The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[Townie72]

Oh,hey, yeah,but I do remember hearing Nancy Cantor calling out her office windows at DR.Gross when I was working up there at times to get townie on line 1 of the bat phone and keep him updated since he lives in Maryland.

Well, the lame humor notwithstanding, rewriting history to add this fiction or fantasy of an "open invitation to join the B1G" or a serious effort on campus to determine which of the two Conferences we should join really is funny.

SU had one choice. Join the ACC or not.

Find me a credible quote or source anywhere from someone who was in a position to know that shows we had or could have had a B1G invite.

 

[Townie72]

Well, there WAS one.

Sincerely,

Diamond Ferri

The games was a big deal and a major disappointment for BC, but a minor deal for SU.

Rivalries are built from games that mean a lot to both teams ... like just about every basketball game we ever played with GU during the 80's and 90's.

 

[TexanMark]

Well, the lame humor notwithstanding, rewriting history to add this fiction or fantasy of an "open invitation to join the B1G" or a serious effort on campus to determine which of the two Conferences we should join really is funny.

SU had one choice. Join the ACC or not.

Find me a credible quote or source anywhere from someone who was in a position to know that shows we had or could have had a B1G invite.

Well known fact Lloyd Carr came in to Cuse on a secret jet visit around 2010...could be related to what Retro is claiming. I have heard that Cuse had a choice too between two conferences.

 

[orange79]

The games was a big deal and a major disappointment for BC, but a minor deal for SU.

Rivalries are built from games that mean a lot to both teams ... like just about every basketball game we ever played with GU during the 80's and 90's.

I wasn't talking about rivalries. I was responding to your statements that "the games were not all that meaningful nor eventful". And I would dispute the statement that the game as a minor deal for SU. It allowed us to finish over .500 for the regular season. I don't want to get into the whole P discussion, but that game was most certainly a big deal for SU.

 

[Townie72]

Well known fact Lloyd Carr came in to Cuse on a secret jet visit around 2010...could be related to what Retro is claiming. I have heard that Cuse had a choice too between two conferences.

A single airplane trip that "could have been related" and some rumors from unnamed sources?

Were these SU people that were aware of this or involved all sworn to secrecy such that even now years after the fact there's no one describing it. (Reminds me of some USAF friends that used to break out in a sweat when they were asked about gaps in there service records during their VN tours (Laos))

Through the years there's been a lot of scrutiny applied to this. That not so much as a whisper occurred suggests strongly to me that this is all a fantasy.

 

[Townie72]

I wasn't talking about rivalries. I was responding to your statements that "the games were not all that meaningful nor eventful". And I would dispute the statement that the game as a minor deal for SU. It allowed us to finish over .500 for the regular season. I don't want to get into the whole P discussion, but that game was most certainly a big deal for SU.

Finishing over .500? That's it?

That's not meaningless. But meaningful?

A meaningful SU vs. BC game frpm amn SU perspective would have been at Cornell in 79 when we lost to them in a game that kept us out of the first major bowl since the 1960's.

But even that doesn't really matter. BC is just another game on SU's schedule. And it pretty much has been that way for the last 50 years.

 

[orange79]

Finishing over .500? That's it?

That's not meaningless. But meaningful?

A meaningful SU vs. BC game frpm amn SU perspective would have been at Cornell in 79 when we lost to them in a game that kept us out of the first major bowl since the 1960's.

But even that doesn't really matter. BC is just another game on SU's schedule. And it pretty much has been that way for the last 50 years.

OK, I guess the kids don't care if they finish 4-8 (two years prior) or 6-6 (the previous year). Sorry, didn't realize you had your finger on the pulse of the kids playing the game. I bet it was meaningful for those kids. If you can't see this, sorry.

Again, I was responding to your statement quoted above. I don't consider BC a 'rival' either. Unfortunately, they're the closest thing we have.

Out.

Can we just get back to making fun of Rutgers?

