The All Inclusive QB Room Discussion | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

The All Inclusive QB Room Discussion

And, with Beck stepping in he might just have the best in Lamson who I have never seen? It's going to be an interesting spring practice to determine not only who may be the best QB but all positions in need.

For those who have not seen Lamson.



OPOY in Northern Cal his Junior year. I’ve been told he played most of that year injured and still was able to pass for over 3,000 yards.

Covid took his senior year. Rather than play an abbreviated season in the spring of his senior year, he enrolled early at Cuse. This will be his second spring.

Let the teaching and competition begin.
 
A problem with Tommy was his head. How many times did he roll out just to immediately throw it out of bounds? After which, when a replay was shown, you could see open receivers. I don't think he was capable of checking his primary routes quickly. He seemed to panic. However, in his defense (or not - if you get the pun) the line was so bad he couldn't check all the way down.
So receivers are open (good) when TD is QB but the same receivers are not open (bad) when GS is QB? I keep seeing this over and over and no one explains this conundrum.
 
When players aren’t replaced due to bad performance some fans will think there is someone better that the coaches are over looking. The coaches knew that a gimpy Shrader was better than the alternative. Some people just don’t want to accept that.
Most of the time that's true, but everyone adapts in game differently. Jawhar Jordan was the starter 2 years ago. Drew Bledsoe had to get hurt for Tom Brady to get the job. I'm not saying Lamson or Morgan would have done better, but ya don't know. The kid from Georgia was a kid no one really wanted, had to go JUCO and beg Georgia for a scholly. Then he goes from like 73rd string to a natty.
 
So receivers are open (good) when TD is QB but the same receivers are not open (bad) when GS is QB? I keep seeing this over and over and no one explains this conundrum.
Garrett also had trouble getting the ball to open receivers. I think most people feel the receivers were open for both. Tommy struggled making the reads and Garrett often made the correct reads but couldn’t make the throws.
 
Most of the time that's true, but everyone adapts in game differently. Jawhar Jordan was the starter 2 years ago. Drew Bledsoe had to get hurt for Tom Brady to get the job. I'm not saying Lamson or Morgan would have done better, but ya don't know. The kid from Georgia was a kid no one really wanted, had to go JUCO and beg Georgia for a scholly. Then he goes from like 73rd string to a natty.
Of course there are players who can step up due to injuries and take advantage of the opportunity. That happens everywhere. The back ups are in position to show that because they have earned the coaches trust. Stetson Bennett earned it. Tom Brady earned the opportunitiy to be the next guy in through hard work and preparation He wasnt just thrown into fire without signs that he can handle it. They earned it and held off competition to keep their spot. The evaluation process is everyday of the year. Its not just on game day. Players have to show they can adapt in pressure situations in practice and scrimmages before you throw them into the fire. The trial by error method will cost you your job.

Question, if you think the coaches don't know if those two are better then what competitve Acc games will you like to see Morgan and Lamson play in? Are you willing to see SU lose those games so you can find out if they are better?
 
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There’s a reason we brough Villari in.

Lamson isn’t taking the starting job THIS year. Not saying he won’t in 2023 but it won’t be in 2022.

Villari has an outside chance at taking the starting role but it’s GS job. Villari will be a solid backup in case GS gets injured like he did at the end of last season. DB doesn’t want to be in the situation again where a wounded maybe 60% GS is better than the two QBs sitting on the bench which is why Villari was brought in.

This is all highly subject to change once Villari gets on campus, but from what I’ve seen in video from Villari, he’s a great back up for 2022.

This is all great news for 2023 because the QB competition is literally going to be wide open and these guys are all going to be pushing one another for the starting role.

The full court press is on right now in football and even tho the last couple years have been dismal, there is a lot of reason to be hopeful.
 
So receivers are open (good) when TD is QB but the same receivers are not open (bad) when GS is QB? I keep seeing this over and over and no one explains this conundrum.
You may have nailed it. Receivers get open... eventually. Not having a go-to receiver (Taj, Custis, Etta-Tawo) seriously affects the abilities of other receivers to get open. It may be our biggest need for 2022.
TD and Shrader didn't have the exact same receivers. Tommy had Taj (58 catches) and Nykiem (20) in 2020. Taj had 16 catches in only three games in 2021. That was 3rd highest on the team for the year. Jackson improved from 10 catches to 27. Johnson improved from 4 to 14. The only addition was Devaughn Cooper (21) and he only came on at the end of the season. Queeley's production went down from 37 to 15. Of the Freshmen, only Alford and Pena showed promise.
 
