The alliance scheduling agreement already looks dead in football

[baggerbob]

ESPN wanted to consolidate the inventory that they already owned. So those conferences going away didn't hurt. If the ACC dies then ESPN loses a ton of inventory. If anything they should want to overpay to prevent that from happening.

They already have the content cheap through 2036, why would they pay more?
There is nothing the ACC can do now.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

They already have the content cheap through 2036, why would they pay more?
There is nothing the ACC can do now.

ESPN can underpay the ACC but pay more than they are currently to keep the ACC schools happy. That investment would payoff when the next contract negation comes up in 2034. If there is too big a gap between B1G $ and ACC $, ESPN will lose most of the ACC in 2034. The long term play for ESPN should be to keep the ACC happy enough to not die.

 

[Chris02M]

ESPN can underpay the ACC but pay more than they are currently to keep the ACC schools happy. That investment would payoff when the next contract negation comes up in 2034. If there is too big a gap between B1G $ and ACC $, ESPN will lose most of the ACC in 2034. The long term play for ESPN should be to keep the ACC happy enough to not die.

pay enough to keep us above the pac 12

 

[kcsu]

ESPN is going to get the value it can out of its current deal.
Then suck the value it wants out of the ACC if the ACC tries to actually get more money than ESPN wants to pay.

It’s what they did to the Big XII.
They didn’t want to pay 400 million a year for the Big XIi so pay the SEC an extra 100+ and take the value out of the conference.

I know you get business.

ESPN will do the same thing to the ACC.

No they wont.

 

[Alsacs]

No they wont.

Dude if you are going to respond don’t give 3 word answers.

I won’t bother with responses like this again.

Go ahead and disagree but give a real answer.

That is if you get this stuff and not just wanting to express the pro-SU mindset.

ESPN isn’t going to protect the ACC just to protect it. The ACC isn’t happy the ACC was against CFB expansion.

 

[kcsu]

Dude if you are going to respond don’t give 3 word answers.

I won’t bother with responses like this again.

Go ahead and disagree but give a real answer.

That is if you get this stuff and not just wanting to express the pro-SU mindset.

ESPN isn’t going to protect the ACC just to protect it. The ACC isn’t happy the ACC was against CFB expansion.

Dude, straighten your baseball cap, put down the claw and read my first post.

 

[longtimefan]

Why would the Big Ten lower than annual payouts to add Pittsburgh, Syracuse?
Big Ten would want North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and then maybe Clemson, Florida State or Georgia Tech.

I don’t know who the 4th would be but UNC/UVA/Duke are a package.

I don't buy that Duke would be part of this package.

As we all know, this is all about football, and Duke hasn't been relevant in football for 80 years, the exception being a couple of years in the late 80's when Spurrier was there.

Duke hoops? No more K, and Scheyer may turn out to be more like Bill Foster than Krzyzewski.

UNC would already cover the State of NC, so Duke is redundant.

Are UNC and Duke attached at the hip? It may seem that way right now. But will it when the checks with many zeros start getting cut?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't buy that Duke would be part of this package.

As we all know, this is all about football, and Duke hasn't been relevant in football for 80 years, the exception being a couple of years in the late 80's when Spurrier was there.

Duke hoops? No more K, and Scheyer may turn out to be more like Bill Foster than Krzyzewski.

UNC would already cover the State of NC, so Duke is redundant.

Are UNC and Duke attached at the hip? It may seem that way right now. But will it when the checks with many zeros start getting cut?

Both the B1G and SEC want UNC, so UNC will call the shots. If the B1G wants to get south of PA then they will accept. Plus you need bad teams to prop up your top teams. Plus you get Duke vs UNC in BBall. Plus you get Duke Lax. Plus you add another AAU school.

IMO 20 years from now UNC, Duke, and UVA will be in the B1G. VA Tech and NC State will be in the SEC. The big question is who gets FSU, Clemson, and GA Tech first? If the SEC could get those schools then the B1G gets shut out of the talent rich South. Even if they added Miami it wouldn't be a threat to the SEC.

