian]

I will also say that Frost has been linked to HC jobs at Maryland and Iowa St - so it's not like we are the only P5 who thinks he might be ready to jump to P5 HC.

 

[Alsacs]

Every hire Syracuse makes will be a gamble. The ones that are not include names like Meyer, oceans of booster money, and more money flowing in that we'll ever have.

That's why you hear MAC HC, P5 retreads, and coordinators.

C'mon man. If you get my point does this really need to be said unless you and I want to waste energy. I don't want to waste energy.

Who has more of a resume as a HC a prior HC or a career assistant?

I want a prior HC because I want to know they have done it before. Of course any hire is a gamble but c'mon man. Really I am not a ND fan you don't need troll me.

 

[Alsacs]

I will also say that Frost has been linked to HC jobs at Maryland and Iowa St - so it's not like we are the only P5 who thinks he might be ready to jump to P5 HC.

Maryland isn't hiring Frost. Iowa State can go ahead. Please let them hire him.

Frost hiring is not why I would have fired SS. Syracuse should learn from history and hire a MAC/FBS/American coach and give that a try. Frost wowed Coyle so much he hired Harsin.

 

[TheCusian]

C'mon man. If you get my point does this really need to be said unless you and I want to waste energy. I don't want to waste energy. Who has more of a resume as a HC a prior HC or a career assistant? I want a prior HC because I want to know they have done it before. Of course any hire is a gamble but c'mon man. Really I am not a ND fan you don't need troll me.

I'm not trolling you. Clawson was a nice safe former HC hire for Wake Forest and they have flamed out. It's literally always a gamble. Money can mitigate that and that's why blue bloods miss less (though they do too - Brady Hoke).

I think we have to trust Coyle on this.

 

[TheCusian]

Maryland isn't hiring Frost. Iowa State can go ahead. Please let them hire him. Frost hiring is not why I would have fired SS. Syracuse should learn from history and hire a MAC/FBS/American coach and give that a try. Frost wowed Coyle so much he hired Harsin.

Now you're trolling me.

I'm not sure Coyle had much choice as Harsin was a known quantity by that entire program, school, and community as a former player and coordinator.

 

[qdawgg]

My point wasn't that I didn't like frost as a candidate just FYI. I won't be unhappy if we hire him. But there is definitely a little more risk hiring a coordinator over a HC like Baldwin, just as an example. A HC has already made HC specific mistakes and has learned from them.

I'll also point out that I think there are potential issues with guys that are HC's as well. So as TheCusian said, there are risks any direction we go.

I'm ok with whatever Coyle decides because I'm hoping he will make the right choice. The only concern I have is we hire some NFL guy, since he did interview NFL guys for the Boise job

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Now you're trolling me.

I'm not sure Coyle had much choice as Harsin was a known quantity by that entire program, school, and community as a former player and coordinator.

Harsin was also born and raised in Boise. Guy could become their Boeheim if he can keep winning.

 

[orangenirvana]

Frost makes me nervous but maybe he has a well-developed plan that he presented to Coyle last year which blew him away but Harsin was already the hand-picked guy by that point.

I still prefer Babers and if we must go with a coordinator I would still choose Lincoln Riley because he's at least been on the east coast and has been successful in more places than a national power. But if Frost is Coyle's guy then we have to trust him.

 

[Nick44]

I'm not trolling you. Clawson was a nice safe former HC hire for Wake Forest and they have flamed out. It's literally always a gamble. Money can mitigate that and that's why blue bloods miss less (though they do too - Brady Hoke).

I think we have to trust Coyle on this.

Agreed. And to 2nd that point, for those who want offensive wizards like Babers, it's not like Holgerson has lit the world on fire at WVA. Point being that it is a crapshoot.

As a fan, you can only hope that your AD does his search, compiles a top 5-10 list and is able to get the #1 on his list. If he does, support the hire.

 

[orangenirvana]

Agreed. And to 2nd that point, for those who want offensive wizards like Babers, it's not like Holgerson has lit the world on fire at WVA. Point being that it is a crapshoot.

As a fan, you can only hope that your AD does his search, compiles a top 5-10 list and is able to get the #1 on his list. If he does, support the hire.