There’s a reason we brough Villari in.

Lamson isn’t taking the starting job THIS year. Not saying he won’t in 2023 but it won’t be in 2022.

Villari has an outside chance at taking the starting role but it’s GS job. Villari will be a solid backup in case GS gets injured like he did at the end of last season. DB doesn’t want to be in the situation again where a wounded maybe 60% GS is better than the two QBs sitting on the bench which is why Villari was brought in.

This is all highly subject to change once Villari gets on campus, but from what I’ve seen in video from Villari, he’s a great back up for 2022.

This is all great news for 2023 because the QB competition is literally going to be wide open and these guys are all going to be pushing one another for the starting role.

The full court press is on right now in football and even tho the last couple years have been dismal, there is a lot of reason to be hopeful.
Why will the QB competition be wide open in 2023? Shrader would still have eligibility. Assuming he takes the reigns again, a more experienced, better coach Shrader closes the door on competition heading into 2023.
 
Of course there are players who can step up due to injuries and take advantage of the opportunity. That happens everywhere. The back ups are in position to show that because they have earned the coaches trust. Stetson Bennett earned it. Tom Brady earned the opportunitiy to be the next guy in through hard work and preparation He wasnt just thrown into fire without signs that he can handle it. They earned it and held off competition to keep their spot. The evaluation process is everyday of the year. Its not just on game day. Players have to show they can adapt in pressure situations in practice and scrimmages before you throw them into the fire. The trial by error method will cost you your job.

Question, if you think the coaches don't know if those two are better then what competitve Acc games will you like to see Morgan and Lamson play in? Are you willing to see SU lose those games so you can find out if they are better?
I'm not saying they don't know, I'm just saying coaches aren't perfect. It's within the realm of possibility that Lamson could have come in and played that last game against PItt and done better. Also within the realm of possibility that he comes in and gets clobbered. I'm just saying, I like Dino as a person, but he has a hard time managing timeouts, it's not crazy to think it's possible he gets stubborn at times with "his guy." Morgan showed the ability to complete some passes the year before, in a game like NC St maybe he comes in and completes some passes and opens up the run, maybe he goes 8-20 for 60 yards.
 
So receivers are open (good) when TD is QB but the same receivers are not open (bad) when GS is QB? I keep seeing this over and over and no one explains this conundrum.
Ehhhh... We all know Shrader can improve as a passer. But this is what Devito and Shrader did this year in the games they played together in this year. Devito got the majority of the minutes until Albany. I wouldn't exactly say WR's were 'getting open' for Devito this year either. And that was with Taj before he bailed. Obviously the OL pass blocking factors into our passing numbers and in determining if the WR's are getting open. But nobody was really questioning Devito's throwing ability and this is what we got.

Against Ohio U.
1642176676876.png


Against Rutgers
1642176860081.png


Albany
1642176760869.png

'
 
Why will the QB competition be wide open in 2023? Shrader would still have eligibility. Assuming he takes the reigns again, a more experienced, better coach Shrader closes the door on competition heading into 2023.

Because I think Lamson ultimately overtakes both GS and Villari

I also think, as much as I like GS, he does have a ceiling and I think the ceiling is ultimately higher with Lamson
 
I'm not saying they don't know, I'm just saying coaches aren't perfect. It's within the realm of possibility that Lamson could have come in and played that last game against PItt and done better. Also within the realm of possibility that he comes in and gets clobbered. I'm just saying, I like Dino as a person, but he has a hard time managing timeouts, it's not crazy to think it's possible he gets stubborn at times with "his guy." Morgan showed the ability to complete some passes the year before, in a game like NC St maybe he comes in and completes some passes and opens up the run, maybe he goes 8-20 for 60 yards.
You didnt answer the questions.

and of course coaches arent perfect but they are not going to watch some one killing dudes in practice and say yeah, "he can't help us win" . They know who helps them win. Its not just based on skill level. What possibility are you basing your opinion on? Lamson's HS film? There's a lot of different reasons why players dont make the field. There's a year long evaluation process that determines who plays on game day. Decisions could be made from bad peformance in practice, lack of understanding of concepts or playbook, injury prone, off season issues, bad behavior, being selfish and and free styling. All the stuff effects team. It effects the 11 guys on the field. You are changing the narrative now. We are not talking about Dino personality and game management. That has nothing to do with how the staff evaluates and how players have earned their spot on the field.
 
