the crane the crane

[orangecuse]

The ridiculousness of this was highlighted in your post speculating about the final roof color.

Imagine - a $100-million-plus project involving the University's only building with national visibility, and with 7 or 8 weeks to go before work wraps up, nobody even knows what color the roof will be.

From the top all the way down, they do a poor job with simple things.

For Pete's sake, it's only a roof!

 

[kirbivore]

He needs someone else to hate on now that Will Hicks is gone.

Sala has yet to sink to those lows. All the other stuff about how he's the hardest working man in show business I'll take your word for. I'm in the camp of not appreciating his CIA secrecy routine.

 

[longtimefan]

Looks like the North and West sections are close to a connection. Wish there was a camera there so we could see the meshing.

 

[DoubleDee]

Can we talk about the roof again?

 

[sutomcat]

Looks like the North and West sections are close to a connection. Wish there was a camera there so we could see the meshing.

Hard to tell for sure but I am pretty sure the north and west sections are now within one column of each other.

That progress comes at the expense of the gap between the west and south builds, which has stopped for a while now. That gap is 3 full columns, 4 for the border column.

Looks like there is no work going on right now closing the gap between the north and east builds but both cranes on the east side are working to close the gap between the east and south builds. Based on what I see, that is probably going to be the second set of builds to get completed/joined.

 

[dollarbill44]

Looks like the North and West sections are close to a connection. Wish there was a camera there so we could see the meshing.

Let's keep this on topic. Pete Sala, ladies and gentlemen, last reminder.

Er, wait. Never mind.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Hard to tell for sure but I am pretty sure the north and west sections are now within one column of each other.

That progress comes at the expense of the gap between the west and south builds, which has stopped for a while now. That gap is 3 full columns, 4 for the border column.

Looks like there is no work going on right now closing the gap between the north and east builds but both cranes on the east side are working to close the gap between the east and south builds. Based on what I see, that is probably going to be the second set of builds to get completed/joined.

It looks like material supplies indicate which direction they go. The west end is nearly depleted of materials again.

 

[CuseLegacy]

It looks like material supplies indicate which direction they go. The west end is nearly depleted of materials again.

And crane placement?

 

[CuseLegacy]

That is what the design called for. Wish they all went in the same direction. I guess this is a case where function beat form.

Wondering what color the PTFE fabric will be, Hoping it ends up white, which would tie back to the old roof. Hoping the color of the hard shell section of the roof is a little different though. Maybe a light tan. There is such a thing as too much white.

The initial color of the PTFE fabric is not necessarily what the final color will be. With the old dome roof, the fabric started off quite off white; kind of a light tan. After a couple of months in the sun, the sunlight bleached it to a pure white. My understanding is that the new PTFE fabric is quite similar to the fabric used for the old roof, so I am assuming it will probably bleach white, or at less get significantly lighter over time.

Winds of over 15 MPH are forecast for Syracuse today. The cranes are still all down. Pretty sure they called off work today because of the wind. That probably pushes the completion date for the framing of the roof out a day. Looking at the forecast, Monday has winds of 13 MPH forecast and Wednesday is not much better at 12 MPH. Hopefully they can work those days. I think that is around the limit at which they can hang steel.

At the least, the wind is going to be a problem and slow things down on those days.

Looking like the framing might not get completed until the end of the week now.

PTFE - Fabritecture

What is PTFE? PTFE is a high quality woven fibreglass membrane coated in Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and is an ideal fabric for tensile membrane structures. Read more.

fabritecture.com

PTFE

PTFE is a high quality woven fibreglass membrane coated in Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and is an ideal fabric for tensile membrane structures. PTFE fabric is high quality, weather, fire and UV resistant, and extremely durable. The Teflon coating creates a smooth surface that allows the fabric to be ‘washed’ by the rain, reducing the need for frequent cleaning. The membrane behaves elastically under normal conditions, does not creep or stress relax, and has a life expectancy exceeding 30 years. A standard PTFE warranty ranges from 12-15 years.