I would take Holgorsen in a second.

 

[RMH44]

I would take Holgorsen in a second.

Thank God you're not the AD. Besides, DH makes over 3 million a year at WVU.

 

[CuseLegacy]

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=News-Notes--Quotes--Nov-27

- UCF became the first winless FBS team since Miami (OH) in 2013, and the 13th-ever 0-12 team. Only two games were decided by fewer than 14 points — one-point losses to FIU and Furman. It’s been a remarkable turn since winning the Fiesta Bowl two years ago.

But as for what’s next, ’s UCF site reports the school is focused on four candidates: Bowling Green head coach Dino Babers, North Carolina defensive coordinator Gene Chizik and Florida defensive coordinators Geoff Collins and Randy Shannon, adding that interviews are expected to happen Saturday and Sunday.

 

[orangenirvana]

Thank God you're not the AD. Besides, DH makes over 3 million a year at WVU.

Yeah, Top 20 offenses and bowl games suck.

 

[RMH44]

Yeah, Top 20 offenses and bowl games suck.

It's not his offense where I have concerns. I think he was a great OC and would take his offense in a heartbeat.

If you're going spend 3 million dollars on new HC, I'm sure you can find someone who is far more organized and successful than DH.

 

[Rocco]

Frost makes me nervous but maybe he has a well-developed plan that he presented to Coyle last year which blew him away but Harsin was already the hand-picked guy by that point.

I still prefer Babers and if we must go with a coordinator I would still choose Lincoln Riley because he's at least been on the east coast and has been successful in more places than a national power. But if Frost is Coyle's guy then we have to trust him.

If Frost falls through, I would love to see Lincoln Riley here. Have I mentioned that I want an offense-first type of guy as the next hire?

 

[TheCusian]

My point wasn't that I didn't like frost as a candidate just FYI. I won't be unhappy if we hire him. But there is definitely a little more risk hiring a coordinator over a HC like Baldwin, just as an example. A HC has already made HC specific mistakes and has learned from them. I'll also point out that I think there are potential issues with guys that are HC's as well. So as TheCusian said, there are risks any direction we go. I'm ok with whatever Coyle decides because I'm hoping he will make the right choice. The only concern I have is we hire some NFL guy, since he did interview NFL guys for the Boise job

Yep. That's where I am.

This conversation is a bit like arguing recruiting classes. It can literally always be better. We should never be "happy" with a class. Whatever coach we get is going to have some question marks. Can't let perfect be the enemy of good.

 

[qdawgg]

Frost makes me nervous but maybe he has a well-developed plan that he presented to Coyle last year which blew him away but Harsin was already the hand-picked guy by that point.

I still prefer Babers and if we must go with a coordinator I would still choose Lincoln Riley because he's at least been on the east coast and has been successful in more places than a national power. But if Frost is Coyle's guy then we have to trust him.

That goes with what I wrote yesterday, I think if frost is the guy we know pretty quick because he's interviewed him before. Frost also knows what school Coyle represents so he's either interested or he's not. Same goes for Coyle, he interviewed him already, there's no point in talking with him again unless he's the main target. The more time that passes the more likely it is frost isn't the guy IMO

 

[orangenirvana]

It's not his offense where I have concerns. I think he was a great OC and would take his offense in a heartbeat.

If you're going spend 3 million dollars on new HC, I'm sure you can find someone who is far more organized and successful than DH.

Is West Virginia supposed to be dominating the Big 12? I've never seen a more awkward conference fit. Can't be easy to recruit there. Yet they continue to win more games than they lose under DH.

 

[RMH44]

Is West Virginia supposed to be dominating the Big 12? I've never seen a more awkward conference fit. Can't be easy to recruit there. Yet they continue to win more games than they lose under DH.

Not sure but great point.

It could be argued that one of the reasons WVU always has decent offenses is the complete lack of defense in the Big 12. Maybe DH should give soon to be former HCSS a call to gauge interest as a DC.

 

[Orangejet]

Here are my choices and I would be happy with either:
1) Frost HC Orgeron AHC/DC
2) Orgeron HC Warner/OC