The Alliance 2.0, but for realsies this time…

[FRANKIEFAN]

It’s a shame this happens right as the ACC scheduling gets fixed but I think whatever comes of the ACC is going to be a very good fit for us.

There’s going to be plenty of room in a 12 team playoff for schools in that conference.

Just fingers crossed no annual Pitt or Lville matchup in football.

The Big Ten and SEC aren’t getting stronger they are diluting themselves. Now are they hurting their competition which of course in a way strengthens them sure but you can’t get stronger than what the SEC W currently is.

 

[Ozone!]

I wasn't being critical. I have no idea how this will all shake out. 2 leagues will get a boat load of money but the other schools aren't going to just give up and say D-2 here we come. Things in life very rarely work out as expected.

Yes, there are always unintended consequences!

 

[sutomcat]

Paterno was the AD right? Penn St ultimately made the right move for Penn St because ultimately the money would have pushed them to the big 10. All of this feels inevitable.

Their football is too good to be held out of the big money league even if sliding doors scenario happened

From a fiscal perspective, I agree. But from the perspective of on field results, Penn State won NCs in football in 1982 and 1986. Nothing since.

The B1G has really struggled to win NCs in football and basketball. It is not a great place to be if the goal is to win NCs.

I would submit that had Penn State had a competent AD who would have been willing to create an all sports league with shared revenue for all members (like all the other all sports leagues), Penn State would have positioned themselves into an ideal environment for winning NCs. Not unlike Clemson in the ACC in the last 10 years.

So if you are a chancellor or an AD, yes, Paterno made a good call. From the perspective of a PSU fan, who doesn’t share in the money earned, the decision to join the B1G might have ensured Penn State will never win another football NC. He definitely made it a lot harder for PSU fans to travel to away conference games.

And he didn’t do the basketball program any favors joining the B1G.

 

[Hoo's That]

Don’t disagree, but the ACC expansion was the beginning of the end of the current structure/system.

The first expansion of the ACC was triggered by the expansion of the SEC to 12 and the resulting huge $ucce$$ of its champion$hip game. The NCAA admitted they were caught flatfooted by it. When they created the championship game rule for a D-2 conference, they never, ever expected a D-1 conference to take advantage of it.

 

[tep624]

The first expansion of the ACC was triggered by the expansion of the SEC to 12 and the resulting huge $ucce$$ of its champion$hip game. The NCAA admitted they were caught flatfooted by it. When they created the championship game rule for a D-2 conference, they never, ever expected a D-1 conference to take advantage of it.

It may have been triggered by what the SEC did, but the SEC did that at the time without destroying another existing conference. South Carolina was an independent at the time and Arkansas, although part of the Big 12, wasn’t a death blow to that conference by any means.

What the ACC did to the Big East was a death blow to that conference for all intents and purposes. It is on par with what the SEC and B1G did to the Big 12 and Pac 12 recently. Virginia Tech and Miami were the premier football programs in the Big East at that time and irreplaceable. What the ACC did truly started the scorched earth conference raiding we’re seeing now, irrespective of what triggered the ACC to do it.

 

[Hoo's That]

Don't laugh...within 5 years I could see Relegation be a real thing
Premier League and B league

I think it will be permanent arrangement because the Premier league will not require the players to go to class while the B League will require class attendance and will refuse to play anyone who doesn't require it. That's why I've been saying all along that all these arrangements of super-conferences of X number or Y number or promotion/relegation schemes are a total waste of time.

 

[Hoo's That]

It may have been triggered by what the SEC did, but the SEC did that at the time without destroying another existing conference. South Carolina was an independent at the time and Arkansas, although part of the Big 12, wasn’t a death blow to that conference by any means.

What the ACC did to the Big East was a death blow to that conference for all intents and purposes. It is on par with what the SEC and B1G did to the Big 12 and Pac 12 recently. Virginia Tech and Miami were the premier football programs in the Big East at that time and irreplaceable. What the ACC did truly started the scorched earth conference raiding we’re seeing now, irrespective of what triggered the ACC to do it.

But SEC expansion did implode a conference, The Southwest Conference. Arkansas was the only non-Texas team in it and and was more than happy to leave when the SEC came calling. The Big XII was formed from the Big 8 when the 4 Texas teams joined it after the implosion. (It originally was supposed to be TCU joining it from the beginning, but the governor and the Speaker of the Texas House were both Baylor grads, so ... .)

 

[WoadBlue]

The first expansion of the ACC was triggered by the expansion of the SEC to 12 and the resulting huge $ucce$$ of its champion$hip game. The NCAA admitted they were caught flatfooted by it. When they created the championship game rule for a D-2 conference, they never, ever expected a D-1 conference to take advantage of it.