 

[WoadBlue]

I don't buy that Duke would be part of this package.

As we all know, this is all about football, and Duke hasn't been relevant in football for 80 years, the exception being a couple of years in the late 80's when Spurrier was there.

Duke hoops? No more K, and Scheyer may turn out to be more like Bill Foster than Krzyzewski.

UNC would already cover the State of NC, so Duke is redundant.

Are UNC and Duke attached at the hip? It may seem that way right now. But will it when the checks with many zeros start getting cut?

The best thing for Dook is also the best thing for Syracuse: if indeed we have another split in D1 (I think that much more likely now than I did 2 years ago), what is the top tier of basketball will be cut by at least 50%, perhaps by 2/3rds. That will make the value of all traditional basketball powers that have actual fan bases go up.

What Dook has going for it in that scenario that Cuse does not is that Dook is half of the best, most important rivalry in college basketball. That rivalry plus the state of NC mean that even the SEC would take Dook to get UNC (and UVA), should the SEC to expand to at least 20.

As I've said here before, I no longer discount the long time talk among sets of SEC and BT fans that their leagues are willing to expand to at least 24 members each in order to grab a dual monopoly. Sankey may be a worse money-whore than Slive, and Sankey seems exactly like standard BT leadership in desire to cut others from being able to compete. And the BT is still desperate to (A) get paid the moist money, and (B) upgrade its football to roughly comparable, top top bottom, with SEC football.

The BT always has been like John D. Rockefeller, and the SEC has been evolving over the previous quarter of a century into John D. Rockefeller's identical twin.

 

[WoadBlue]

I am saying the ACC needs to stop aligning with the Big Ten which doesn’t care about the ACC.

The SEC leaves the ACC alone. The Big Ten wants to take value ffom it.

Align with ESPN and the SEC. Know where your bread is buttered.

ESPN knows what it is doing.
The ACC literally gets nothing out of this alliance.
It’s stupid.

No one can trust the BT. The BT is always ready to do whatever dirty trick is needed for the BT to get more money seem better at a sport.

 

[WoadBlue]

Both the B1G and SEC want UNC, so UNC will call the shots. If the B1G wants to get south of PA then they will accept. Plus you need bad teams to prop up your top teams. Plus you get Duke vs UNC in BBall. Plus you get Duke Lax. Plus you add another AAU school.

IMO 20 years from now UNC, Duke, and UVA will be in the B1G. VA Tech and NC State will be in the SEC. The big question is who gets FSU, Clemson, and GA Tech first? If the SEC could get those schools then the B1G gets shut out of the talent rich South. Even if they added Miami it wouldn't be a threat to the SEC.

Of what value to the BT is having UVA and UNC if the SEC has VT and NCSU?

Next to none.

The BT does not need better basketball or more hoops fans. The BT does not need to own lacrosse. The BT desperately wants to be the equal of the SEC in football, and it can't get remotely close to that by adding 2 states in the upper South it will share with the SEC.

The BT has only two paths toward getting its football up to SEC level: 1) add a minimum of 8 ACC schools in the South to 'own' VA and NC and have Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami, or 2) add at least 8 Pac schools to 'own' CA and the West Coast.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Of what value to the BT is having UVA and UNC if the SEC has VT and NCSU?

Next to none.

The BT does not need better basketball or more hoops fans. The BT does not need to own lacrosse. The BT desperately wants to be the equal of the SEC in football, and it can't get remotely close to that by adding 2 states in the upper South it will share with the SEC.

The BT has only two paths toward getting its football up to SEC level: 1) add a minimum of 8 ACC schools in the South to 'own' VA and NC and have Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami, or 2) add at least 8 Pac schools to 'own' CA and the West Coast.

