The All Inclusive QB Room Discussion

[RF2044]

Both can be true. He was hurt and his throwing mechanics/ accuracy sucked even pre injury.

But both situations can be improved.

Sure. But I never disputed point #2.

I was calling out the statement that Shrader wasn't hurt, and that it was only an excuse for why his passing dipped over the last three games. Just to clarify.

 

[tep624]

Shraders mechanics were a problem before he got lit up. He’s not nearly as good as he needs to be in the primary skill for a qb.

there is nothing wrong in acknowledging that fact, and it is not an attack on the player. It’s a weakness that needs to be addressed

Tebow could get away with it because he had crazy talent around him at Florida, Josh Allen got away with it at Wyoming, because of the competition he played against.

Shrader needs to follow the Josh Allen path and fix his swing

There's a difference between acknowledging a player has an obvious weakness that needs to be improved upon and cavalier statements that we need a new QB. This new staff should be given the opportunity to work with Shrader and if it doesn't work out and they need to go in a different direction so be it. They are being smart in setting up contingencies in the event it doesn't work out with Shrader.

 

[tep624]

yep, options are weighed. The starter will always be under scrutiny as well. Many wanted Dungey replaced with Devito after the UNC game a few years ago. Just what fans do. Then after the ND game it was clear who the starter was

Coaches get paid to try and win games last time I checked. Watching GS try and get warmed up before the BC game was actually painful to watch. He was injured and I am not saying we would have won any of the last few games but you could see it when he came out for warm ups

I still haven't forgotten the replace Dungey with Devito stuff. That was classic.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

When players aren’t replaced due to bad performance some fans will think there is someone better that the coaches are over looking. The coaches knew that a gimpy Shrader was better than the alternative. Some people just don’t want to accept that.

In fairness though, that is a tough reality to accept.

 

[money3189]

I would think some of this stems from the fact that Clayton and s e xy Rexy and even Morgan seemed to read defenses better and spread the ball around more behind the same dumpsters.

I know that does not paint the whole picture and that the offense was probably changed to put those guys in a better position to succeed, but I know when I think back to 2019 I picture Clayton making much better reads and just not having the arm talent to make some of the plays.

Perception is not always reality though, especially once time has passed and players have moved on.

That and knowing 2019 had a better group of Wr's. The O line allowed just 3 more sacks than this years group. All the QB's were affected by poor pass blocking.

 

[money3189]

In fairness though, that is a tough reality to accept.

I get it.

 

[Domedog84]

That and knowing 2019 had a better group of Wr's. The O line allowed just 3 more sacks than this years group. All the QB's were affected by poor pass blocking.

Great point. Didn't think of how much it meant to have true number 1 and 2 receivers that year.

 

[baggerbob]

I still haven't forgotten the replace Dungey with Devito stuff. That was classic.

Then the book on Tommy was exposed when he did replace Eric against Notre Dame. The rest is history, there is no way we should have been blown out, after playing Clemson to the end with a good QB.
Tommy should have at least been able to do something in that game, he didn't, and the book on him was shown.

 

[Domedog84]

Then the book on Tommy was exposed when he did replace Eric against Notre Dame. The rest is history, there is no way we should have been blown out, after playing Clemson to the end with a good QB.
Tommy should have at least been able to do something in that game, he didn't, and the book on him was shown.

I am no Tommy defender but he threw a dime to Nykiem in the end zone that he couldn't come up with and Harris puked up a pass for an int too. But your larger point certainly remains, and I can admit I wanted Tommy to play after how bad Eric looked against UNC. Glad I am not the coach.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Then the book on Tommy was exposed when he did replace Eric against Notre Dame. The rest is history, there is no way we should have been blown out, after playing Clemson to the end with a good QB.
Tommy should have at least been able to do something in that game, he didn't, and the book on him was shown.