It's an old tale: well-meaning dolts think they are doing nothing more than handling one small problem and that there can be no logical growth from what they have done.

All ideas have consequences, and to not focus on all possible consequences is to invite blowback.

Hubris guarantees nemesis, even when hubris is truly rather innocent.

 

[WoadBlue]

It may have been triggered by what the SEC did, but the SEC did that at the time without destroying another existing conference. South Carolina was an independent at the time and Arkansas, although part of the Big 12, wasn’t a death blow to that conference by any means.

What the ACC did to the Big East was a death blow to that conference for all intents and purposes. It is on par with what the SEC and B1G did to the Big 12 and Pac 12 recently. Virginia Tech and Miami were the premier football programs in the Big East at that time and irreplaceable. What the ACC did truly started the scorched earth conference raiding we’re seeing now, irrespective of what triggered the ACC to do it.

The Big East is not dead. It is alive and well doing what it was founded to do and be: basketball. The BE was created exclusively for basketball. There was no intent to ever do anything else. The BE was forced to create a football league because when PSU joined the BT, BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all realized that their football teams required something more than just BE basketball. The BE, as the non-football Catholic schools saw it, was blackmailed into creating a football division.

Nobody with a brain thought BE football was ever stable. First, for it to get any TV deal required Miami, and Miami had made it clear to everyone that it wanted to be in the ACC with FSU. Second, both VT and WVU, which has the largest average attendances of the 8 BE football embers, had both wanted very badly to be in the ACC since it was founded. The BE also made certain that BE football was permanently unstable by having members that not allowed in BE basketball.

 

[elimunelson]

From a fiscal perspective, I agree. But from the perspective of on field results, Penn State won NCs in football in 1982 and 1986. Nothing since.

The B1G has really struggled to win NCs in football and basketball. It is not a great place to be if the goal is to win NCs.

I would submit that had Penn State had a competent AD who would have been willing to create an all sports league with shared revenue for all members (like all the other all sports leagues), Penn State would have positioned themselves into an ideal environment for winning NCs. Not unlike Clemson in the ACC in the last 10 years.

So if you are a chancellor or an AD, yes, Paterno made a good call. From the perspective of a PSU fan, who doesn’t share in the money earned, the decision to join the B1G might have ensured Penn State will never win another football NC. He definitely made it a lot harder for PSU fans to travel to away conference games.

And he didn’t do the basketball program any favors joining the B1G.

Tom, everything you say is 100% accurate and I agree but we've learned that everything revolves around money. I would say that Penn St "won" in 94 too. If that was us, we'd be saying that was another NC. Undefeated coming out of the Big 10 and not claiming a portion of that NC was preposterous.

Ultimately no decision matters other than money. Otherwise, we'd have regional conferences right now and some competent manner to split up the pie in a more equitable/NFL way.

I don't begrudge Penn St at all for their decisions in hindsight. It goes to my ultimate point that congress should dictate college sports if they are going to provide college sports with a tax exempt status. That would solve all of our problems

 

[All4SU]

I think it will be permanent arrangement because the Premier league will not require the players to go to class while the B League will require class attendance and will refuse to play anyone who doesn't require it. That's why I've been saying all along that all these arrangements of super-conferences of X number or Y number or promotion/relegation schemes are a total waste of time.

Yup, I’m thinking the same thing. And if players are no longer students, I want Syracuse to have no part of it. If they do, I’ll have no part of it.

 

[TexanMark]

I think it will be permanent arrangement because the Premier league will not require the players to go to class while the B League will require class attendance and will refuse to play anyone who doesn't require it. That's why I've been saying all along that all these arrangements of super-conferences of X number or Y number or promotion/relegation schemes are a total waste of time.

You might be right...BTW I'll be okay with being in a league that still expects players representing Syracuse actually strive to get a degree.

 

[blust2i3d4]

It may have been triggered by what the SEC did, but the SEC did that at the time without destroying another existing conference. South Carolina was an independent at the time and Arkansas, although part of the Big 12, wasn’t a death blow to that conference by any means.

What the ACC did to the Big East was a death blow to that conference for all intents and purposes. It is on par with what the SEC and B1G did to the Big 12 and Pac 12 recently. Virginia Tech and Miami were the premier football programs in the Big East at that time and irreplaceable. What the ACC did truly started the scorched earth conference raiding we’re seeing now, irrespective of what triggered the ACC to do it.

When BCS just started in 1998, Big East is the most powerful conference in its first years, better than SEC, B1G and ACC. ACC had a good strategy to break up Big East since Big East was the best football conference and No. 2 basketball next to ACC in early 2000's. So things can change. Not just change but change dramatically. Unless B1G and SEC can break up with NCAA, who can say what will happen in 2050.

