The All Inclusive QB Room Discussion

[sutomcat]

Him laying on the ground for about 2 minutes after getting drilled in the midsection did push speculation. (Va Tech)

Or Garrett wearing a boot after several late season games. Or all the times he was sent to the injury tent to get treated after he was injured during drives. Or him admitting he was going to need days of treatment to help recover from the damage done to his body.

 

[PhatOrange]

He got injured against Virginia tech. Facts.

You claiming that it's a narrative, as confirmatory bias to support your own rationalized view is another narrative. Facts.

That I look forward to Garrett Schroeder making you eat your words next year is just an opinion, admittedly. But I'll enjoy watching it happen. Fact.

I retract the injury narrative comment. I was wrong. I don’t retract my voicing that he’s not a very good passer. He can improve and I hope he does. I hope Beck fixes his mechanics. I’d like to see the team win again and that’s the only way it’s gonna happen. He’s an amazing runner and has a competitive fire and toughness like no other.

The line in the sand stuff is sort of amusing though no? You hate my position on this but I mean Leach moved the kid to WR.

I’m curious do you think Symir Torrence can become a better shooter? Cause he gets constantly railed on for that among other things.

 

[BillSU]

Sounds like Garrett has his work cut out for him especially in mechanics and accuracy. How refreshing. If this has already been posted apologies.

Dan Villari

The 6-foot-4, 235-pound Villari was a three-star prospect out of Plainedge (New York) High School, according to 247Sports. The quarterback was the 12th-highest recruit in New York and was a first-team All-State selection. He showcased a dual-threat ability in high school, throwing for 1,306 yards and 13 touchdowns as a senior, while adding 1,522 yards and 25 rushing touchdowns.

The following is written by James Brady elite QB coach Massapequa, N.Y.

(High School Varsity Football Offensive Coordinator & Quarterbacks Coach.
Has trained over 500 Quarterbacks (Grade School thru High School) since 2008.
NUC Sports & National Passing Academy Instructor & Evaluator from 2009 to Present.)

James Brady: "Biggest strength would be his size and athleticism. He's every bit of 6-4, 235 and he can run with the best of 'em.

Now it's like he throws the ball before the receiver has even made his break and he's throwing it behind a linebacker's head in a tight window. That's definitely where he's made the most progress and I'd say he's still working to get even better. Understanding the game, processing information and having the game slow down a little bit so he's always one step ahead."

ARM TALENT

Brady: "He can throw with anybody. I think what sets him apart is the ability to get out and create with his legs. But, he has as big of an arm, in terms of deep ball and velocity, and then accuracy and consistency, he can throw with anybody, in my opinion, in the country.The way he's throwing the ball now, to be quite frank, I've been doing this for 14 years, I haven't seen many people throw like he does in person. As good as he is with his legs, he is just as good if not better throwing the ball around. He's the total package. I have no other way to say it. He's not going to go somewhere and just because he can run, they'll put him in. No. If he stays in the pocket all game long, he'll be just as good. And he can get out and create."

He is extremely coachable. He understands that he can always get a little better. If you can share something with him that can help, he's going to do everything he can to get better at it. He's a sponge, student of the game, and he loves every piece of it. I think that's where he's made the most progress is in the mental side of it. So I think he'll have a lot of fun getting to learn a whole new system, and putting time in with that."

 

[orangepassion]

To be fair, that's his personal coach, who might be a bit biased when he makes it sound like Pat Mahomes would be holding his jockstrap.

Sounds like Garrett has his work cut out for him especially in mechanics and accuracy. How refreshing. If this has already been posted apologies.

Dan Villari

The 6-foot-4, 235-pound Villari was a three-star prospect out of Plainedge (New York) High School, according to 247Sports. The quarterback was the 12th-highest recruit in New York and was a first-team All-State selection. He showcased a dual-threat ability in high school, throwing for 1,306 yards and 13 touchdowns as a senior, while adding 1,522 yards and 25 rushing touchdowns.