 

[Townie72]

OK, I guess the kids don't care if they finish 4-8 (two years prior) or 6-6 (the previous year). Sorry, didn't realize you had your finger on the pulse of the kids playing the game. I bet it was meaningful for those kids. If you can't see this, sorry.

Again, I was responding to your statement quoted above. I don't consider BC a 'rival' either. Unfortunately, they're the closest thing we have.

Out.

Can we just get back to making fun of Rutgers?

Rutgers is a never-ending source of opportunities to make fun. Just when you think they have done all they can do, up pops another chance.

I am something of a student of Statistics. I have always been interested in distributions, probabilities and trends. You would expect that over the long run, schools with similar resources playing against similar rules would have up and down cycles and would over the long term be "average".

Of course, in college sports, you'd have to take the elite programs out of the mix.

But for all their resources and advantages, RU has defied this idea of being "average" when they have stepped up from being a Patriot League level school.

There are things we cannot see. Something must be in the water. They didn't win a single B1G basketball game last year and only 1 football game. Their basketball teams loses to schools like Rider and NJIT. It's really incredible. It's like they are trying to lose.

But this isn't the NFL where you can tank the season to get a better position in the Draft.

 

[Pharm73]

The numbers you posted in another post, claim $2MM in profit, not the $8MM.

The $400MM debt at SU you identified is from three years ago and is University wide, not related to the Athletic Department. Most universities (and businesses) carry some debt for convenience. What is being debated in this section of this thread is the debt of the Rutgers Athletic Department and whether the Rutgers AD will become truly profitable (if yes, when).

Now, be honest, has Rutgers fandom increased or is Rutgers merely the beneficiary of the B1G opponents traveling fan bases. Those numbers would resolve much of the debate.

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The 8 million profit was for 2015, the 2 million was 2014... I posted more detail on the 2014 season because I had ready access to it... Our attendance went down a bit in 2015, yet the football profit figures went up... There was an increase in pricing that accounts for part of the jump.

 

[Pharm73]

A tad disingenuous there...your board has numerous Cuse threads throughout the time since this one started...hell you even have one talking about this thread there right now. We smartly have chosen to design a "one stop shop" of all that is Rutgirls. Much easier to relive your lows with AD's, Coaches, Ruttie BB games with 7 students attending, Player buffoonery and your school siphoning NJ Taxes to support your AD.

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You may not agree but I think Cuse fans talk about RU a lot more than RU fans discuss Cuse... There is more of an obsession about Michigan and Penn state on the RU board because they are now more important than discussing out of league teams we do not play.

You can continue to have fun with this thread all you like ...

 

[Pharm73]

We don't have one right now.

Even though we have played BC and Pitt for many decades. Neither has ever achieved that status because the games were not all that meaningful nor eventful.

The RU people --- because they have never had one, I guess --- seem to feel that everyone has or needs a "rival". This shows a lack of understanding of what rivalries are and how they are formed.

It's the same approach they tried to use with SU and now with PSU (or Maryland) or whoever. Pick a school you want to be associated and than try to drum up a rivalry by being insulting on forums on the Internet. That's not the way it works.

Some RU people used tried to pretend Princeton was a rival. I guess they were if it were possible to have completely one-sided Rivalry. The Princeton people for some strange reason thought their rivals were Harvard and Yale and to a lesser degree, Penn.

Here's my acid test for a real rivalry. If you go 8-3 in football in a season an one of those losses is to your rival, the season is not really seen as a success. And if you go 3-8 and one of the wins is against you rival, than that season is seen as something of a success.

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Ancient history here... I went to college in the early 70's and Princeton was certainly a rival... In fact up to that time they probably had the better of it, till RU decided to move towards an upgrade and Princeton no longer wanted to play.


Today
There is no true football rival for RU right now... I mention Maryland only a possible rival, since we are close, and about equally matched right now... The first two games in league were both decided in the waning minutes, so we can hope for more of that.
We seem to be going head to head with them for numerous recruits also... So it might develop.