Yeah, I was at that game, and we were just the next team in the path of a Notre Dame squad that was on a different level. Dungey could have been healthy, they were still going to stomp us. It was pretty clear from kickoff that they were playing with some edge we just couldn't match that edge and didn't have the talent to match. How we played against Clemson was irrelevant.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Question - what color is the paint on the walls of the QB room?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Question - what color is the paint on the walls of the QB room?

Doubt there's any paint left.

Over the years it's all been blistered off.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah, I was at that game, and we were just the next team in the path of a Notre Dame squad that was on a different level. Dungey could have been healthy, they were still going to stomp us. It was pretty clear from kickoff that they were playing with some edge we just couldn't match that edge and didn't have the talent to match. How we played against Clemson was irrelevant.

Yep. Eric gave us more of a chance, but looked pretty ineffective in his limited time

 

[MikeSU02]

First, I hope GS holds onto the starting position and I expect him to. I also expect him to be a better thrower between having more experience here, getting healthy and the new coaches.

I think we needed to have another body in the QB room. I trust the coaches that DV can, at the least, be a serviceable backup. And, as others have noted, with how much the QB is involved in running, we'll likely need that backup to play.

Here is my thing, in the larger sense, we need every positional group to be better, even the one with Sean Tucker in it. I am cautiously optimistic for next year and potentially getting to six wins. I think we can do it. But, in reality, every position group needs more talent. Every single one of them.

This will not and should not be the last time a move like this is made. And the QB position is arguably the most important position in all of team sports.

To me, the most important aspect is that Dino and company are honest with each recruit and their families and give each player a fair shot. Everything else is part of competition at a D1 level.

 

[All4SU]

Morgan was #2, so you can’t just rule him out.

 

[LAOrange]

Sure. But I never disputed point #2.

I was calling out the statement that Shrader wasn't hurt, and that it was only an excuse for why his passing dipped over the last three games. Just to clarify.

It's historically provable that Beck can improve a QBs mechanics. Shrader's a big, strong guy. He should be able to throw the ball accurately more than 30 yds - just by tweaking his form and working on his muscle memory. If the skills sets are relatively equal (which I believe will be true), the competition will be more about decision making. Who can make the fastest read; who can adjust in-game to developing circumstances and changing defenses.
The one thing we cannot abide is receivers who don't run their routes, don't work with the QB or (especially) drop passes.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Dungey was a warrior...loved the leadership.
But his arm?? er uh no.

We were 10-3 with ED, beat Clemson... That works

 

[PhatOrange]

Dungey was a warrior...loved the leadership.
But his arm?? er uh no.

His arm was fine. He was 61% w/2800 yards and 18 TDs. If that's only 'meh' I'll take it. That would've easily put us into a bowl game this year.

His WR's were not exactly murderers row either (Riley, Custis, Nykiem, Harris), but OCoordinating factors in here for sure.

 

[newmexicuse]

I love what shrader brings to the table. Great runner and a warrior. That being said, we need a better pass game. Imho, half of that is on gs and half on needing better receivers. I am going to give gs the benefit of the doubt that he will improve somewhat....hopefully enough, if not there may be opportunities for others. Offense was way too one dimensional last season, especially when our o line could not control the line of scrimmage. That needs to change.

 

[BillSU]

Yup exactly, I think we squeeze out one more win if Shrader isn’t hurt.

But going to Louisville game and NC State game it was certainly rough watching Shrader get up after he got knocked down. You could see him wincing in pain.

Which means a banged up GS was seen as the better option of Morgan, Lamson.

Which is also why this Villari pick up is huge. Even if he doesn’t compete for #1 he’s a huge upgrade as a backup if we need him.

Really really excited about what’s going on with this team recently. It’s got me excited for the 2022 season

I wrote the lead post in this thread with no pre- conclusion ideas about Villari just what his private coach said. There was, if you read it totally, more than the bolded BIG ARM. Go back and read it.
It was about his mechanics, legs, how the ball is released from his hand, the mental part of the game and how he loves every aspect.
It was not about someone to replace Shrader, it was about someone who is good coming in to compete with him which is a good thing for both of them under new coaches.
Shrader will have the benefit of working with Anae and Beck before Villari and that's great,he needs tutoring, a lot of it.
I'm just glad I found the article to give us a sense of who he is.
Tommy is gone and all I remember is him standing in the pocket getting blasted by linebackers because of a wanting OLine and he was never creative or fast enough to run and throw and if he ever did the pass would be incomplete.
So, here's hoping Shrader and Villari have a great year in '22 and we do as well, watching SU WIN ball games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t like it.