UNC and UVA are better brands by far, which brings money. They are adding eyeballs in 2 new states. They are adding quality inventory. They are adding like minded AAU schools. They are adding new recruiting grounds. They are adding a gateway to GA Tech, Clemson, FSU and Miami which are the football brands that will help the B1G vs the SEC. They are killing off the ACC so there is less competition for TV $. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[WoadBlue]

UNC and UVA are better brands by far, which brings money. They are adding eyeballs in 2 new states. They are adding quality inventory. They are adding like minded AAU schools. They are adding new recruiting grounds. They are adding a gateway to GA Tech, Clemson, FSU and Miami which are the football brands that will help the B1G vs the SEC. They are killing off the ACC so there is less competition for TV $. Pretty simple stuff.

So you think the BT will want to add UVA and UNC, without adding Dook and VT (or NCSU), allowing the SEC to add VT and NCSU, all to then have a gateway to maybe add Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami.

If the BT wants to have the Deep South ACC schools for football recruiting, then why would it not offer that quartet plus UVA, VT, UNC, and Dook? Why allow the SEC to share VA and NC with the BT?

GA produces more top football recruits than VA and NC combined, and FL produces more than GA. BUT VA and NC each produce more football talent than almost all BT states except OH. BT football depth of quality to match the SEC requires much more than sharing VA and NC with the SEC. It requires the BT taking over the Southern schools in the ACC (minus Wake and possibly NCSU) - or else taking over the Pac.

 

[WoadBlue]

UNC and UVA are better brands by far, which brings money. They are adding eyeballs in 2 new states. They are adding quality inventory. They are adding like minded AAU schools. They are adding new recruiting grounds. They are adding a gateway to GA Tech, Clemson, FSU and Miami which are the football brands that will help the B1G vs the SEC. They are killing off the ACC so there is less competition for TV $. Pretty simple stuff.

From the SEC angle - why do you think the SEC would allow the BT to have UVA and UNC? The SEC does not want the BT in the South, period. To keep the BT out, the SEC almost certainly offer to take 8 ACC teams: UVA, VT, UNC, Dook, Clemson, and FSU for certain, Miami almost for certain. The 8th would be either GT or NCSU.

ESPN may well have decided to squeeze the ACC to death to allow the SEC to absorb what it wants. The Mouse is a long way from honest, family entertainment and handshake, honorable business. The Mouse is now a ruthless Globalist whore.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

So you think the BT will want to add UVA and UNC, without adding Dook and VT (or NCSU), allowing the SEC to add VT and NCSU, all to then have a gateway to maybe add Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami.

If the BT wants to have the Deep South ACC schools for football recruiting, then why would it not offer that quartet plus UVA, VT, UNC, and Dook? Why allow the SEC to share VA and NC with the BT?

GA produces more top football recruits than VA and NC combined, and FL produces more than GA. BUT VA and NC each produce more football talent than almost all BT states except OH. BT football depth of quality to match the SEC requires much more than sharing VA and NC with the SEC. It requires the BT taking over the Southern schools in the ACC (minus Wake and possibly NCSU) - or else taking over the Pac.

For someone who posts on all these message boards about expansion you would think that you would pick up something. The B1G will NEVER add VA Tech or NC State. So either the B1G adds the better brands in UNC and UVA or nothing at all. The SEC is getting into VA and NC either way.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

From the SEC angle - why do you think the SEC would allow the BT to have UVA and UNC? The SEC does not want the BT in the South, period. To keep the BT out, the SEC almost certainly offer to take 8 ACC teams: UVA, VT, UNC, Dook, Clemson, and FSU for certain, Miami almost for certain. The 8th would be either GT or NCSU.

ESPN may well have decided to squeeze the ACC to death to allow the SEC to absorb what it wants. The Mouse is a long way from honest, family entertainment and handshake, honorable business. The Mouse is now a ruthless Globalist whore.

Allow? They have no choice in the matter. UNC rather be in the B1G than the SEC. Sure the SEC wants UNC but they can't force them to join. You are going off the deep end.