PTFE is highly reflective, making it ideal for shade structures, as it can withstand high temperatures (-73°C – 232°C) without transferring much heat. This is the defining feature of PTFE that differentiates it from conventional glazing. Testing has indicated that up to 80% of solar energy is reflected, with an 8% rate of absorption by the fabric itself. Some grades of PTFE however, can absorb up to 14% of solar energy, allowing a 12% rate of transmission through the fabric.

PTFE can be spot-welded, or sewn which creates excellent fabric strength, and removes the concern of creases and splitting as a result of repeated folding and flexing of the material by improving durability.

Lighting

PTFE fabric has the ability to evenly disperse light, restricting the need for artificial lighting during the daytime, and creating an environment in which indoor plants and flora can survive.

Sound Absorption

Given the air permeability and flexibility of PTFE, it has tremendous sound absorption properties. External noise is capable of being isolated to meet the noise criterion of various buildings, while reverberation is directly relative to the internal size of the structure. Acoustics are clearly enhanced for smaller rooms, and can be treated to accommodate larger scale environments such as stadiums and aquatic centres.

Maintenance

PTFE fabric is a low maintenance option that still offers exceptional quality, strength and a long lifespan. UV light bleaches the fabric, generating a bright and clean aesthetic. The self-cleaning properties created by the Teflon coating allow the fabric to resist moisture and remain clean and bright after installation.

 

[CU44SE]

PTFE - Fabritecture

What is PTFE? PTFE is a high quality woven fibreglass membrane coated in Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and is an ideal fabric for tensile membrane structures. Read more.

fabritecture.com

Sound Absorption

Given the air permeability and flexibility of PTFE, it has tremendous sound absorption properties. External noise is capable of being isolated to meet the noise criterion of various buildings, while reverberation is directly relative to the internal size of the structure. Acoustics are clearly enhanced for smaller rooms, and can be treated to accommodate larger scale environments such as stadiums and aquatic centres.

This is the part that confuses me and I cannot seam to understand it. It says it absorbs sound, which would not be good for making the stadium loud, because you would want something that reflects sound. But then it goes on to say acoustics are enhanced for smaller rooms and can be treated to accomodate larger scale environments like stadiums. So what does this mean, that it makes it louder or quieter. Im so worried our home field advantage will be diminished.

 

[sutomcat]

PTFE - Fabritecture

What is PTFE? PTFE is a high quality woven fibreglass membrane coated in Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and is an ideal fabric for tensile membrane structures. Read more.

fabritecture.com

PTFE

PTFE is a high quality woven fibreglass membrane coated in Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and is an ideal fabric for tensile membrane structures. PTFE fabric is high quality, weather, fire and UV resistant, and extremely durable. The Teflon coating creates a smooth surface that allows the fabric to be ‘washed’ by the rain, reducing the need for frequent cleaning. The membrane behaves elastically under normal conditions, does not creep or stress relax, and has a life expectancy exceeding 30 years. A standard PTFE warranty ranges from 12-15 years.

PTFE is highly reflective, making it ideal for shade structures, as it can withstand high temperatures (-73°C – 232°C) without transferring much heat. This is the defining feature of PTFE that differentiates it from conventional glazing. Testing has indicated that up to 80% of solar energy is reflected, with an 8% rate of absorption by the fabric itself. Some grades of PTFE however, can absorb up to 14% of solar energy, allowing a 12% rate of transmission through the fabric.

PTFE can be spot-welded, or sewn which creates excellent fabric strength, and removes the concern of creases and splitting as a result of repeated folding and flexing of the material by improving durability.

Lighting

PTFE fabric has the ability to evenly disperse light, restricting the need for artificial lighting during the daytime, and creating an environment in which indoor plants and flora can survive.

Sound Absorption

Given the air permeability and flexibility of PTFE, it has tremendous sound absorption properties. External noise is capable of being isolated to meet the noise criterion of various buildings, while reverberation is directly relative to the internal size of the structure. Acoustics are clearly enhanced for smaller rooms, and can be treated to accommodate larger scale environments such as stadiums and aquatic centres.