Sure the QB room looks full now. But now we have three RS-Fr QB’s in that room.

If you’re Morgan or Lamson and the new OC and QB coaches, whom you haven’t even met yet, decide to bring another QB with the same amount of eligibility you have. How would you feel?

The new coaches haven’t seen any of the three RS-Fr workout in person. They’ve probably seen practice film for all three guys and decided there’s a need for a third RS-Fr QB?

This could backfire terribly.

It’s one thing to get recruited over with a younger player (more eligibility), but bringing in a guy with similar eligibility doesn’t send a good message to the guys who are already here.

We thought we were short handed with only three scholarship QB’s, but by the end of spring (or sooner) we could only have two scholarship QB’s on the roster.

That's what spring practice is for. Your future is on the line. Take the opportunity. These are new coaches. Seize the opportunity to impress them.

 

[orangepassion]

With all the debate of Shrader vs Villari, it'll be funny if Lamson beats them both out

 

[LAOrange]

I wrote the lead post in this thread with no pre- conclusion ideas about Villari just what his private coach said. There was, if you read it totally, more than the bolded BIG ARM. Go back and read it.
It was about his mechanics, legs, how the ball is released from his hand, the mental part of the game and how he loves every aspect.
It was not about someone to replace Shrader, it was about someone who is good coming in to compete with him which is a good thing for both of them under new coaches.
Shrader will have the benefit of working with Anae and Beck before Villari and that's great,he needs tutoring, a lot of it.
I'm just glad I found the article to give us a sense of who he is.
Tommy is gone and all I remember is him standing in the pocket getting blasted by linebackers because of a wanting OLine and he was never creative or fast enough to run and throw and if he ever did the pass would be incomplete.
So, here's hoping Shrader and Villari have a great year in '22 and we do as well, watching SU WIN ball games.

A problem with Tommy was his head. How many times did he roll out just to immediately throw it out of bounds? After which, when a replay was shown, you could see open receivers. I don't think he was capable of checking his primary routes quickly. He seemed to panic. However, in his defense (or not - if you get the pun) the line was so bad he couldn't check all the way down.

 

[Chip]

With all the debate of Shrader vs Villari, it'll be funny if Lamson beats them both out

Fan Duel needs to put a futures bet out there for that. I'd drop $20 or so, just to make it interesting.

 

[BillSU]

To be fair, that's his personal coach, who might be a bit biased when he makes it sound like Pat Mahomes would be holding his jockstrap.

That's not what the article was about and his personal coach isn't a holier than thou person. You'd have to read about the coaches experience with his clients.

Admittedly, the article said nothing about checkdowns or surveying what defense he's looking at .

It was information about what Villari has coming in not about he's the greatest thing since Tom Brady.

And he, as do all very good quarterbacks, will have with coaching and practice learn to look off his primary receiver to throw off a safety or corner back creeping up to look at his eyes. I have no idea if he worked on that at Michigan.

Hell I'd like to see Shrader stay at the #1 with the coaching he'll get from Beck. Let's see how it goes. It will be good that GS has someone is there a step behind.

Shrader is very competitive. Right now I don't see him losing his position. Hopefully they'll coach him up to where he can throw great balls every time and get all his throwing mechanics corrected. Beck is a heck of a coach so GS has one of the best mentors standing right beside him.

It will be great if we can depend on both of them to be excellent leaders, and do all that is necessary of a great QB in case of injury to one.

And, with Beck stepping in he might just have the best in Lamson who I have never seen? It's going to be an interesting spring practice to determine not only who may be the best QB but all positions in need.