The following is written by James Brady elite QB coach Massapequa, N.Y.

(High School Varsity Football Offensive Coordinator & Quarterbacks Coach.
Has trained over 500 Quarterbacks (Grade School thru High School) since 2008.
NUC Sports & National Passing Academy Instructor & Evaluator from 2009 to Present.)

James Brady: "Biggest strength would be his size and athleticism. He's every bit of 6-4, 235 and he can run with the best of 'em.

Now it's like he throws the ball before the receiver has even made his break and he's throwing it behind a linebacker's head in a tight window. That's definitely where he's made the most progress and I'd say he's still working to get even better. Understanding the game, processing information and having the game slow down a little bit so he's always one step ahead."

ARM TALENT

Brady: "He can throw with anybody. I think what sets him apart is the ability to get out and create with his legs. But, he has as big of an arm, in terms of deep ball and velocity, and then accuracy and consistency, he can throw with anybody, in my opinion, in the country.The way he's throwing the ball now, to be quite frank, I've been doing this for 14 years, I haven't seen many people throw like he does in person. As good as he is with his legs, he is just as good if not better throwing the ball around. He's the total package. I have no other way to say it. He's not going to go somewhere and just because he can run, they'll put him in. No. If he stays in the pocket all game long, he'll be just as good. And he can get out and create."

He is extremely coachable. He understands that he can always get a little better. If you can share something with him that can help, he's going to do everything he can to get better at it. He's a sponge, student of the game, and he loves every piece of it. I think that's where he's made the most progress is in the mental side of it. So I think he'll have a lot of fun getting to learn a whole new system, and putting time in with that."

 

[Bulldog04]

Anytime I hear “big arm” THATS all I ever heard with devito and that got us no where. Would love a game manager. Smart decision maker and someone who can lead a team. Please let’s just start there

 

[AngryOtto]

Valleri shows an accurate arm, but on almost every throw he immediately locks on to his primary target. As young college QBs develop, they learn to see the entire field and pick out an open secondary or tertiary receiver. The really good NFL QBs (Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes) take this a step futher with the unique ability to fool the coverage by "looking off" the intended receiver, or even throwing a "no-look" pass on occasion.
To take his game to the next level. it's something Vallari needs to work on IMO.

This is based on his high school tape. Not sure if he worked on that at Michigan or not. We will not know until either spring game or if he gets time next season.

 

[All4SU]

Everything I said is true. Things are so bad he had to play but they also ran him 69 times in the last 4 games.

I was being serious with the thank you, because the only person on the board I trust with info, let me know. nice juvenile name calling bravo.

Until the final game, even his running was less effective after the VT game. That would also given credence to his injury.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Until the final game, even his running was less effective after the VT game. That would also given credence to his injury.

100%. The kid was hurt. I mean the hit he took the last play of the VT game would have killed a few people. Even with the win versus BC he was really slow and gimpy.

I think if we had a viable option at back up we would have seen him play, just my opinion. That is why I like this kid, #3 at Michigan is good enough for #2 at Syracuse at a minimum.

And again, I would be shocked if Shrader does not start game 1

 

[money3189]

100%. The kid was hurt. I mean the hit he took the last play of the VT game would have killed a few people. Even with the win versus BC he was really slow and gimpy.

I think if we had a viable option at back up we would have seen him play, just my opinion. That is why I like this kid, #3 at Michigan is good enough for #2 at Syracuse at a minimum.

And again, I would be shocked if Shrader does not start game 1

When players aren’t replaced due to bad performance some fans will think there is someone better that the coaches are over looking. The coaches knew that a gimpy Shrader was better than the alternative. Some people just don’t want to accept that.

 

[JRHEETER]

When players aren’t replaced due to bad performance some fans will think there is someone better that the coaches are over looking. The coaches knew that a gimpy Shrader is better than the alternative. Some people just don’t want to accept that.