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Ehhhh... We all know Shrader can improve as a passer. But this is what Devito and Shrader did this year in the games they played together in this year. Devito got the majority of the minutes until Albany. I wouldn't exactly say WR's were 'getting open' for Devito this year either. And that was with Taj before he bailed. Obviously the OL pass blocking factors into our passing numbers and in determining if the WR's are getting open. But nobody was really questioning Devito's throwing ability and this is what we got.

Against Ohio U.
View attachment 212733

Against Rutgers
View attachment 212735

Albany
View attachment 212734
'
Now do first years starting at QB
 
Wrs didnt get open.. QBs made bad reads, QBs made bad throws, WRs made bad reads.. lots of things went wrong..

Often the QB waited until he trusted the WR was open to make the throw. Then it was rushed/late and the WR was not open.. WRs dont need yds of space to be open if the throw is on time.

you could find 5-10 plays were we had Home Run throws that were 5-10 yds off and that just cant happen.

When Shrader was at his best he just threw the ball on time.. One reason he was better most of the time on Slants or Outs was that was his read and he just let it rip. He was on balance and ball was on time.. Its when he didnt trust the read, held the ball and then threw late that his accuracy failed..

like the VT throw.. he knew where he wanted to go and stepped into it. Other deep throws he saw late and the ball was all over the place..

Much like Ala in the title game. When he lost the 2 WRs that got huge cushions throwing became much harder.. he got pressure and had to throw earlier and the windows were much tighter.
 
Of course there are players who can step up due to injuries and take advantage of the opportunity. That happens everywhere. The back ups are in position to show that because they have earned the coaches trust. Stetson Bennett earned it. Tom Brady earned the opportunitiy to be the next guy in through hard work and preparation He wasnt just thrown into fire without signs that he can handle it. They earned it and held off competition to keep their spot. The evaluation process is everyday of the year. Its not just on game day. Players have to show they can adapt in pressure situations in practice and scrimmages before you throw them into the fire. The trial by error method will cost you your job.

Question, if you think the coaches don't know if those two are better then what competitve Acc games will you like to see Morgan and Lamson play in? Are you willing to see SU lose those games so you can find out if they are better?
Spot on. But there is one major caveat. Do the coaches know who the best players are. Do they play favorites. Do they value the right skills, can they ascertain the intangibles that are so important.
The great coaches obviously do. Good coaches more than not. Poor coaches not so much.
Having played 3 sports in HS and College Basketball i know that coaches dont always get it right.
My HS Basketball coach wasnt very good. College coach was excellent.
I have zero idea about Dino. My sense is hes good at identifying talent. Not very good at in game adjustments.
Our new QB and OC coaches seem to be a major upgrade and i expect they will be very good at player evaluation and picking the right QB. I think we have a strong QB position group. Future is promising.
 
Spot on. But there is one major caveat. Do the coaches know who the best players are. Do they play favorites. Do they value the right skills, can they ascertain the intangibles that are so important.
The great coaches obviously do. Good coaches more than not. Poor coaches not so much.
Having played 3 sports in HS and College Basketball i know that coaches dont always get it right.
My HS Basketball coach wasnt very good. College coach was excellent.
I have zero idea about Dino. My sense is hes good at identifying talent. Not very good at in game adjustments.
Our new QB and OC coaches seem to be a major upgrade and i expect they will be very good at player evaluation and picking the right QB. I think we have a strong QB position group. Future is promising.
Coaches play favorties to guys that work hard, buy in and are prepared to execute the game plan. Not having guys like that on the field will hurt you when you are playing the ultimate team sport. The staff values the skills of all their players because they recruited them specifically for that. They envisioned them playing in their scheme when they evaluated them out of HS. Its up to the player to put themselves in position to play. Being a former athlete Im sure you seen some players that are athletically gifted that cant put it all together. I know I have.

What do you mean your basketball coach wasnt good? Wasnt good at what? All coaches have strengths and weaknesses. You have to be specific. I didnt say anything about Dino's game management. We already know his struggles there. That has nothing to do with him playing the players that are prepared to win in a team sport.
 