If it does not, it is not a big deal anyway, a bitter rival is not necessary for success.

 

[Townie72]

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You may not agree but I think Cuse fans talk about RU a lot more than RU fans discuss Cuse... There is more of an obsession about Michigan and Penn state on the RU board because they are now more important than discussing out of league teams we do not play.

You can continue to have fun with this thread all you like ...

You may or may not know that we here are fully aware that RU is in the B1G because of the number of cable boxes in NJ.

I imagine the RU fans are fixated on PSU and UM. But that neither of these fan bases barely know RU exists. Just like the majority of the time RU was in the Big East where for most of the time it was a parasite, taking much and contributing nothing.

 

[retro44]

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You may not agree but I think Cuse fans talk about RU a lot more than RU fans discuss Cuse... There is more of an obsession about Michigan and Penn state on the RU board because they are now more important than discussing out of league teams we do not play.

You can continue to have fun with this thread all you like ...

And you came back 10 minutes later...

 

[Townie72]

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Ancient history here... I went to college in the early 70's and Princeton was certainly a rival... In fact up to that time they probably had the better of it, till RU decided to move towards an upgrade and Princeton no longer wanted to play.


Today
There is no true football rival for RU right now... I mention Maryland only a possible rival, since we are close, and about equally matched right now... The first two games in league were both decided in the waning minutes, so we can hope for more of that.
We seem to be going head to head with them for numerous recruits also... So it might develop.

If it does not, it is not a big deal anyway, a bitter rival is not necessary for success.

I doubt RU fans won't continue to cast about for the rival they think they need.

You are right, though. A rival isn't required for success either. Nor as in Rutgers case, it's not required for failure either. As the last 30+ years of RU Athletics have demonstrated.

 

[Townie72]

Pharmacy73

I grew up in Princeton three blocks from the stadium.. I attended all the PU football games over a 15 year period ... every game.

Rutgers was never even a big game for PU, let alone a rivalry. It was a warm-up game for the Ivy League season. That's all.

It was a big deal to the RU people apparently, although the game was never a sell out at Palmer Stadium (18 miles from the RU campus). But the big Ivy games always sold out the 45K seat horse shoe.

Don't try and rewrite history for someone who was actually there.

 

[Pharm73]

And you came back 10 minutes later...

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I visit upon occasion and when I do I stay for a day or two... Retired, plenty of time to shoot the breeze

No worries, I will be out of your hair soon.

 

[orange79]

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I visit upon occasion and when I do I stay for a day or two... Retired, plenty of time to shoot the breeze

No worries, I will be out of your hair soon.

Stay. As opposed to many of the Rutgers trolls, you are providing discourse on the thread topic. Our posters may not agree with all you say, but at least you are being cordial and defending your point. Breath of fresh air.

 

[Pharm73]

Pharmacy73

I grew up in Princeton three blocks from the stadium.. I attended all the PU football games over a 15 year period ... every game.

Rutgers was never even a big game for PU, let alone a rivalry. It was a warm-up game for the Ivy League season. That's all.

It was a big deal to the RU people apparently, although the game was never a sell out at Palmer Stadium (18 miles from the RU campus). But the big Ivy games always sold out the 45K seat horse shoe.

Don't try and rewrite history for someone who was actually there.

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It was a big enough game to have been played at Princeton every year for a while, as opposed to alternating sites, because the crowd would be too big to play at RU

Look, I am not saying we were the biggest rival out there, but there was plenty of history between the two, the stolen cannon legacy, what ever...

Princeton may have had bigger rivals over the years but I know the game mattered to them, I was there also... They also did not like losing to RU and after losing a couple in a row ended the series ... That ruffled a few feathers...

 

[Pharm73]

Stay. As opposed to many of the Rutgers trolls, you are providing discourse on the thread topic. Our posters may not agree with all you say, but at least you are being cordial and defending your point. Breath of fresh air.

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Thanks

 

[Pharm73]

You may or may not know that we here are fully aware that RU is in the B1G because of the number of cable boxes in NJ.

