The Big is really weak

[obliterata]

The Michigan State AD is the NCAA Committee Chairman, I expect them to get a bid. And yes, I know he cannot and won't be in the room when they're discussing MSU.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The Michigan State AD is the NCAA Committee Chairman, I expect them to get a bid. And yes, I know he cannot and won't be in the room when they're discussing MSU.

Ugh. Didn't know that.

 

[MSOrange]

I disagree. 2017 BIG 10 is very similar to the 2016 PAC 12.

2016 PAC-12. The committee loved them even though they only had 1 really good team. The depth of teams they had in the top 50 or right around 50 generated a whole bunch of quality wins for the teams, and made bad losses very tough. It's the same situation in the Big 10 this year.

The Big 10 lacks star power, but it is really deep from an RPI perspective. I would not be surprised if Iowa/Illinois won two quality games in the B10 tournament (against tourney teams or valid bubble team) and got in the tournament. We definetely need the current 7 teams that may be in to take care of business and hold off Indiana, Iowa and Illinois.

Ohio St winning games is fine... they are a tier below the other 3.

Does this mean the BIG is any good. Nope, but neither was the 2016 PAC.

Totally agree. At least in Iowa's case, they have a 5-7 record against top 50. Their non-conference was a disaster except for beating Iowa State but I wouldn't minimize winning at Maryland and Wisconsin. If they beat Indiana in the conference tournament and then beat Maryland, I'd be more surprised if they didn't make it than if they did. Getting totally jobbed by the refs at Minnesota could loom large for them.

 

[kcsu]

Says the guy who thinks Chubaka will ball out someday. Have you seen Purdue play, incidentally? You know what their strengths and our weaknesses are, yes?

Chewy will be a big no pun intended contributor once he is able to see. Ill stand by my prediction. Im not impressed with any of the bigs this year. Sure there are a few decent teams but not one that really stands out.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If they still put an emphasis on the last 10 games, Cal wouldn't have a chance.

 

[sutomcat]

Ohio State has the same record as Indiana. So B1G has 7 locked-in and 4 bubble teams including Indiana, Ohio State, Iowa and Illinois. Only three teams (Rutgers, Nebraska and Penn State) needs to win the conference tournament to get NCAA tournament bid.

Ohio State finished 7-11 in a mediocre conference (Northwestern had a winning record and even Rutgers won 3 games). The Buckeyes OOC play was undistinguished, other than a loss to something called Florida Atlantic.

Thinking they are comparable to Indiana because they both finished with 17-14 records, 7-11 in league play is deeply flawed because the Hoosiers played a tough OOC schedule and beat two top 5 teams (Kansas and UNC).

In no world is Ohio State under consideration for an at large berth. Unless you are talking about the NIT, or that other scrub tournament that selects after the NIT.

 

[MSOrange]

Ohio State finished 7-11 in a mediocre conference. Their OOC play was undistinguished, other than a loss to something called Florida Atlantic.

Thinking they are comparable to Indiana because they both finished with 17-14 records, 7-11 in league play is deeply flawed because the Hoosiers played a tough OOC schedule and beat two top 5 teams (Kansas and UNC).

In no world is Ohio State under consideration for an at large berth. Unless you are talking about the NIT, or that other scrub tournament that selects after the NIT.

I agree. Iowa, Indiana and Illinois have some work to do but it's realistic. Ohio State needs to win the conference tournament. They beat Providence, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan State - all at home. I don't think that's strong enough when you look at a 17-14 record and 7-11 conference record.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Chewy will be a big no pun intended contributor once he is able to see. Ill stand by my prediction. Im not impressed with any of the bigs this year. Sure there are a few decent teams but not one that really stands out.

What makes you think that, considering he was terrible when 100% healthy prior to the eye injury? You can't teach 7'2", but you also can't teach aggressiveness or strength. He played like a gentle giant.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Iowa is possibly better than some of the other bubble teams.

How is Michigan State a lock? 10-8 in the B1G is not impressive. They don't have as good of wins as us, they only have 2 road wins, they have a bad loss at home to Northeastern. Yes, we do have the other bad losses to UConn and St John's, but I think our more impressive conference resume is far and away better than MSU's. I don't get why they are considered such a lock and we're barely considered in. I guess just playing a tougher schedule and not winning the games is very important.

 

[Alsacs]

I disagree. 2017 BIG 10 is very similar to the 2016 PAC 12.

2016 PAC-12. The committee loved them even though they only had 1 really good team. The depth of teams they had in the top 50 or right around 50 generated a whole bunch of quality wins for the teams, and made bad losses very tough. It's the same situation in the Big 10 this year.