Maintenance

PTFE fabric is a low maintenance option that still offers exceptional quality, strength and a long lifespan. UV light bleaches the fabric, generating a bright and clean aesthetic. The self-cleaning properties created by the Teflon coating allow the fabric to resist moisture and remain clean and bright after installation.

It sounds like another name for PTFE is Teflon. Teflon is just a name brand most know the product by.

We know the old roof was fiberglass coated with Teflon. We know it bleached when it was exposed to sunlight. So it is clear that the PTFE fabric is similar to the fabric used for the old roof.

This article says the PTFE roof will be more efficient than the old roof, allowing for reduced maintenance costs and risks. It does says the PTFE will trap the roaring noise of the crowd.

The old roof had a life span of about 15 years. The new one is supposed to last at least 40 years. I assume the constant pressure on the fabric of the old roof put it under strain and is a big reason the life of the new roof is supposed to be much longer than the lifespan of the old roof. But I could be wrong on that.

FabriTec Structures Begins Carrier Dome Roof Construction

FabriTec Structures has started the installation of a massive new cable suspension membrane roof on the Carrier Dome at Syracuse University.

fabritecstructures.com

 

[NJCuse97]

I agree, I also wish that an architect of Populous' stature, or HOK, etc. had been retained. Here's a direct quote of Sala's about a month after the infamous leak.

"We're working with Populous on those different facade options. We've talked about using ETFE in some of the wall panels. It's challenging with the building, but it's definitely something we're looking into."

Perhaps as you allude, there wasn't any correlation, although it's interesting that The Walter's Group had it originally on their website, along with other particular material/steel specifics required, including suspension fabrication. Turner Construction was the apparent GC/Construction manager as well at the time.

A year or so later when Carlson (I believe) from the Syracuse newspaper reached out to get a status from Turner, their response was that 'we are currently in a holding pattern' or along those lines. A year from that (2 years after the original leak) the current roof/structure being erected was reintroduced to the public. Interestingly, Turner was no longer involved nor was The Walter's Group. There were articles about the stink SU made after the so called leak...I'm guessing due to that apparent stink, it's not a coincidence they are not involved and SU went in another direction.

So, in that regard, they apparently cut off their nose to spite their face.

There is a lot that can happen and for the record, they were looking at the work of the group doing this for a long time. They looked very closely at the BC Place project as the best (only?) example of a "rigid" roofing on a building with a direct lineage to the Dome. That project faced enormous cost overruns, and I know SU, being as price conscious (conservative) as they are, wanted lots of assurances that they could control that. Geiger very likely threw the architects under that bus and the Populous team, who's Dome design scheme likely came in well over the target, were jettisoned, making Geiger look prescient and the rest is history. My guess is that there was no punishment about a leaked rendering (at least not with regard to awarding the project) and in fact the leak was probably after the fact, in an effort to get back to the table by drumming up public opinion/outcry. Populous was retained as the design firm for The Barnes Center, and it is my understanding there were cost overruns there too that are mostly attributed to found existing conditions (old building, inadequate MEP systems and infrastructure, tight schedule, the soil was not able to support the addition). This is a very real thing, but I am sure it only made the SU facilities team more confident in their choices.

This is not a smear of Populous in any way. This is the simple reality of project dynamics.

 

[721Comstock]

There is a lot that can happen and for the record, they were looking at the work of the group doing this for a long time. They looked very closely at the BC Place project as the best (only?) example of a "rigid" roofing on a building with a direct lineage to the Dome. That project faced enormous cost overruns, and I know SU, being as price conscious (conservative) as they are, wanted lots of assurances that they could control that. Geiger very likely threw the architects under that bus and the Populous team, who's Dome design scheme likely came in well over the target, were jettisoned, making Geiger look prescient and the rest is history. My guess is that there was no punishment about a leaked rendering (at least not with regard to awarding the project) and in fact the leak was probably after the fact, in an effort to get back to the table by drumming up public opinion/outcry. Populous was retained as the design firm for The Barnes Center, and it is my understanding there were cost overruns there too that are mostly attributed to found existing conditions (old building, inadequate MEP systems and infrastructure, tight schedule, the soil was not able to support the addition). This is a very real thing, but I am sure it only made the SU facilities team more confident in their choices.