There is zero reason for the SEC to add all those schools. There is no way they add Miami. Florida doesn't want FSU they aren't allowing 2 additional FLA schools. If they have UNC and UVA there is no reason to add VA Tech or NC State. Why have 2 schools in those states? The B1G isn't taking either so there is no risk.

From the SEC's angle they should go after FSU, Clemson, and GA Tech before the B1G can. That will keep the B1G out of the real South. There is where the real battle will be. NC and VA will be split.

 

[orangecuse]

The only way shake ND and force them to move is to get the SEC onboard with a conference affiliation requirement.

The Big Ten won’t help the ACC with that. I mean if the Big Ten caree about the ACC they could have proposed that but they want Notre Dame so why help the ACC.

It’s chit like this people just ignore.
Syracuse won’t be a midmajor but we are going to be in P5 leftovers.

Which is fine. It won’t be poor its just a tier down from SEC and B1G.

As difficult as this may be to accept, it's likely the destined plight. Yes, there is an amazing history behind SU football, but it really is in the distant past. Call it a pessimistic outlook, but I don't see where small privates such as the like of SU, etc. really can compete moving forward with these huge state flagship type schools. As it stands now, one can reasonably argue that SU is a modern day impostor on the P5 level.

 

[WoadBlue]

Allow? They have no choice in the matter. UNC rather be in the B1G than the SEC. Sure the SEC wants UNC but they can't force them to join. You are going off the deep end.

There is zero reason for the SEC to add all those schools. There is no way they add Miami. Florida doesn't want FSU they aren't allowing 2 additional FLA schools. If they have UNC and UVA there is no reason to add VA Tech or NC State. Why have 2 schools in those states? The B1G isn't taking either so there is no risk.

From the SEC's angle they should go after FSU, Clemson, and GA Tech before the B1G can. That will keep the B1G out of the real South. There is where the real battle will be. NC and VA will be split.

What makes you certain UNC wants to be inn the BT over the SEC? What makes you think UNC is even going to leave NCSU behind without a major fight?

If you do not understand why, for example, the SEC moved Hell and earth to make certain it no longer shared TX, then there's not much I can help you see. But I'll state it again: a state that is truly valuable for CFB because it has a large number of fans of CFB and produces a large amount of talent is most valuable when its 2 (or perhaps 3) valuable schools are in the same conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

What makes you certain UNC wants to be inn the BT over the SEC? What makes you think UNC is even going to leave NCSU behind without a major fight?

If you do not understand why, for example, the SEC moved Hell and earth to make certain it no longer shared TX, then there's not much I can help you see. But I'll state it again: a state that is truly valuable for CFB because it has a large number of fans of CFB and produces a large amount of talent is most valuable when its 2 (or perhaps 3) valuable schools are in the same conference.

Are you really comparing NC to TX? You need to stop as you are getting into Couscous territory.

You think UNC wants to associate with the SEC schools over the B1G schools? Do you know anything about UNC?

If UNC went to the B1G and NC State to the SEC both have a home. Why would there be a fight? Also THEY HAVE NO REAL CHOICE! You are telling me UNC will allow a huge gap between the B1G/SEC which negatively impacts the BBall program, just so they can stay in the ACC with NC State?

UNC will stay in the ACC for as long as possible. So at least until 2036 and IMO at most will be 2041. Ten years from now you need to get used to being in the B1G.

 

[WoadBlue]

Are you really comparing NC to TX? You need to stop as you are getting into Couscous territory.

You think UNC wants to associate with the SEC schools over the B1G schools? Do you know anything about UNC?

If UNC went to the B1G and NC State to the SEC both have a home. Why would there be a fight? Also THEY HAVE NO REAL CHOICE! You are telling me UNC will allow a huge gap between the B1G/SEC which negatively impacts the BBall program, just so they can stay in the ACC with NC State?

UNC will stay in the ACC for as long as possible. So at least until 2036 and IMO at most will be 2041. Ten years from now you need to get used to being in the B1G.

