The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread... | Page 207 | Syracusefan.com

The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

Jerseynole8 said:
I think the view of Rutgers being the epitome of a "suitcase college" was true 15+ years ago. Certainly it was while I attended undergrad there in the late '90's - early '00's. However, many I have spoke with who work on campus say things have changed over the past 10 years. One is just a sign of the times. Kids are so into their smart phones, have Twitter, Snapchat, etc. and don't need to go home to see friends and family as often. Kids are just more "stationary" in general so to speak or more willing to take the path of least resistance (aka stay at school rather than incur travel time/gas money). The second is the addition of more things to do on campus. For instance, while I was there Livingston Campus was a barren wasteland except for the RAC. I hated when I had classes there. Now you drive over there and they have retail stores and chains like Chipotle, a movie theater and supposedly a state of the art dining complex. College Ave has also significantly upped their game with the addition of the apartment complex where the grease trucks were which also includes popular chains on the ground floor. There are certainly more things than just the College Ave student center and Au Bon Pain. These things may seem silly/trivial to adults but trust me they don't to teenagers. Also now you factor in that they are in the Big Ten and even though they aren't good on the field the names of the schools coming in to play will keep kids there to party and tailgate in the fall. You don't need to win on the field to party in the lots.

On a side note. A few years ago I went into the education field and I see more high school kids wearing Rutgers gear than I had when I was in school 20 years ago. Also believe it or not, kids are dying to get into RU. I've had students tell me they were upset that they couldn't get in. One girl I coached this year was crushed that she got into Rutgers and couldn't afford to attend. Another state school (Stockton) offered her more in grants/aid and she wisely opted to go there instead. And this kid is as bright and talented as any (she also got into Penn State and Maryland), she just didn't want to incur that much debt. I was also shocked to learn how much RU now costs per year for in-state students which is a travesty.

I will be the first to say that Rutgers is not the campus experience that you get at Ann Arbor or in Madison or even State College, PA (puke). And it certainly isn't what you get at a southern school like Florida State, North Carolina, Georgia, etc which is a totally different world than the north when it comes to college campus life. But I don't think the suitcase college moniker or comparing RU to the K-mart of college experiences is accurate any longer. I work with high school students every day and I can tell you there is a much different perception of the school now than there was when I was in school. And they are the perspective clientele so I take what they have to say more seriously than some old guys on a message board who obviously have little respect for the institution lol. So your sweeping generalization that "no one in NJ wants to go to Rutgers if they can avoid it" is patently false. There are 9 million people in the state...a lot more than the people you may know/who you've talked to.
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Ahhhh, Rutgers.

It's always about "How great it's gonna be!" Or "Those were the olden days an we are going to change". Or "Now that we are in the B1G things are going to be different."

Having gone to college I know that "No one wants to go there" is an ovestatement. But so, should you. And to pick at the fact that I haven't sufficiently qualified it doesn't help.

We both know that the Rutgers relationship with the people of the Garden State is different from all of the other B1G schools and many other large state schools. Rutgers to New Jerseyans is not what OSU is to Ohioan or even what Illinois is to the great unwashed masses of people in The Land of Lincoln.

Some of that is because of history. When it was just Rutgers College, it was tiny compared to these other state schools.

We both know that the most powerful people in NJ aren't connected to Rutgers. At the Inner harbor in Baltimore once, a very smart guy asked me to turn around and look at all the big buildings. "See those buildings?" he said, "If you want to know who supports (runs?) the Maryland Athletic Department just look at the offices on the top floors of those buildings".

I am an old guy. But I doubt things have changed that much. When I went to Princeton High School everyone I knew who went to Rutgers either was indifferent to what I would call "a real college experience" or it was their family could afford (Frequently it was both).

They were frequently back in their home towns on weekend, not because they missed home so much, but rather there just wasn't anything to do in New Brunswick.

So, for athletes, who are price-indifferent because of scholarships, RU would seem to be a strange choice. (Unless they were from Florida and they were fed a complete pack of lies about National Championships and the accessibility of New York City which none of them could afford to go to even if they had time to do it.)

But instead of arguing with me, you really ought to be trying to solve the great Rutgers Riddle.

I just read that Rutgers Athletics programs ranked #164 out of 165 teams in front of only Washington State. Given the size of the school and its location, it seems almost impossible that they could be so uniformly bad for so long.