This is not a smear of Populous in any way. This is the simple reality of project dynamics.

Didn’t Populous’ new owners reneg on the prior deal?
And tried to raise the price dramatically just before construction was set to begin?

Who would want to keep a contractor who pulled that sorta last minute crap?

This is a smear of Populous in any way.

 

[DoubleDee]

Didn’t Populous’ new owners reneg on the prior deal?
And tried to raise the price dramatically just before construction was set to begin?

Who would want to keep a contractor who pulled that sorta last minute crap?

This is a smear of Populous in any way.

So a Pop smear?

 

[sutomcat]

Morning update:

It is a miserable day in Syracuse. It is raining hard, it has been raining hard and the forecast looks like it is going to rain most of the day.

They loaded up the storage area near the west wall with steel around 6:30 am but I don't think they have moved a single piece up top yet.

I do see some arcs getting installed and a few pieces of steel for other builds of the hard shell going up but it is looking like today will largely be a lost day. 3 of the 4 cranes outside the dome have been put down and the fourth is not moving.

Might stop raining early in the afternoon. That is our best bet for some progress today. But the PTFE section of the roof is now way ahead of the hard shell part.

 

[ImperialOrange]

This is the part that confuses me and I cannot seam to understand it. It says it absorbs sound, which would not be good for making the stadium loud, because you would want something that reflects sound. But then it goes on to say acoustics are enhanced for smaller rooms and can be treated to accomodate larger scale environments like stadiums. So what does this mean, that it makes it louder or quieter. Im so worried our home field advantage will be diminished.

Reads as though the PTFE keeps external nose out while increasing the clarity of internal noise. Could be part and parcel to improving the sound system along with the requisite hard ware improvement of the speakers themselves.

May be confused at the is point but the PTFE will be the center, peaked portion of the new roof correct? If so the outter roof portions could reflect and increase crowd noise onto the pitch while the center portion could increase sound system clarity.

 

[orangecuse]

There is a lot that can happen and for the record, they were looking at the work of the group doing this for a long time. They looked very closely at the BC Place project as the best (only?) example of a "rigid" roofing on a building with a direct lineage to the Dome. That project faced enormous cost overruns, and I know SU, being as price conscious (conservative) as they are, wanted lots of assurances that they could control that. Geiger very likely threw the architects under that bus and the Populous team, who's Dome design scheme likely came in well over the target, were jettisoned, making Geiger look prescient and the rest is history. My guess is that there was no punishment about a leaked rendering (at least not with regard to awarding the project) and in fact the leak was probably after the fact, in an effort to get back to the table by drumming up public opinion/outcry. Populous was retained as the design firm for The Barnes Center, and it is my understanding there were cost overruns there too that are mostly attributed to found existing conditions (old building, inadequate MEP systems and infrastructure, tight schedule, the soil was not able to support the addition). This is a very real thing, but I am sure it only made the SU facilities team more confident in their choices.

This is not a smear of Populous in any way. This is the simple reality of project dynamics.

I appreciate all of your posts in this thread as well as the other threads that have been around here in relation to the Dome renovation. Your contribution based upon your knowledge & background has been quite valuable.

I realize cost overruns, unforeseen latency issues, etc. seem to be a common dynamic regarding projects of this scope, especially relative to major renovations. I do find the after the fact, public opinion/outcry angle interesting, as it appeared that SU was the one doing all the crying based upon how they reacted relative to statements made/ensuing articles afterwards. For the most part, things remained pretty quiet & tight lipped on that front for basically two full years until the roller coaster design was presented.

In any event, whatever the exact case was, it's history as you allude.

Although the engineering is incredibly impressive, I'm not fond of the design, it's simply my humble opinion. In my view, it's somewhat odd looking, an architectural/aesthetic speed bump so to speak when glancing the campus'/city's skyline.

 

[bnoro]

I appreciate all of your posts in this thread as well as the other threads that have been around here in relation to the Dome renovation. Your contribution based upon your knowledge & background has been quite valuable.