I am a UNC grad. And clearly you understand very little about what I am trying to tell you and others. A basketball-first fan position makes it very hard for people to fully grasp what is going on and why, and being a northeasterner also hurts, because the last time that the region as a region truly mattered to Major College football was right after WW2.

Once again I'll try to help you understand key dynamics that matter to UNC. About a decade ago, the Ram's Club did a survey of what its members thought of other Major Conferences, including in terms of possible UNC membership. Among those who identified as football-first fans, it ran about 9-1 for the SEC over the BT.

That was before UNC people saw how duplicitous the BT is with its signed secrecy contract with Maryland and its advice for Maryland to hire people to go online as Maryland fans blaming the ACC for Maryland's many failures. That alone changed a number of UNC admin and faculty views about BT sports.

Even at UNC, football is simply bigger and brings in more money. The UNC football boosters are not going to want to be in the BT, ever. And because they understand the endless appeal of SEC football, they are never going to rest while NCSU is in the SEC and they are not. Quite simply, if NCSU is SEC, its football will overlap UNC/BT football rather quickly.

UNC's athletics department can withstand ESPN grossly underpaying the ACC for another decade, but neither Clemson nor FSU will be able to without losing fairly significant ground. GT will fall even farther behind UGA. ACC football must have both Clemson and FSU (the only SEC-sized and SEC-style football fan bases we have) or else its loses much of its appeal to national TV viewers.

And the SEC, with ESPN backing, will offer both in order to keep the BT out of the South.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I am a UNC grad. And clearly you understand very little about what I am trying to tell you and others. A basketball-first fan position makes it very hard for people to fully grasp what is going on and why, and being a northeasterner also hurts, because the last time that the region as a region truly mattered to Major College football was right after WW2.

Once again I'll try to help you understand key dynamics that matter to UNC. About a decade ago, the Ram's Club did a survey of what its members thought of other Major Conferences, including in terms of possible UNC membership. Among those who identified as football-first fans, it ran about 9-1 for the SEC over the BT.

That was before UNC people saw how duplicitous the BT is with its signed secrecy contract with Maryland and its advice for Maryland to hire people to go online as Maryland fans blaming the ACC for Maryland's many failures. That alone changed a number of UNC admin and faculty views about BT sports.

Even at UNC, football is simply bigger and brings in more money. The UNC football boosters are not going to want to be in the BT, ever. And because they understand the endless appeal of SEC football, they are never going to rest while NCSU is in the SEC and they are not. Quite simply, if NCSU is SEC, its football will overlap UNC/BT football rather quickly.

UNC's athletics department can withstand ESPN grossly underpaying the ACC for another decade, but neither Clemson nor FSU will be able to without losing fairly significant ground. GT will fall even farther behind UGA. ACC football must have both Clemson and FSU (the only SEC-sized and SEC-style football fan bases we have) or else its loses much of its appeal to national TV viewers.

And the SEC, with ESPN backing, will offer both in order to keep the BT out of the South.

UNC or NC State would get devoured in the SEC. Neither can compete. UNC could be decent in the B1G. And an expanded B1G is going to have plenty of Southern schools. UNC is the bigger brand and always will be. NC State isn't going to pass UNC if one is in the B1G and the other in the SEC. Wake me up when South Carolina passes Clemson.

A decade ago (your "poll") the landscape was a lot different (B1G no longer a Midwestern league) and fans DO NOT make these decisions. Snobby UNC is not going to pick the SEC over the B1G, where they can be part of research with the B1G football schools, U of Chicago, and Johns Hopkins. Especially if the B1G absorbs the P12.

Yes, the SEC will want to keep the B1G out of the South. But that isn't up to the SEC as much as the individual schools. If the B1G strikes first and takes FSU, Clemson, GA Tech then the SEC will have failed. That will be the key to the next round. Who wins FSU, Clemson, GA Tech?