There have to be fundamental reasons underlying this absolutely woeful long-term performance. So instead of arguing with SU guys, who have little concern and no respect for the school, you ought to be trying to figure the answer to what the fundamental, structural problems are.

And it's not a single coaching hire. And it's not a single AD. And it isn't some politician in Trenton that seems to be unsympathetic. And its not a sports columnist being negative. Even all this put together doesn't get at it.

Why the fan base of the 164th worst sports program would have an opinion about any other schools athletic program is beyond surprising.

Rutger's great sin in the eyes of SU fans was their attempt to suggest there was some sort of parity in our programs and histories by trying to say we were a "Rival". That's the real source of what's behind this long thread.

Now, unbelievably, the RU fan base seems to have decided that Penn State is their "Rival". Talk about "over reach". Rutgers isn't going to be considered a Penn State rival because of the significant "Stature Gap" between the schools.

But I ssupect that RU fans will attempt to gin up some sort of hatred by being as obnoxious as possible. Which to a New Jerseyans ought to be as easy as blocking a few traffic lanes to get the desired result.

Rutgers is in the B1G because of the number of cable subscribers in NJ. And the fact that there are a lot of BIG alums in the NY Metro area. It wasn't because of the RU athletic program, it was in spite of it.
 
Very fair and valid post. Penn State isn't Rutgers rival and neither was Syracuse. I'd say in football, outside of Princeton, Rutgers most recent rival would have been UCONN if they had one at all. Both were trying to build their football programs up at the same point in history. The riddle isn't that hard to solve. When it comes to the university in general, good old New Jersey bureaucracy keeps the school tripping over itself. Anyone who went there (and probably even people who didn't) know about the "RU screw". Is there red tape at most public universities? I'm sure to some degree there is. But not like at Rutgers. Anyone who has lived in NJ for any decent amount of time can understand how the culture permeates into the flagship university. When it comes to athletics, it's purely a matter of not everyone being on the same page as to what you want to be. Does Rutgers want to go back to playing Lafayette, Lehigh and Delaware or compete at the highest level? They half-assed the attempt to go "bigger time" for 30 years. Being in an ever-decaying Big East didn't help matters much because it really fed the argument to go back to 1-AA, not move up a level. From politicians, the general public and those within the university itself, everyone was divided as to what RU should do when it came down to sports. Now there is really no going back so no matter how bad they lose on the court or the field, the pathetic cries from trolls on NJ.com are a waste of breath. The school and the state will not give up the payday when they finally get it in 3 years.

Also, this is the biggest pro sports market in the country. Even when St. Johns and Big East basketball was in it's glory years in the 80's, it was popular but was it more popular than a very mediocre Knicks franchise? More popular than the Yankees or the Giants in general? Not even close. In states like Ohio, pro sports has been secondary to the Buckeyes for generations. And if you live in Michigan, are you going to take more pride in the Wolverines or the Detroit Lions given the history of both over the past 60 years? How about Wisconsin where there is exactly one pro sports team (albeit a great one) to really boast of? How about Iowa and Nebraska where there are NO pro teams to support? To even most PSU alumni I know, and I know a lot of them as I have several very close friends who went there, their Giants, Jets, Eagles and Steelers are more important to them than Nittany Lions football. Maybe for those in the sticks of central PA it's different but not for those who live in metropolitan areas.

Have I myself thought about RU packing up shop and going back to FCS level recently? Absolutely. I've got my Seminoles (grad school and wife went there) who play in a much more college football hungry region than what I've got here. However, and I know people like you are sick of hearing this, you have to give a fully financially vested Rutgers some time in the Big Ten. And they won't even get that until 2020. If they can't get all sports (way) up from that #164 ranking in the next 10-15 years then they never will. Pull the plug. I am realistic enough to envision their best case scenario is being Northwestern (or more like Minnesota because of the wrestling) in sports and I'd sign for that. Northwestern's football has vastly improved over the past 20 years from what it was and Fitzgerald is a solid coach. I think RU's ceiling in basketball is a little (not a lot) higher than Northwestern's given they have a good college on campus arena and at least some decent history to be able to point to. I think Pikiell did a nice job for what he had last year and they have a nice recruiting class so far for 2018. Again, will they become Syracuse or Uconn? LOL no. But they could be a middle of the road Big Ten hoops teams most years with a nice season every now and then.
 