100%

Mind blowing really.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When players aren’t replaced due to bad performance some fans will think there is someone better that the coaches are over looking. The coaches knew that a gimpy Shrader is better than the alternative. Some people just don’t want to accept that.

yep, options are weighed. The starter will always be under scrutiny as well. Many wanted Dungey replaced with Devito after the UNC game a few years ago. Just what fans do. Then after the ND game it was clear who the starter was

Coaches get paid to try and win games last time I checked. Watching GS try and get warmed up before the BC game was actually painful to watch. He was injured and I am not saying we would have won any of the last few games but you could see it when he came out for warm ups

 

[Goin' Deep]

Looks like Villari throws better than Shrader--but Shrader may be the better runner.
Who reads defenses better?
Who goes through progressions better/quicker.
Who picks up the Anae/Beck system quicker?
Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[sutomcat]

yep, options are weighed. The starter will always be under scrutiny as well. Many wanted Dungey replaced with Devito after the UNC game a few years ago. Just what fans do. Then after the ND game it was clear who the starter was

Coaches get paid to try and win games last time I checked. Watching GS try and get warmed up before the BC game was actually painful to watch. He was injured and I am not saying we would have won any of the last few games but you could see it when he came out for warm ups

I understand why coaches keep information about the health of their players tightly guarded but it stinks when fans of the team don't understand what is really going on, see players struggling and make bad assumptions based on the lack of information out there.

In the BC game, yes, no question, Garrett was really banged up. The NC State game as well. If you went to the game in person and saw him struggling, you would know he was really hurting.

But the BC game is an interesting game to bring up. Before the game started, there was rumors Jerk, who had been hurt most of the season, might return to action against Syracuse. He had started practicing with the team the week of the Syracuse game.

He didn't. Garrett did. Pretty sure that was the reason we won. People get down on Garrett for his performance in that game, and a couple of others late, when in my mind, he was being a great team player, doing what was best for the team, even if he had deal with a lot of pain to get it done. Garrett being Garrett, he was not interested in going public with what he was going through, probably because he didn't want future opponents to know he was hurt, get specifics on it and game plan to take advantage of it.

Anyway, glad this info is coming to light. I don't think Garrett is perfect. He can and will get a lot better. But he wasn't close to 100% late in the season and that was a big factor in how ineffective the offense was. Almost as much of a factor as the deteriorating performance of the OL as injuries forced more and more backups to have to play.

 

[Cuse12]

Looks like Villari throws better than Shrader--but Shrader may be the better runner.
Who reads defenses better?
Who goes through progressions better/quicker.
Who picks up the Anae/Beck system quicker?
Winner winner chicken dinner.

Bingo. As we saw with Devito a strong arm means nothing if you can’t read defenses and have the ability to assume openings on the field and not wait for the openings to throw

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Anytime I hear “big arm” THATS all I ever heard with devito and that got us no where. Would love a game manager. Smart decision maker and someone who can lead a team. Please let’s just start there

Now, granted, the line play was awful and that helped no one. But Devito handled stress as well as my mother-in-law. Hard not to find an improvement there.

 

[GoSU96]

Shraders mechanics were a problem before he got lit up. He’s not nearly as good as he needs to be in the primary skill for a qb.

there is nothing wrong in acknowledging that fact, and it is not an attack on the player. It’s a weakness that needs to be addressed

Tebow could get away with it because he had crazy talent around him at Florida, Josh Allen got away with it at Wyoming, because of the competition he played against.

Shrader needs to follow the Josh Allen path and fix his swing

 

[721Comstock]

Shraders mechanics were a problem before he got lit up. He’s not nearly as good as he needs to be in the primary skill for a qb.

there is nothing wrong in acknowledging that fact, and it is not an attack on the player. It’s a weakness that needs to be addressed

Tebow could get away with because he had crazy talent around him at Florida, Josh Allen got away with it at Wyoming, because of the competition he played against.

Shrader needs to follow the Josh Allen path and fix his swing

Truth.

Also - Anae has shown he’s more than willing to put 2 QB’s on the field together, and do some creative stuff.