 

[tep624]

But SEC expansion did implode a conference, The Southwest Conference. Arkansas was the only non-Texas team in it and and was more than happy to leave when the SEC came calling. The Big XII was formed from the Big 8 when the 4 Texas teams joined it after the implosion. (It originally was supposed to be TCU joining it from the beginning, but the governor and the Speaker of the Texas House were both Baylor grads, so ... .)

I forgot about the SW conference - good point. I guess you could say Rice/SMU/TCU/Houston were the first casualties of this when they were left without a conference. I think the rest of the SWC merging with the Big 8 put them in an even better position after the SEC moves.

 

[tep624]

The Big East is not dead. It is alive and well doing what it was founded to do and be: basketball. The BE was created exclusively for basketball. There was no intent to ever do anything else. The BE was forced to create a football league because when PSU joined the BT, BC, Pitt, and Syracuse all realized that their football teams required something more than just BE basketball. The BE, as the non-football Catholic schools saw it, was blackmailed into creating a football division.

Nobody with a brain thought BE football was ever stable. First, for it to get any TV deal required Miami, and Miami had made it clear to everyone that it wanted to be in the ACC with FSU. Second, both VT and WVU, which has the largest average attendances of the 8 BE football embers, had both wanted very badly to be in the ACC since it was founded. The BE also made certain that BE football was permanently unstable by having members that not allowed in BE basketball.

That's one way to look at it.

 

[TexanMark]

When BCS just started in 1998, Big East is the most powerful conference in its first years, better than SEC, B1G and ACC. ACC had a good strategy to break up Big East since Big East was the best football conference and No. 2 basketball next to ACC in early 2000's. So things can change. Not just change but change dramatically. Unless B1G and SEC can break up with NCAA, who can say what will happen in 2050.

They were not the best league in 1998...however, things can change. If the GOR manages to work the ACC might be in a better spot in 10 years.

As for 2050? We might be playing Flag Football in stadiums by then.

 

[sutomcat]

Tom, everything you say is 100% accurate and I agree but we've learned that everything revolves around money. I would say that Penn St "won" in 94 too. If that was us, we'd be saying that was another NC. Undefeated coming out of the Big 10 and not claiming a portion of that NC was preposterous.

Ultimately no decision matters other than money. Otherwise, we'd have regional conferences right now and some competent manner to split up the pie in a more equitable/NFL way.

I don't begrudge Penn St at all for their decisions in hindsight. It goes to my ultimate point that congress should dictate college sports if they are going to provide college sports with a tax exempt status. That would solve all of our problems

Not sure congress is going to do a good job dictating college sports. They seem to struggle to do anything right.

I think at one point, Jake Crouthamel noted that in his opinion, that it really didn’t matter if Penn State was admitted to the Big East (and would have been part of the Big East conference for football).

It was inevitable that they were going to join the B1G at some point. They just fundamentally different than any other school in the Northeast. They are a huge land grant university with a large passionate fan base with nothing to do but root for Penn State football.

I think Jake was right on this.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't know what everyone is so worked up over, we're still all going to die some day.

Also Brian Kelly killed a kid.

 

[Guinness]

If the GOR manages to work the ACC might be in a better spot in 10 years.

The ACC has plenty of brands. The problem is FSU, Miami and VT have all underperformed. If they can get it going like they did in the past by the time the GoR ends the pendulum could swing in favor of the ACC again.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Gor? What is it good for?

 

[SU68]

Gor? What is it good for?

It's putting food on our table.

 

[NineOneSeven]

College “student” athletes flying 2k miles on a Tuesday to play a 2-3 hour game. Nice.

 

[kcsu]

Based on what i have read it looks like there is a decent chance that the ACC and the remaining Pac teams will form an agreement. It is also possible that the ACC could invite some to join as full-time members. I'm hopeful that his comes to fruition as i believe it is the best fit for the ACC and SU.

 

[CousCuse]

Based on what i have read it looks like there is a decent chance that the ACC and the remaining Pac teams will form an agreement. It is also possible that the ACC could invite some to join as full-time members. I'm hopeful that his comes to fruition as i believe it is the best fit for the ACC and SU.

The 4 corners PAC teams, AU, ASU, CU and Utah want to go into the B12. The teams left, OU, UW, Stanford and Cal all want to go to the B1G. Why would the ACC want to throw them a lifeline and have this huge travel problem to deal with? If the 4 teams that ESPN wants to be in the SEC do go, the ACC should get teams in the east to take their place, WVU and Cincy would want that, Temple, UCONN, UMASS and USF would join. Let's get back to reality. @ eight team divisions north and south with familiar rivalries. If some of those teams aren't that strong right now, fine, get some wins playing a 10 game conference schedule.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The Alliance 2 Electric Bugaloo