Jerseynole8 said:
Very fair and valid post. Penn State isn't Rutgers rival and neither was Syracuse. I'd say in football, outside of Princeton, Rutgers most recent rival would have been UCONN if they had one at all. Both were trying to build their football programs up at the same point in history. The riddle isn't that hard to solve. When it comes to the university in general, good old New Jersey bureaucracy keeps the school tripping over itself. Anyone who went there (and probably even people who didn't) know about the "RU screw". Is there red tape at most public universities? I'm sure to some degree there is. But not like at Rutgers. Anyone who has lived in NJ for any decent amount of time can understand how the culture permeates into the flagship university. When it comes to athletics, it's purely a matter of not everyone being on the same page as to what you want to be. Does Rutgers want to go back to playing Lafayette, Lehigh and Delaware or compete at the highest level? They half-assed the attempt to go "bigger time" for 30 years. Being in an ever-decaying Big East didn't help matters much because it really fed the argument to go back to 1-AA, not move up a level. From politicians, the general public and those within the university itself, everyone was divided as to what RU should do when it came down to sports. Now there is really no going back so no matter how bad they lose on the court or the field, the pathetic cries from trolls on NJ.com are a waste of breath. The school and the state will not give up the payday when they finally get it in 3 years.

Also, this is the biggest pro sports market in the country. Even when St. Johns and Big East basketball was in it's glory years in the 80's, it was popular but was it more popular than a very mediocre Knicks franchise? More popular than the Yankees or the Giants in general? Not even close. In states like Ohio, pro sports has been secondary to the Buckeyes for generations. And if you live in Michigan, are you going to take more pride in the Wolverines or the Detroit Lions given the history of both over the past 60 years? How about Wisconsin where there is exactly one pro sports team (albeit a great one) to really boast of? How about Iowa and Nebraska where there are NO pro teams to support? To even most PSU alumni I know, and I know a lot of them as I have several very close friends who went there, their Giants, Jets, Eagles and Steelers are more important to them than Nittany Lions football. Maybe for those in the sticks of central PA it's different but not for those who live in metropolitan areas.

Have I myself thought about RU packing up shop and going back to FCS level recently? Absolutely. I've got my Seminoles (grad school and wife went there) who play in a much more college football hungry region than what I've got here. However, and I know people like you are sick of hearing this, you have to give a fully financially vested Rutgers some time in the Big Ten. And they won't even get that until 2020. If they can't get all sports (way) up from that #164 ranking in the next 10-15 years then they never will. Pull the plug. I am realistic enough to envision their best case scenario is being Northwestern (or more like Minnesota because of the wrestling) in sports and I'd sign for that. Northwestern's football has vastly improved over the past 20 years from what it was and Fitzgerald is a solid coach. I think RU's ceiling in basketball is a little (not a lot) higher than Northwestern's given they have a good college on campus arena and at least some decent history to be able to point to. I think Pikiell did a nice job for what he had last year and they have a nice recruiting class so far for 2018. Again, will they become Syracuse or Uconn? LOL no. But they could be a middle of the road Big Ten hoops teams most years with a nice season every now and then.
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I buy a lot of what you have to say.

As I tried to say, I can't think of a reason that RU shouldn't be mediocre at least in almost every sport. And just like all the other schools, they ought to be occasionally good at some sports like Northwestern.

But I'm not sure that's enough, at least for the New Jerseyans I grew up with. They will never be satisfied or interested in mediocre, especially in college sports. Which, as you intimate, are really second tier sports in their view.

To get their attention, you need to be very good. The question is whether that is attainable.
 
Townie72 said:
I buy a lot of what you have to say.

As I tried to say, I can't think of a reason that RU shouldn't be mediocre at least in almost every sport. And just like all the other schools, they ought to be occasionally good at some sports like Northwestern.

But I'm not sure that's enough, at least for the New Jerseyans I grew up with. They will never be satisfied or interested in mediocre, especially in college sports. Which, as you intimate, are really second tier sports in their view.

To get their attention, you need to be very good. The question is whether that is attainable.
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the 3d paragraph sounds like a description of many su fans,especially the ones who never go to games
 
tipphill said:
the 3d paragraph sounds like a description of many su fans,especially the ones who never go to games
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Oh there's far too much negativity on the part of SU fans. Just read the board after an SU basketball loss and you'll see it in spades.

