The Black Hole Years

[SWC75]

Syracuse basketball's "black hole years" were 1960-61 and 1961-62. These have been the pot hole years.

Syracuse Orange Basketball Season Records

 

[orangecuse]

How do the last four years show SU's true colors? The last few years have had sanctions, injuries, and coaching questions. That seems to be outside the normal. Hopefully next year gets us back to what I consider to be SU's true colors, and I'm glad we have JB to bring it back.

IMO, the program is getting back to the way it likes to operate, good program 4 year kids who slowly increase their roles and minutes, paired up with a couple of highly recruited stud players who have a 1-2 year expectancy. So now the program kids, those with the mindset of being able to slowly progress - FH, PC, Hughes, Moyer, Sid, and Buddy are here (and I hope HW stays in the mix). Add in Carey and Baz as the traditional stud influx. This is how the successful program used to operate and it looks to be back!

The last couple of years have not gone according to plan but are much more the outliers under JB. The SU/JB true colors are not the last 2 years at all. C'mon.

The only thing 'outside of normal,' in my opinion, are the sanctions as it isn't something one should come to routinely expect. Injuries, coaching questions, decisions, etc. is normal and part of the game.

JB is the captain of the ship you may recall, he is responsible for the sanctions, roster decisions/management, etc., you know, things that "have not gone as planned." We can all argue the severity or punishment of the infractions didn't meet the crimes, but nonetheless, there are what they are. And, so is our record...'you're what your record says you are.'

I don't know, as you suggest, that the last couple of years are necessarily "outliers" or more of a cyclical thing. We have had down years in the past unrelated to sanctions, not often mind you, but we've had them, so I wouldn't refer to this most current blip as an outlier. At best this season, our conference record (regular season) will be no better than .500. We have hovered around this .500 the past 4 seasons, we have only been in the ACC for 5. We have yet to win one, not one ACC tournament game. I certainly hope moving forward being a hovering .500 team in our conference isn't the "new normal," but until our conference track record proves otherwise, it's wishful thinking. Time will tell.

As you mention, next year's roster (if we can stay healthy, which is certainly no guarantee...see Notre Dame) appears to be one to look forward to springing us north of mediocre. I know with all my being, I certainly am.

 

[SWC75]

1000 likes and dead on! No doubt that the sanctions hurt, but it was a contributing factor, not the primary one. What carries more weight, imo, is what you have alluded to. Great post!

If we had all the kids that were recruited here - nobody left and everybody's healthy, no one would be complaining about our recruiting. The problem is the departures and injuries.

 

[FrancoPizza]

a slide that, as a point of fact, wouldn't have occurred without the sanctions.

And you know this how?

 

[FrancoPizza]

The problem is the departures and injuries.

this is not 1995. It’s the staff’s fault if they’re not anticipating injuries and early departures and they refuse to use all of their available scholarships.

 

[orangecuse]

If we had all the kids that were recruited here - nobody left and everybody's healthy, no one would be complaining about our recruiting. The problem is the departures and injuries.

Well of course, you know..."if's." One thing I would argue though is that I'm not sure all would be happy about the lead guard position.

 

[SWC75]

this is not 1995. It’s the staff’s fault if they’re not anticipating injuries and early departures and they refuse to use all of their available scholarships.

They used all their available scholarships this year. Remember that Hughes takes up one. And are we really arguing that the difference between (relative) success or failure is the 9-10-11 guys?

 

[SWC75]

Well of course, you know..."if's." One thing I would argue though is that I'm not sure all would be happy about the lead guard position.

The kids recruited here are not "ifs". The issue is: were the recruits inadequate to begin with or is the problem that they left or got hurt. it's clearly the latter.

 

[orangecuse]

The kids recruited here are not "ifs". The issue is: were the recruits inadequate to begin with or is the problem that they left or got hurt. it's clearly the latter.

You're moving the goalposts. You said "if'" they were still here, and "if" there are no injuries. Those are "if's" in my book. Of course, the kids were recruited here, unless it's a virtual world you are referring to.