The Big 10 lacks star power, but it is really deep from an RPI perspective. I would not be surprised if Iowa/Illinois won two quality games in the B10 tournament (against tourney teams or valid bubble team) and got in the tournament. We definetely need the current 7 teams that may be in to take care of business and hold off Indiana, Iowa and Illinois.

Ohio St winning games is fine... they are a tier below the other 3.

Does this mean the BIG is any good. Nope, but neither was the 2016 PAC.

2016 PAC-12 was stronger.
Oregon was a 1 seed.
Utah was a 3 seed.
Cal was a 4 seed.
Arizona was a 6 seed.

USC and Oregon State are like B1G teams this year.

Right now Purdue is a 4 seed and Wisconsin has been leaking a lot of oil and is probably a 6/7 seed right now.

Minnesota/Maryland/Michigan/ Michigan State are 7-9 seeds.

The Big Ten right now is like the 2001 Big East.
BC was given a 3 seed that year as BE champ and all BE teams weren't given respect seeding wise.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Iowa is possibly better than some of the other bubble teams.

How is Michigan State a lock? 10-8 in the B1G is not impressive. They don't have as good of wins as us, they only have 2 road wins, they have a bad loss at home to Northeastern. Yes, we do have the other bad losses to UConn and St John's, but I think our more impressive conference resume is far and away better than MSU's. I don't get why they are considered such a lock and we're barely considered in. I guess just playing a tougher schedule and not winning the games is very important.

Izzo plays Duke every year, get's blasted by them(He's never beat K) and builds up his RPI. It's comical at this point. Better coach than JB though. Oh yeah their AD runs then committee.

 

[Knicks411]

Izzo plays Duke every year, get's blasted by them(He's never beat K) and builds up his RPI. It's comical at this point. Better coach than JB though. Oh yeah their AD runs then committee.

I had to look this up, Izzo is 1-9 (!) vs K. He did beat him in the 2005 tournament, but yikes.

 

[Alsacs]

Iowa is possibly better than some of the other bubble teams.

How is Michigan State a lock? 10-8 in the B1G is not impressive. They don't have as good of wins as us, they only have 2 road wins, they have a bad loss at home to Northeastern. Yes, we do have the other bad losses to UConn and St John's, but I think our more impressive conference resume is far and away better than MSU's. I don't get why they are considered such a lock and we're barely considered in. I guess just playing a tougher schedule and not winning the games is very important.

Iowa has a top 5 offensive system in the nation. If McCaffrey got his team to just play average defense they would be consistent top 25.

I wish we could have the Iowa offense with our defense. However in college hoops you don't see complete teams.

 

[MSOrange]

Iowa has a top 5 offensive system in the nation. If McCaffrey got his team to just play average defense they would be consistent top 25.

I wish we could have the Iowa offense with our defense. However in college hoops you don't see complete teams.

That's exactly what killed Iowa, particularly in the non-conference season. They decided defense was optional. I have no idea how you give up 98 points to Nebraska-Omaha. It's gotten better as the season has gone along but can still be an issue.

 

[Alsacs]

Izzo plays Duke every year, get's blasted by them(He's never beat K) and builds up his RPI. It's comical at this point. Better coach than JB though. Oh yeah their AD runs then committee.

Izzo plays insane non conference schedules. Duke/Coach K is Izzo's Pitino for JB.

They are getting in because of their schedule. I think they are average and will be done earlier but they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Out of the 11 non conference games he only plays 5-6 at home.
They go on the road a lot.
You can lose OOC road games and be okay.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Izzo plays insane non conference schedules. Duke/Coach K is Izzo's Pitino for JB.

They are getting in because of their schedule. I think they are average and will be done earlier but they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Out of the 11 non conference games he only plays 5-6 at home.
They go on the road a lot.
You can lose OOC road games and be okay.

Yeah I just hate the gaming of schedules lets certain teams get in. It's why MSU is in and why Wake is on the bubble. Do you assume if they play lesser teams they will win?

 

[Trueblue25]

Sad.

Was happy to make slapping around Crean and Indiana an annual occurrence.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah I just hate the gaming of schedules lets certain teams get in. It's why MSU is in and why Wake is on the bubble. Do you assume if they play lesser teams they will win?

They wouldn't get in if they played a lesser schedule.
Teams should be gaming the system when they don't have stacked teams.