So, no matter who emerges a QB1 on gameday in Sept, the other guy won’t have reason to sulk, because he’s gonna see the field some too.

And frankly, this is kinda brilliant, since it keeps both guys on their toes, and QB2 isn’t totally rusty if called upon if QB1 goes down for any reason.

 

[JRHEETER]

I understand why coaches keep information about the health of their players tightly guarded but it stinks when fans of the team don't understand what is really going on, see players struggling and make bad assumptions based on the lack of information out there.

In the BC game, yes, no question, Garrett was really banged up. The NC State game as well. If you went to the game in person and saw him struggling, you would know he was really hurting.

But the BC game is an interesting game to bring up. Before the game started, there was rumors Jerk, who had been hurt most of the season, might return to action against Syracuse. He had started practicing with the team the week of the Syracuse game.

He didn't. Garrett did. Pretty sure that was the reason we won. People get down on Garrett for his performance in that game, and a couple of others late, when in my mind, he was being a great team player, doing what was best for the team, even if he had deal with a lot of pain to get it done. Garrett being Garrett, he was not interested in going public with what he was going through, probably because he didn't want future opponents to know he was hurt, get specifics on it and game plan to take advantage of it.

Anyway, glad this info is coming to light. I don't think Garrett is perfect. He can and will get a lot better. But he wasn't close to 100% late in the season and that was a big factor in how ineffective the offense was. Almost as much of a factor as the deteriorating performance of the OL as injuries forced more and more backups to have to play.

Yup exactly, I think we squeeze out one more win if Shrader isn’t hurt.

But going to Louisville game and NC State game it was certainly rough watching Shrader get up after he got knocked down. You could see him wincing in pain.

Which means a banged up GS was seen as the better option of Morgan, Lamson.

Which is also why this Villari pick up is huge. Even if he doesn’t compete for #1 he’s a huge upgrade as a backup if we need him.

Really really excited about what’s going on with this team recently. It’s got me excited for the 2022 season

 

[RF2044]

I retract the injury narrative comment. I was wrong. I don’t retract my voicing that he’s not a very good passer. He can improve and I hope he does. I hope Beck fixes his mechanics. I’d like to see the team win again and that’s the only way it’s gonna happen. He’s an amazing runner and has a competitive fire and toughness like no other.

The line in the sand stuff is sort of amusing though no? You hate my position on this but I mean Leach moved the kid to WR.

I’m curious do you think Symir Torrence can become a better shooter? Cause he gets constantly railed on for that among other things.

PhattyO, sorry about the pointed exchange last night.

I don't think that it's the "only" way -- because I don't think that Shrader is ever going to morph into a great passer. Can he be better / can he improve? Sure. But improvement could also be attained through some combination of better offensive coaching from Anae / Beck, better playcalling, the maturation of the young WR corps, the WRs actually running set routes on plays instead of having an open pattern tree that they wing, finding a solid fifth starter on the OL to compliment the other four solid players, etc. would all go a long ways toward positioning the team to get back to a bowl.

And improvement from Shrader would help, too. Luckily, we have an OC and QB coach with an outstanding track record both as teachers, and for maximizing the productivity that they squeeze out of different types of QBs with different skills, so it will be interesting to see what they do with Shrader.

I don't know whether Symir can improve his shooting. His mechanics are really bad, and it is difficult to alter muscle memory. Scoop did it, but that was with a year off as a redshirt to work on it.

 

[Chip]

he looks the best versus weak HS competition. time will tell. I still think Shrader starts

If I had to place a bet, I would agree.

One thing that Villari has going for him that most 4 year eligibility QBs will not is that he spent 2 seasons practicing with Michigan. So adjusting to the speed or complexity of things won't be a like a kid coming from HS (or even Lamson who didn't have a senior year in HS). Everyone gets a fresh start with the new OC/QB coach.

If he doesn't win the job, I think he'll be a more than capable backup.

 

[RF2044]

If I had to place a bet, I would agree.