 

[Brooky03]

And you know this how?

I have eyes and ears

 

[Cusefan0307]

And you know this how?

Well for one Kevin Huerter would probably be on the team and he would solve most of the issues we have offensively this year.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The only thing 'outside of normal,' in my opinion, are the sanctions as it isn't something one should come to routinely expect. Injuries, coaching questions, decisions, etc. is normal and part of the game.

JB is the captain of the ship you may recall, he is responsible for the sanctions, roster decisions/management, etc., you know, things that "have not gone as planned." We can all argue the severity or punishment of the infractions didn't meet the crimes, but nonetheless, there are what they are. And, so is our record...'you're what your record says you are.'

I don't know, as you suggest, that the last couple of years are necessarily "outliers" or more of a cyclical thing. We have had down years in the past unrelated to sanctions, not often mind you, but we've had them, so I wouldn't refer to this most current blip as an outlier. .

You mention "you're what your record says you are" yet you call SU's true colors based on just some limited time frame. JBs/SUs normal record is around 24-8ish. And yes, it could be cyclical, and if so wouldn't you then expect the cycle to start coming back up? To what many of us would consider SU's true colors.

And yes, JB is captain of the ship and as such gets heat for all of it. But in light of your Final Four exclusionary clause, do you really get to saddle JB with Hop's 5 losses during that season?

 

[721Comstock]

Speaking of Final Fours and “Black Holes”:
(From TNIAAM)

Fun Fact No. 2: Just seven schools have made more NCAA Tournamentappearances than Boston College (18) without making it to the Final Four. That list: BYU (29), Xavier (27), Missouri (25), Alabama (20), Creighton (20), Tennessee (20) and Utah State (20).

Those are 8 pretty decent programs who have NEVER been to even 1 Final Four, EVER.

Perspective, people.
Have some.

Fans of those programs would kill to be in a black hole like we are right now.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Well for one Kevin Huerter would probably be on the team and he would solve most of the issues we have offensively this year.

You think we're just a stand-still shooter away from a healthy offense? That's one heckuva bridge you're selling...

 

[Cusefan0307]

You think we're just a stand-still shooter away from a healthy offense? That's one heckuva bridge you're selling...

Thanks for responding with the most ignorant post in the thread.

He's averaging 14/5/3 shooting 60% from 2 and 42% from three and almost 80% from the foul line. His rebounding and assist numbers are better than Battle, as is his shooting percentage at the rim.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Thanks for responding with the most ignorant post in the thread.

He's averaging 14/5/3 shooting 60% from 2 and 42% from three and almost 80% from the foul line. His rebounding and assist numbers are better than Battle, as is his shooting percentage at the rim.

Who would he be taking minutes from? Battle? No. Brisset? Maybe, but then the zone becomes much weaker. It's more of wash than you think.

 

[br801]

Speaking of Final Fours and “Black Holes”:
(From TNIAAM)



Those are 8 pretty decent programs who have NEVER been to even 1 Final Four, EVER.

Perspective, people.
Have some.

Fans of those programs would kill to be in a black hole like we are right now.

Perspective? That's for losers. We're entitled to an unbroken string of top 20 teams, dominant wins and deep NCCAT runs, delivered by an efficient blend of NBA talents and skilled program players in aesthetically pleasing fashion.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Who would he be taking minutes from? Battle? No. Brisset? Maybe, but then the zone becomes much weaker. It's more of wash than you think.

He would play the 3 and Brissett would
Play the 4. Marek and Moyer wouldn’t play. FWIW every advanced metric says he’s better than any player we have.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I feel like I'm reaching my breaking point watching this basketball program over the last four seasons. Aside from the Final 4 run this has been absolutely abysmal. 13, 14, 15 losses respectively over the last three seasons, and a minimum of 13 this year. I now realize that this is probably what it feels like to be an NC State, or Marquette, or Georgia Tech fan... hope for lightning in a bottle one year, but probably going to be in double-digit loss territory. Just horrible going into a season w these feelings and then actually enduring it. We've been spoiled here no doubt. I'm just venting. I'll close w these two texts I sent to my buddies this morning.

