The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[retro44]

Why would the University care all that much about what the coach's say about something as important to the University as joing the B1G or ACC or any major conference switch?

OK...I guess opinions is not at all important to coaches going forward.....In your world that is.It is to the ones who coach and deal with recruits and their parents,but what do Maryland landowners know?

 

[Townie72]

OK...I guess opinions is not at all important to coaches going forward...In your world that is.It is to the ones who coach and deal with recruits and their parents,but what do Maryland landowners know?

Conference membership is way, way too important a topic to be left to coaches, who for the most part are lower level University employees. We are talking big money here and that's why Presidents and Chancellors are involved. They might ask the coaches what they think, but it certainly isn't their decision.

 

[retro44]

Conference membership is way, way too important a topic to be left to coaches, who for the most part are lower level University employees. We are talking big money here and that's why Presidents and Chancellors are involved. They might ask the coaches what they think, but it certainly isn't their decision.

We were bolting from the Big East at that point so the coaches imput on where they felt most comfortable did matter. We had options,unlike Rutgirls......

 

[Townie72]

We were bolting from the Big East at that point so the coaches imput on where they felt most comfortable did matter. We had options,unlike Rutgirls...

What options were they?

I don't believe a word of this "Standing Invite to the B1G" story.

 

[retro44]

What options were they?

I don't believe a word of this "Standing Invite to the B1G" story.

I didn't say you have to, but I will stand by my cousin's story who was big in NYS state football and was very close to Doug.So to think my cousin who was mourning the passing of his mother a reason to lie in those moments is left for you to decide.

 

[daveinPA]

I didn't say you have to, but I will stand by my cousin's story who was big in NYS state football and was very close to Doug.So to think my cousin who was mourning the passing of his mother a reason to lie in those moments is left for you to decide.

If you take all the people in the entire world, including you, who believe that Syracuse had a standing offer to join the Big Ten, the total number would be 1.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I will take my cousins word over all else when he said that Marrone told him we had had a standing offer from the
Big Ten twice over to join. Marrone and Gedney both attended my aunts wake. Marrone and My cousin were close when he coached here. Doug when away from the mic and field was a great guy to talk to. Gross went around and asked all Syracuse coaches...ACC or Big 10. We now know the answer

I'll take you at your word that this in fact happened, but I'd have to wonder what due diligence was done in making the decision.
A conference switch is about more than athletics, & the academic standing of the B1G, not to mention the superior finances, would make you wonder why the ACC?
Don't get me wrong, I love the choice that was made, but CR being what it is the B1G is a much more stable conference. They're an Alpha in all this, so what determined our choosing the ACC instead? :noidea:

 

[TheCusian]

I'll take you at your word that this in fact happened, but I'd have to wonder what due diligence was done in making the decision. A conference switch is about more than athletics, & the academic standing of the B1G, not to mention the superior finances, would make you wonder why the ACC? Don't get me wrong, I love the choice that was made, but CR being what it is the B1G is a much more stable conference. They're an Alpha in all this, so what determined our choosing the ACC instead? :noidea:

There is no way just the coaches were consulted. I don't doubt that Gross would petition them however. The ACC was a better fit for a lot of reasons. Private school with a bunch of state schools is a good place to start. We fit better academically within the ACC too.

 

[rrlbees]

Conference membership is way, way too important a topic to be left to coaches, who for the most part are lower level University employees. We are talking big money here and that's why Presidents and Chancellors are involved. They might ask the coaches what they think, but it certainly isn't their decision.

I would say the decision was made by the Chancellor and BOT and a few high ranking officials. Probably the only coach they might listen to a little would be JB and he would have voted to stay in the BE.

 

[longtimefan]

I would say the decision was made by the Chancellor and BOT and a few high ranking officials. Probably the only coach they might listen to a little would be JB and he would have voted to stay in the BE.

Didn't JB say publicly, in his normal sarcastic fashion, that his opinion was neither offered nor sought?

 

[TexanMark]

There is no way just the coaches were consulted. I don't doubt that Gross would petition them however. The ACC was a better fit for a lot of reasons. Private school with a bunch of state schools is a good place to start. We fit better academically within the ACC too.

Also this was around the 2009-2011 time frame...TV money was way different then. Still the ACC is the right choice for us...our alumni/fanbase runs north/south along the Atlantic Coast.

 

[rrlbees]

Didn't JB say publicly, in his normal sarcastic fashion, that his opinion was neither offered nor sought?

Probably.

 

[DJSpanky]

What year does Rutgers' Athletics stop losing money?

How much revenue do they need to cover the subsidies?

Not an attack post, I'm genuinely curious.

Unfortunately it's our Olympic sports that pull us into the red. Also, we do some bizarre accounting that just about every other school doesn't do, which drives up the cost side of the ledger. Finally, the subsidy includes student fees, which a lot of other colleges charge, and which also covers the 10K+ student tickets for football and whatever student tickets there are for the revenue sports. (I believe the current subsidy is around $10 million - not sure on that though.) Now outside of all that, the ironic thing about all of this is that football has been in the black the last couple of years. And whenever people go on the attack in the local papers, it's always football that they target.