I still think it’s weird how much we lay at TD’s feet. The OL in 2019 and 2020 was an absolute dumpster. And TD’s 2019 was a statistically better year throwing vs GS with the same amount of W’s.

I like everything we’ve done to put GS and the rest of the QB room into a spot to be successful. New OL last year, better recruiting both transfer and HS on the line, new OC and QB coach this year. Think about the duds we saddled Tommy with, lol.

Big picture, I’m super amped to see where we’re going. But the story on TD isn’t as simple as people like to make it, IMO.
When all things were equal this year, Schrader with less experience in the offense and less playing time in college overall won the job. The reasons are very simple and clear: Devito is great at 7v7 when no one is rushing him or hitting him and has all the time to run through reads from the pocket, but in a live game he struggled to move in the pocket and run through his progressions. Without a brick wall OL and multiple WRs that can regularly create separation he will never be successful; this was even evident his SR year of HS, but we all overlooked it because he was an Elite 11 QB. I don't think Devito got a raw deal, he simply never developed because he couldn't play at game speed.

GS is less talented, but his feel for the game, grit, and determination (all similar traits to Dungey) make him a good college QB. We literally hired Beck to address his main shortcomings but that is all coachable. What you can't coach are the intangibles that he already displays.
 
With all the debate of Shrader vs Villari, it'll be funny if Lamson beats them both out
mmmmm, I highly doubt this happens. Coaches might like his potential, but a hurt GS who could barely throw or run was better than Lamson at the end of the season. I just don't see him making that jump this season.
 
When all things were equal this year, Schrader with less experience in the offense and less playing time in college overall won the job. The reasons are very simple and clear: Devito is great at 7v7 when no one is rushing him or hitting him and has all the time to run through reads from the pocket, but in a live game he struggled to move in the pocket and run through his progressions. Without a brick wall OL and multiple WRs that can regularly create separation he will never be successful; this was even evident his SR year of HS, but we all overlooked it because he was an Elite 11 QB. I don't think Devito got a raw deal, he simply never developed because he couldn't play at game speed.

GS is less talented, but his feel for the game, grit, and determination (all similar traits to Dungey) make him a good college QB. We literally hired Beck to address his main shortcomings but that is all coachable. What you can't coach are the intangibles that he already displays.
I’m not saying he’s good or advocating him at all. I’m saying we did him no favors which however you view his talent - is true. A QB coach who wasn’t. An OC who wasn’t very good. A really bad OL coach and a rough group of OL.

GS is getting more help, IMO. And that’s good for the program.
 
I don’t like it.

Sure the QB room looks full now. But now we have three RS-Fr QB’s in that room.

If you’re Morgan or Lamson and the new OC and QB coaches, whom you haven’t even met yet, decide to bring another QB with the same amount of eligibility you have. How would you feel?

The new coaches haven’t seen any of the three RS-Fr workout in person. They’ve probably seen practice film for all three guys and decided there’s a need for a third RS-Fr QB?

This could backfire terribly.

It’s one thing to get recruited over with a younger player (more eligibility), but bringing in a guy with similar eligibility doesn’t send a good message to the guys who are already here.

We thought we were short handed with only three scholarship QB’s, but by the end of spring (or sooner) we could only have two scholarship QB’s on the roster.
I don’t care how they feel all I care about is the product on the field. If there is a threat they will all work hard to get past the next guy. Competition is good and will improve all of them top to bottom.
 
I don’t care how they feel all I care about is the product on the field. If there is a threat they will all work hard to get past the next guy. Competition is good and will improve all of them top to bottom.
I agree. Feelings are for the home. This is business. If they don’t like it I’m sure Rutgers is looking for someone. I say bring in EVERY qb possible and say.”We have SEAN TUCKER! If you can’t win with him as your rb, we don’t need you!” “Shrader, you better learn to throw YESTERDAY, (and preferably to a te once in a while)because we’re going to find SOMEONE to throw the damn ball!” You think a coach like Lombardi would care about these kids feelings? Problem with a lot of society is everyone brings their feelings to work(if they even have a job). Shut up and do your job! If you’re worried about someone else you can’t be focused on you. Buck-up little camper, LIFE AINT FAIR
 

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