"I will always call these the black hole years. Final four two week tourney stretch excluded... aside from that these are the Black Hole Years. 13, 14, 15, and now a minimum of 13 this year. Crazy.

We are getting destroyed more than any other program by NBA defections because we find fringe NBA talent like Lydon, Malachi, MCW, Ennis, that were genius recruiting hits, then as soon as they show NBA potential they're gone and we are left w a depleted roster w talent for a Final Four run gone. Other programs reload, but we lose the lucky finds and have to find more lucky finds. Hopefully this FBI bombshell evens the playing field."

Ok..so here is our "black hole" compared to the black holes of some other programs...other than Team 4, the numbers are actually pretty comparable...want to take a guess at who they might be?

 

[Alsacs]

Ok..so here is our "black hole" compared to the black holes of some other programs...other than Team 4, the numbers are actually pretty comparable...want to take a guess at who they might be?

View attachment 123652

Team 1 is definitely Villanova
I think team 2 is UNC.
I have no clue on team 3 will guess Indiana.
I think team4 is UCLA

 

[Cusefan0307]

I've been frustrated this year, but I'm willing to bet that winning isn't enough for some of the perpetual complainers.

If we go 25-6 next year and say 13-5 in the ACC some of the complainers we have now will still be complaining that those games are won if we are winning in the 60's instead of the 80's.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Team 1 is definitely Villanova
I think team 2 is UNC.
I have no clue on team 3 will guess Indiana.
I think team4 is UCLA

Team 2 is Carolina...

Good guesses on others but not correct...

 

[SoBeCuse]

I've been frustrated this year, but I'm willing to bet that winning isn't enough for some of the perpetual complainers.

If we go 25-6 next year and say 13-5 in the ACC some of the complainers we have now will still be complaining that those games are won if we are winning in the 60's instead of the 80's.

I think that’s a stretch. I’m not really complaining too much about where we are right now. I, too, predicted NIT and am fine with that given this team’s overall ability, adversity, etc. Note: not down with the overall state of the program.

But, any intelligent fan I think worries about grinding games out in the 60s with a potentially MUCH better squad next season, regardless if they are 25-6. That probably means we struggle in the halfcourt and are too reliant on the defense. That probably means we are not getting out in transition. In the Tourney you gotta be able to score and convert in the halfcourt. 25-6 would be a good thing but I bet most of us would be concerned with the postseason potential if we were grinding out games in the 60s.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think that’s a stretch. I’m not really complaining too much about where we are right now. I, too, predicted NIT and am fine with that given this team’s overall ability, adversity, etc. Note: not down with the overall state of the program.

But, any intelligent fan I think worries about grinding games out in the 60s with a potentially MUCH better squad next season, regardless if they are 25-6. That probably means we struggle in the halfcourt and are too reliant on the defense. That probably means we are not getting out in transition. In the Tourney you gotta be able to score and convert in the halfcourt. 25-6 would be a good thing but I bet most of us would be concerned with the postseason potential if we were grinding out games in the 60s.

If we are beating Duke and UNC 65-57 because JB puts the stall on with 5 minutes to go up 57-42 and someone worries about postseason potential they are only concerned about style of play.

I already know that there’s people who will complain at the pace of play if we are winning half court games. It happened here in 2012.

 

[SoBeCuse]

If we are beating Duke and UNC 65-57 because JB puts the stall on with 5 minutes to go up 57-42 and someone worries about postseason potential they are only concerned about style of play.

I already know that there’s people who will complain at the pace of play if we are winning half court games. It happened here in 2012.

Don’t some so called experts here and there claim Final 4s are all that matters? Well, to get there one needs to be able to score not hold on for dear life in games. Pace of play is a separate issue. Gotta score. The likelihood of your scenarios are pretty bleak, though.