As for when RU Athletics stops losing money, it could be as soon as when the revenues from the new TV deals hit the coffers. Although we will still be getting a prorated share, whatever the increase is in a full share we will receive. So, for example, (and I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air), if a full share jumps from $20 million to $37 million, we will get the full $17 million increase.

 

[tipphill]

I think of the B1G's incorporation of RU as being similar to a real estate transaction where the buyer really wants only the land a house sits on and not the house itself.

The home owner may be all a-twitter with the compliment such an offer suggests, but they are deludng themselves. The B1G had to hold its nose at RU's long history of athletic failure to get access to the money these cable boxes represent.

When you are as bad as RU has been in as many sports as they have been the reasons are more deep-seated than just a need for more money.

u r correct. if u consider academics, ru fits the mold. large land grant university, in metro area with significant scientific research(and the dollars and prestige that go along with that), and med school. the addition of maryland and ru to big 10 was perfect sense. we have none of those attributes nor cable boxes. they are typical ne fanbase---however they do draw better attendance(football) than we do,DESPITE) their poor performance.

 

[sutomcat]

Unfortunately it's our Olympic sports that pull us into the red. Also, we do some bizarre accounting that just about every other school doesn't do, which drives up the cost side of the ledger. Finally, the subsidy includes student fees, which a lot of other colleges charge, and which also covers the 10K+ student tickets for football and whatever student tickets there are for the revenue sports. (I believe the current subsidy is around $10 million - not sure on that though.) Now outside of all that, the ironic thing about all of this is that football has been in the black the last couple of years. And whenever people go on the attack in the local papers, it's always football that they target. As for when RU Athletics stops losing money, it could be as soon as when the revenues from the new TV deals hit the coffers. Although we will still be getting a prorated share, whatever the increase is in a full share we will receive. So, for example, (and I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air), if a full share jumps from $20 million to $37 million, we will get the full $17 million increase.

RU's subsidy was 46.9 million in 2013, 36.3 million in 2014 and 23.8 million in 2015. RU no longer has the biggest subsidy in the country, although it still leads all P5 schools in this category (i.e .losing money).

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...cs-subsidy-no-longer-largest-nation/83174670/

 

[texascpa]

Conference membership is way, way too important a topic to be left to coaches, who for the most part are lower level University employees. We are talking big money here and that's why Presidents and Chancellors are involved. They might ask the coaches what they think, but it certainly isn't their decision.

While I agree in theory, sometimes the best move is what your employees want. Many years ago, the company I work at was deciding whether to move from downtown Houston to another area of Houston (Houston does not have zoning laws, so you can find high rise buildings in many areas of the city, though downtown has the most by far). The company had a presentation to the office employees. There was significant cost savings as was outlined by the company. However, the location would be much more difficult by car (traffic congestion) and bus (multiple stops/transfers instead of a straight trip). They then allowed us to vote, in secret, whether we wanted to stay or we were okay with the move. It was obvious that the senior leadership and those in control of the final decision wanted the cost savings. The employees overwhelmingly wanted to stay put. Sr. Leadership listened and we stayed. So, sometimes the big guys do listen and take in account what the low level employees want.

 

[Pharm73]

What year does Rutgers' Athletics stop losing money?

How much revenue do they need to cover the subsidies?

Not an attack post, I'm genuinely curious.

------
As others have mentioned, it is not the football program draining money... The program generated a 2 million dollar profit for the fiscal 2014 year and a 8 million dollar profit for 2015

I cannot link said report, but you can google rutgers turning profit in football and see linked articles, one being from the asbury press, Jan. 28th.

Rutgers only received somewhere between 9 and 10 million from the big 10 this past year, if all 14 schools received an equal amount RU would have gotten almost$30 million, so the slow admittance payments are painful, but in about 5 years full payment will begin...

The figures were not available there, but the men's basketball also did not cause a drain either... Having so many other non revenue, or poor revenue sports is the real problem...

Attempts to trim programs like crew cause an unfair backlash against the finances of the football program, by those who don't follow the actual numbers.

To answer the question as to the entire debt, I would guess 4 to 5 years, when full big 10 money is available. Sumocat listed the decreasing subsides over the past three years, the added tv revenue in 4 years should close the gap to just about zero.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Pharm73 something doesn't add up big time in your explanation.(not to be argumentative) How can football and basketball be profitable while RU keeps losing huge $ overall in athletics? I can't imagine the 2 mens sports RU has that SU doesn't - wrestling and golf and the 2 womens sports - swimming and golf are causing the need for over $100 million in subsidies over the past 3 years.