One thing that Villari has going for him that most 4 year eligibility QBs will not is that he spent 2 seasons practicing with Michigan. So adjusting to the speed or complexity of things won't be a like a kid coming from HS (or even Lamson who didn't have a senior year in HS). Everyone gets a fresh start with the new OC/QB coach.

If he doesn't win the job, I think he'll be a more than capable backup.

Agreed. You never know until the pass rush gets live how they'll perform. Look no farther than Tommy DeVito, who had million dollar arm talent, but a 10-cent feel for the game when he wasn't practicing in shorts.

But Villari on paper should have already made the transition, so the "speed" of the college game shouldn't be an issue. What his skill set is -- TBD. But we've got the right offensive staff to cultivate his development.

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed. You never know until the pass rush gets live how they'll perform. Look no farther than Tommy DeVito, who had million dollar arm talent, but a 10-cent feel for the game when he wasn't practicing in shorts.

But Villari on paper should have already made the transition, so the "speed" of the college game shouldn't be an issue. What his skill set is -- TBD. But we've got the right offensive staff to cultivate his development.

I still think it’s weird how much we lay at TD’s feet. The OL in 2019 and 2020 was an absolute dumpster. And TD’s 2019 was a statistically better year throwing vs GS with the same amount of W’s.

I like everything we’ve done to put GS and the rest of the QB room into a spot to be successful. New OL last year, better recruiting both transfer and HS on the line, new OC and QB coach this year. Think about the duds we saddled Tommy with, lol.

Big picture, I’m super amped to see where we’re going. But the story on TD isn’t as simple as people like to make it, IMO.

 

[Domedog84]

I still think it’s weird how much we lay at TD’s feet. The OL in 2019 and 2020 was an absolute dumpster. And TD’s 2019 was a statistically better year throwing vs GS with the same amount of W’s.

I like everything we’ve done to put GS and the rest of the QB room into a spot to be successful. New OL last year, better recruiting both transfer and HS on the line, new OC and QB coach this year. Think about the duds we saddled Tommy with, lol.

Big picture, I’m super amped to see where we’re going. But the story on TD isn’t as simple as people like to make it, IMO.

I would think some of this stems from the fact that Clayton and Sexy Rexy and even Morgan seemed to read defenses better and spread the ball around more behind the same dumpsters.

I know that does not paint the whole picture and that the offense was probably changed to put those guys in a better position to succeed, but I know when I think back to 2019 I picture Clayton making much better reads and just not having the arm talent to make some of the plays.

Perception is not always reality though, especially once time has passed and players have moved on.

 

[Jake]

Might want to walk it back, instead of doubling down on your stupidity.

Or at the very least, get your facts straight.

Both can be true. He was hurt and his throwing mechanics/ accuracy sucked even pre injury.

But both situations can be improved.

 

[Cuseregular]

I understand why coaches keep information about the health of their players tightly guarded but it stinks when fans of the team don't understand what is really going on, see players struggling and make bad assumptions based on the lack of information out there.

In the BC game, yes, no question, Garrett was really banged up. The NC State game as well. If you went to the game in person and saw him struggling, you would know he was really hurting.

But the BC game is an interesting game to bring up. Before the game started, there was rumors Jerk, who had been hurt most of the season, might return to action against Syracuse. He had started practicing with the team the week of the Syracuse game.

He didn't. Garrett did. Pretty sure that was the reason we won. People get down on Garrett for his performance in that game, and a couple of others late, when in my mind, he was being a great team player, doing what was best for the team, even if he had deal with a lot of pain to get it done. Garrett being Garrett, he was not interested in going public with what he was going through, probably because he didn't want future opponents to know he was hurt, get specifics on it and game plan to take advantage of it.

Anyway, glad this info is coming to light. I don't think Garrett is perfect. He can and will get a lot better. But he wasn't close to 100% late in the season and that was a big factor in how ineffective the offense was. Almost as much of a factor as the deteriorating performance of the OL as injuries forced more and more backups to have to play.

this is why I love the Garret Shrader (and you! - lol)