But, in my experience these Upstate chronic complainers and whiners are mere pikers when it comes to the enti tlement to excellence the Joisey people have. It's as if turning their noses up at anything less then the absolute best somehow helps them feel better about themselves.

I'm sure I can come up with better examples but the one that springs to mind was one of the local Townie kids got into West Point.

Princeton was a much smaller town in those days and everyone knew everybody else. In the Ivy Inn tavern on a Saturday this kid's rare accomplishment was a subject of discussion by a crowd most of whom barely had gotten through high school.

The locals acknowledged this was OK, but the consensus opinion was that Annapolis was a better school and if the kid had really been smart he'd have gone there.

I can remember shaking my head thinking There was no way to satisfy these people.

Anyone who thinks that Big Ten mediocrity is going to interest the Jerseyites in any meaningful way doesn't have a clue about the State. Especially in college football which most of them equate to AA baseball in comparison to the NFL.

Now if Rutgers was to achieve Ohio State or Michigan level dominance of college football, it might change things. But anything short of that will hardly register. And the probability of that occurring is very low given Rutgers long, long history of athletic underperforming even minimal expectations.

The average New Jerseyan will associate themselves with the pinnacles of excellence only. They might be the biggest Schubert ever in their personal lives but that doesn't mean they are willing to root for anything but the very best.
 
Briancuse said:
Yes, yes I did, it was the greatest moment in the history of college football, it sealed the Texas Bowl bid.
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Did you know they have a BLOCK R on their stadium? Simply, wow. That's all I can say.

 
If they don't win more than 3 or 4 games this year, the excitement of being in the Big 10 and the Ash Era will start to fade.

As far as the description before about the RAC goes, it's a dump. Yes, it can be a decent atmosphere for a game if the planets align, but it's still a cramped little dump.
 
Can you folks beleive that their largest donor has zero relation to the school? Didnt attend, didnt grow up in jersey, was never a fan. How did they pull that off? The guy just donated $5Mil to an $8 Mil practice facility and put SOMEONE ELSES NAME ON IT! Kudos to the RU admin for catching a donor like that.
 
orangeinjersey said:
Can you folks beleive that their largest donor has zero relation to the school? Didnt attend, didnt grow up in jersey, was never a fan. How did they pull that off? The guy just donated $5Mil to an $8 Mil practice facility and put SOMEONE ELSES NAME ON IT! Kudos to the RU admin for catching a donor like that.
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$8 mill for an outdoor practice facility? They got robbed.
 
Cuseman78 said:
$8 mill for an outdoor practice facility? They got robbed.
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My sources tell me that it is an enormous Costco tent with a big R on top - the kind youth teams use at soccer and lacrosse jamboree's to protect themselves from the sun. They were able to get such a great price because the Governor will be able to sweep any unused cash to reduce the state's unfunded pension liability.
 
orangeinjersey said:
Can you folks beleive that their largest donor has zero relation to the school? Didnt attend, didnt grow up in jersey, was never a fan. How did they pull that off? The guy just donated $5Mil to an $8 Mil practice facility and put SOMEONE ELSES NAME ON IT! Kudos to the RU admin for catching a donor like that.
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Actually, isn't that guy a pretty big donor? The same one they floated as recruiting coordinator or HS liason or something like that and also reported for an NCAA violation (tweeting.)
 
texascpa said:
Rutgers should have been a Yugo - "Small, ugly and breaks down a lot."
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That's funny, I had us pegged as some type of mid-size sedan, never saw the 'used' thing coming though.
 
b89199188fd208d46232f76b00a2a673.jpg
 
The delusion over at the Rutty board is reaching unprecedented levels. Apparently they now own NY because they got a commitment from Scott who SU offered at LB and a WR who didn't have a committable offer and that SU hasn't been in touch with months. No mention of how SU has the higher player rating on every site and how half the players we apparently lost out on to RU didn't even have an RU offer. There also appears to be a new poster with a heavy SU obsession who has started 3-4 threads about SU in the last week comparing the two schools even their practice facility to the Dome. If you need a good laugh head over there. Apparently going 2-10 and losing 78-0 didn't humble that bunch.
 
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