I imagine the RU fans are fixated on PSU and UM. But that neither of these fan bases barely know RU exists. Just like the majority of the time RU was in the Big East where for most of the time it was a parasite, taking much and contributing nothing.

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Every Legitimate RU fan would admit that it was our location that pretty much got us into the big 10

Every legitimate RU fan would admit that the better big 10 teams are not concerned with RU.

 

[tipphill]

On attendance.

First, when you play Ohio State or Michigan amongst the thousands of their alumni who live in NY and NJ, you are going to get a spike in your attendance.

It's like what happens to Georgetown BB attendance when they play SU or Villanova at home. Half the seats they sell are to fans of opposing teams.

Secondly, Rutgers sits in an extremely dense population center. All of whom would prefer to see the Giants play, but cannot get tickets.

When Temple was thrown out of the BE for low attendence they were getting about 7K per game. Most of the BE schools were averaging in the high 30K - 40K range. Rutgers was getting under 20K. I thought at the time that the BE should just go ahead and throw them out too. They were parasites on the Conference.

all of what u said is true!!!! that does not change the fact that ru gets better attendance at football. the figure that u cite at 20k a game is ancient history. we are dealing with the here and now (and has been for the past 10 yrs or more). further, our lack of growth academically and research wise u have not addressed, nor do i expect u to, other than acknowledge that it has an impact. my point is simply we are lacking in the MAJOR academic areas, dragging our feet on the stadium, talking about the giants---(not sure why)and not addressing the issues in the gestalt football and academics wise. comparing basketball stuff is not relevant to the discussion. further u suggest that because ohio state and michigan boost ru attendance---thats an issue. of course it is and that is exactly why they are in the big 10. keep making these excuses and we will remain mired in the same mediocrity. the issue is not reasons why this is, but rather how do we impact our status on the NATIONAL stage. i will stop here . there is much more to be said but not on a football forum.

 

[orange79]

all of what u said is true!!!! that does not change the fact that ru gets better attendance at football. the figure that u cite at 20k a game is ancient history. we are dealing with the here and now (and has been for the past 10 yrs or more). further, our lack of growth academically and research wise u have not addressed, nor do i expect u to, other than acknowledge that it has an impact. my point is simply we are lacking in the MAJOR academic areas, dragging our feet on the stadium, talking about the giants---(not sure why)and not addressing the issues in the gestalt football and academics wise. comparing basketball stuff is not relevant to the discussion. further u suggest that because ohio state and michigan boost ru attendance---thats an issue. of course it is and that is exactly why they are in the big 10. keep making these excuses and we will remain mired in the same mediocrity. the issue is not reasons why this is, but rather how do we impact our status on the NATIONAL stage. i will stop here . there is much more to be said but not on a football forum.

Other than a medical school, what MAJOR academic areas do we lack?

 

[Moontan]

Other than a medical school, what MAJOR academic areas do we lack?

Capitalization, apparently.

 

[tipphill]

Other than a medical school, what MAJOR academic areas do we lack?

research accreditation and membership. it maybe a credential--but it translates into dollars and prestige at the university level. by the way, the law school has been lacking for several years.

 

[orange79]

research accreditation and membership. it maybe a credential--but it translates into dollars and prestige at the university level. by the way, the law school has been lacking for several years.

Syracuse University moves into top tier of research universities

Syracuse University has moved into the top tier for research among doctoral universities across the country.

SU moved from the second-tier in 2010 to the top tier for 2015, according to recently published findings of the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.

The classifications, which are issued twice a decade, placed SU in the highest research category, according to an SU news release.

The classifications are based on research activity data that Carnegie compares among doctoral programs. The criteria they look at include research and development expenditures, research staff and the number of doctoral degrees conferred.

SU was one of 15 universities nationwide to move from the second tier to the top tier from 2010 to 2015.

The U.S. Department of Education uses the classifications to organize data and determine a school's eligibility for grant money, according to SU's release.