 

[Alsacs]

UNC or NC State would get devoured in the SEC. Neither can compete. UNC could be decent in the B1G. And an expanded B1G is going to have plenty of Southern schools. UNC is the bigger brand and always will be. NC State isn't going to pass UNC if one is in the B1G and the other in the SEC. Wake me up when South Carolina passes Clemson.

A decade ago (your "poll") the landscape was a lot different (B1G no longer a Midwestern league) and fans DO NOT make these decisions. Snobby UNC is not going to pick the SEC over the B1G, where they can be part of research with the B1G football schools, U of Chicago, and Johns Hopkins. Especially if the B1G absorbs the P12.

Yes, the SEC will want to keep the B1G out of the South. But that isn't up to the SEC as much as the individual schools. If the B1G strikes first and takes FSU, Clemson, GA Tech then the SEC will have failed. That will be the key to the next round. Who wins FSU, Clemson, GA Tech?

It’s not just SEC vs B1G.
It’s Fox vs. ESPN.

ESPN is going to get what it wants.
I am just trying to explain.
The ACC basically created a time bomb if they pissed ESPN off. And yes it I guarantee the ACC has pissed ESPN off by how it has voted and who it has aligned with over the company that owns it.
The ACC needed to align with ESPN and done everything it could to cyber rattle Notre Dame. They didn’t and now its a timebomb.

I see it for what it is. We aren’t going to get 24 team conferences.
ESPN will squeeze what it wants and the SEC will do it.

Big Ten may add scraps or whatever is leftover will be on the market and basically become another Big XII from tbe ACC schools.

 

[Hoo's That]

Why would the Big Ten lower than annual payouts to add Pittsburgh, Syracuse?
Big Ten would want North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, and then maybe Clemson, Florida State or Georgia Tech.

I don’t know who the 4th would be but UNC/UVA/Duke are a package.

Duke is not part of a package. When the ACC implosion seemed imminent, all the talk was just UNC and UVa moving as a pair. No one ever mentioned Duke. WoadBlue can correct me if I'm wrong. Duke is basketball and lacrosse. K has retired and Danowski will retire in a couple of years. There will be fall-offs. How many NWerns does the B1G want/need? How many Vandys does the SEC want/need?

 

[TheCusian]

It’s not just SEC vs B1G.
It’s Fox vs. ESPN.

ESPN is going to get what it wants.
I am just trying to explain.
The ACC basically created a time bomb if they pissed ESPN off. And yes it I guarantee the ACC has pissed ESPN off by how it has voted and who it has aligned with over the company that owns it.
The ACC needed to align with ESPN and done everything it could to cyber rattle Notre Dame. They didn’t and now its a timebomb.

I see it for what it is. We aren’t going to get 24 team conferences.
ESPN will squeeze what it wants and the SEC will do it.

Big Ten may add scraps or whatever is leftover will be on the market and basically become another Big XII from tbe ACC schools.

Your take is that ESPN is so pissy about the playoffs that they'll let the ACC die?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It’s not just SEC vs B1G.
It’s Fox vs. ESPN.

ESPN is going to get what it wants.
I am just trying to explain.
The ACC basically created a time bomb if they pissed ESPN off. And yes it I guarantee the ACC has pissed ESPN off by how it has voted and who it has aligned with over the company that owns it.
The ACC needed to align with ESPN and done everything it could to cyber rattle Notre Dame. They didn’t and now its a timebomb.

I see it for what it is. We aren’t going to get 24 team conferences.
ESPN will squeeze what it wants and the SEC will do it.

Big Ten may add scraps or whatever is leftover will be on the market and basically become another Big XII from tbe ACC schools.

1. It isn't up to ESPN. They can't force a school into the SEC. They own the conference not the schools. They have no leverage.

2. Why can't FOX get what it wants? Are they not a player here? Why would they just let ESPN get away with it? FOX in theory can make ESPN college sports outside of football totally irrelevant.

3. The ACC is a time bomb whether they voted with ESPN or not. The money isn't there to keep the conference in tact past 2040.