I would rather play on the road against P5/BE teams than playing South Carolina State or Holy Cross at home.
Our schedule this year was perfect. It's why we can get in beating.no one nonconference wise but by winning 10 ACC games is enough.
We got better and the committee can see it while seeing we didn't just play cream puffs at home.

 

[Knicks411]

Izzo plays insane non conference schedules. Duke/Coach K is Izzo's Pitino for JB.

They are getting in because of their schedule. I think they are average and will be done earlier but they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Out of the 11 non conference games he only plays 5-6 at home.
They go on the road a lot.
You can lose OOC road games and be okay.

Their OOC is really interesting to me.

Arizona, Kentucky, Wichita, Baylor, plus St Johns (all neutral) and @ Duke.
Then at home they played FGCU, Miss Valley State, Oral Roberts, Youngstown State, Northeastern (loss), and Oakland. All of the home games were against teams 100 or higher in KP, with 4 of them over 250. While all of the neutral/away games were top 100; all but St. Johns in the top 25.

 

[Alsacs]

Their OOC is really interesting to me.

Arizona, Kentucky, Wichita, Baylor, plus St Johns (all neutral) and @ Duke.
Then at home they played FGCU, Miss Valley State, Oral Roberts, Youngstown State, Northeastern (loss), and Oakland. All of the home games were against teams 100 or higher in KP, with 4 of them over 250. While all of the neutral/away games were top 100; all but St. Johns in the top 25.

They play 3-5 brand name schools every year. That gets you the benefit of the doubt.
I go back and look at the schedules JB played they were Izzo like.
We played in the 80's BE and were playing Arizona home/home, Kentucky home/home, Michigan home/home, UCLA home/home, Michigan State home/home.

I miss those type of series which we won't see again because of the Big East teams being the non conference home/homes and JB not liking go across the country now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They wouldn't get in if they played a lesser schedule.
Teams should be gaming the system when they don't have stacked teams.

I would rather play on the road against P5/BE teams than playing South Carolina State or Holy Cross at home.
Our schedule this year was perfect. It's why we can get in beating.no one nonconference wise but by winning 10 ACC games is enough.
We got better and the committee can see it while seeing we didn't just play cream puffs at home.

I totally get it. MSU is in a different position than us as an Athletic Department. We rely on basketball for revenue because football doesn't bring it in. We need those home games. MSU brings in more revenue from a football perspective so they can get away with having less home basketball games. I'm not against having MSU in, it's just interesting that some losses are weighted less than others.

 

[jncuse]

Yeah I just hate the gaming of schedules lets certain teams get in. It's why MSU is in and why Wake is on the bubble. Do you assume if they play lesser teams they will win?

Michigan St is not gaming the system with their OOC schedule. Do you really think Izzo sets his schedule up that way so he can get in the tourney? This is not a program that does things just to ensure they get in the tourney for years they have done it like this and it is for much higher reasons. He does it because he thinks it makes his team better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Michigan St is not gaming the system with their OOC schedule. Do you really think Izzo sets his schedule up that way so he can get in the tourney? This is not a program that does things just to ensure they get in the tourney for years they have done it like this and it is for much higher reasons. He does it because he thinks it makes his team better.

That too. My point is it definately matter who/where you lose against as much as it matters who you beat and I think there's some assumption those losses will be wins if they were against other teams. I'm not disagreeing that MSU shouldn't be in.

 

[Alsacs]

I totally get it. MSU is in a different position than us as an Athletic Department. We rely on basketball for revenue because football doesn't bring it in. We need those home games. MSU brings in more revenue from a football perspective so they can get away with having less home basketball games. I'm not against having MSU in, it's just interesting that some losses are weighted less than others.

The money was true in 2005-2009 but it isn't the excuse it once was.
The truth is JB prefers home games.
I hope when Hop takes over we see more cross sectional home/homes again.

 

[Alsacs]

Michigan St is not gaming the system with their OOC schedule. Do you really think Izzo sets his schedule up that way so he can get in the tourney? This is not a program that does things just to ensure they get in the tourney for years they have done it like this and it is for much higher reasons. He does it because he thinks it makes his team better.

Izzo is scheduling hard because if he wins he has scalps for the NCAA seeding. If he loses then it doesn't harm in the minds of the committee. Also so his teams are ready for the tournament against good teams.

Look at the schedule's Izzo does for mediocre teams
2003–04 Michigan State Spartans men's basketball team - Wikipedia
In 03-04 he played
At top 10 Kansas
Top 10 Oklahoma in Detroit
top 10 Kentucky at Ford Field
Top 10 Duke at home
At top 20 Syracuse

All in one nonconference season.
That team went 18-12.