Remember RU was thrilled to go to the Big 10 in the first place because they were needing subsidies, hemorrhaging money in the Big East well before joining. Somewhere the numbers don't add up. If I was an RU fan, looking at the numbers logically - something doesn't make sense. With so many years of the large subsidies they have had, it will take many years to clear up that debt before RU athletics show a profit overall. Sure doesn't make sense if football, basketball have been breaking even, less making a small profit. Administration costs would have to be outrageous.

 

[texascpa]

------
As others have mentioned, it is not the football program draining money... The program generated a 2 million dollar profit for the fiscal 2014 year and a 8 million dollar profit for 2015

I cannot link said report, but you can google rutgers turning profit in football and see linked articles, one being from the asbury press, Jan. 28th.

Rutgers only received somewhere between 9 and 10 million from the big 10 this past year, if all 14 schools received an equal amount RU would have gotten almost$30 million, so the slow admittance payments are painful, but in about 5 years full payment will begin...

The figures were not available there, but the men's basketball also did not cause a drain either... Having so many other non revenue, or poor revenue sports is the real problem...

Attempts to trim programs like crew cause an unfair backlash against the finances of the football program, by those who don't follow the actual numbers.

To answer the question as to the entire debt, I would guess 4 to 5 years, when full big 10 money is available. Sumocat listed the decreasing subsides over the past three years, the added tv revenue in 4 years should close the gap to just about zero.

You still needed almost $24M in subsidies (student fees, taxes, etc) in 2015 to balance your budget.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...s-23-million-inaugural-big-ten-year/79332824/

 

[Pharm73]

Thanks for the response... My best guess is an accounting change, where paying off the stadium expansion is now not figured against the incoming and outgoing monies, but that cost is in another category... Again, just a guess... I think this one way of accounting is used by many programs, those that recently renovated, RU was just more honest about it previously.

I can tell you that if you make that accounting change, the 8 million dollar profit reported is very believable... The ticket and parking prices have gone up considerably
For football, over the past couple of years... Very high parking fees, required seat gifts, etc... It puts a strain on my group of nine who are season ticket holders.

It seems that every university is wallowing in debt, one way or another... A quick google of Syracuse university shows a 400 million dollar debt which swallows up 40 percent of the budget... On the surface, it sounds bad, but if you look at the total amount of money Syracuse has, manageable... But if somebody has an axe to grind, they could have a glaring headline as though it was a disaster, which it probably is not.

 

[Pharm73]

You still needed almost $24M in subsidies (student fees, taxes, etc) in 2015 to balance your budget.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/col...s-23-million-inaugural-big-ten-year/79332824/

----
On this all I can say is that you see the numbers trending in the right direction, and with the school getting 20 million less than the other programs in the big 10

Actually, the money from the big 10 this year was about the same as RU got from its last year in the AAC

Not an accountant by any means, but it does look like the university would be revenue neutral in sports, or really close to it, in 4 years or so, with that 20 million or more... And the football program being responsible for closing a lot of the shortfall

 

[TexanMark]

------
As others have mentioned, it is not the football program draining money... The program generated a 2 million dollar profit for the fiscal 2014 year and a 8 million dollar profit for 2015

I cannot link said report, but you can google rutgers turning profit in football and see linked articles, one being from the asbury press, Jan. 28th.

Rutgers only received somewhere between 9 and 10 million from the big 10 this past year, if all 14 schools received an equal amount RU would have gotten almost$30 million, so the slow admittance payments are painful, but in about 5 years full payment will begin...

The figures were not available there, but the men's basketball also did not cause a drain either... Having so many other non revenue, or poor revenue sports is the real problem...

Attempts to trim programs like crew cause an unfair backlash against the finances of the football program, by those who don't follow the actual numbers.

To answer the question as to the entire debt, I would guess 4 to 5 years, when full big 10 money is available. Sumocat listed the decreasing subsides over the past three years, the added tv revenue in 4 years should close the gap to just about zero.

You lost it right there..."the men's basketball also did not cause a drain either..."

Seriously?

 

[Pharm73]

You lost it right there..."the men's basketball also did not cause a drain either..."

Seriously?

RU reported a 1.2 million dollar profit in men's bb. For the fiscal 2014 year... Even though the program and attendance is terrible, it did not lose money then... Don't have the 2015 figures, but I would guess it was slightly better still.

Let's not confuse the product on the court with the money involved.

 

[TheCusian]

RU reported a 1.2 million dollar profit in men's bb. For the fiscal 2014 year... Even though the program and attendance is terrible, it did not lose money then... Don't have the 2015 figures, but I would guess it was slightly better still. Let's not confuse the product on the court with the money involved.

Hmm. Attendance and program is terrible - but you made money? Better check your books again.

 

[Pharm73]

Hmm. Attendance and program is terrible - but you made money? Better check your books again.

-----
I just did, the figure is correct... Two things, traveling cost are not like football, and tv money probably is the difference... We are talking about revenue and expenses on a much smaller scale than football, it probably doesn't take much to have it as a net gain...