I realize cost overruns, unforeseen latency issues, etc. seem to be a common dynamic regarding projects of this scope, especially relative to major renovations. I do find the after the fact, public opinion/outcry angle interesting, as it appeared that SU was the one doing all the crying based upon how they reacted relative to statements made/ensuing articles afterwards. For the most part, things remained pretty quiet & tight lipped on that front for basically two full years until the roller coaster design was presented.

In any event, whatever the exact case was, it's history as you allude.

Although the engineering is incredibly impressive, I'm not fond of the design, it's simply my humble opinion. In my view, it's somewhat odd looking, an architectural/aesthetic speed bump so to speak when glancing the campus'/city's skyline.

The campus has buildings like Ernie Davis Hall, Bird Library, and Schine Student Center on it. They're all also architectural nightmares. I'll wait and see what the finished product looks like before I judge the Dome.

 

[OttoMets]

The campus has buildings like Ernie Davis Hall, Bird Library, and Schine Student Center on it. They're all also architectural nightmares. I'll wait and see what the finished product looks like before I judge the Dome.

Schine was nice, at least before this absurd renovation design that includes a south-facing glass curtain wall in place of the simple large arched windows with heavy masonry walls that prevented the space from heating up too much.

But my opinion is beside the point (it's all subjective anyway), and I think the broader point is that it doesn't make sense to judge a half-built structure.

That said, I'm critical about many recent design choices but I'm surprised by how much I like the truss system (so far). We'll see how it looks with its hat on.

 

[orangecuse]

The campus has buildings like Ernie Davis Hall, Bird Library, and Schine Student Center on it. They're all also architectural nightmares. I'll wait and see what the finished product looks like before I judge the Dome.

You do that. You may not have the ability to visualize as well as some others may.

 

[BillSU]

Morning update:

It is a miserable day in Syracuse. It is raining hard, it has been raining hard and the forecast looks like it is going to rain most of the day.

They loaded up the storage area near the west wall with steel around 6:30 am but I don't think they have moved a single piece up top yet.

I do see some arcs getting installed and a few pieces of steel for other builds of the hard shell going up but it is looking like today will largely be a lost day. 3 of the 4 cranes outside the dome have been put down and the fourth is not moving.

Might stop raining early in the afternoon. That is our best bet for some progress today. But the PTFE section of the roof is now way ahead of the hard shell part.

Tom. Maybe the rain will stop, maybe it won't. Does everyone know you are in the middle of a tropical storm? This Accuweather map is now!

 

[sutomcat]

Tom. Maybe the rain will stop, maybe it won't. Does everyone know you are in the middle of a tropical storm? This Accuweather map is now!

View attachment 185284

Yes, the rain is not expected to end until around 6:30. Looks like workers are hanging out under the dome staircases, waiting for a break in the weather.

Tomorrow is another day.

 

[BillSU]

Accuweather now @ 4:44, we're about finished with the storm! Yahoo.

 

[NJCuse97]

I appreciate all of your posts in this thread as well as the other threads that have been around here in relation to the Dome renovation. Your contribution based upon your knowledge & background has been quite valuable.

I realize cost overruns, unforeseen latency issues, etc. seem to be a common dynamic regarding projects of this scope, especially relative to major renovations. I do find the after the fact, public opinion/outcry angle interesting, as it appeared that SU was the one doing all the crying based upon how they reacted relative to statements made/ensuing articles afterwards. For the most part, things remained pretty quiet & tight lipped on that front for basically two full years until the roller coaster design was presented.

In any event, whatever the exact case was, it's history as you allude.

Although the engineering is incredibly impressive, I'm not fond of the design, it's simply my humble opinion. In my view, it's somewhat odd looking, an architectural/aesthetic speed bump so to speak when glancing the campus'/city's skyline.

Not challenging your taste or opinion here, just providing some food for thought.
I always saw the solution (even before the leaked renderings) as having to be something like CenturyLink Stadium

If there is any potential encouragement in that for some folks, consider the next image for down the road.

 

[sutomcat]

Not challenging your taste or opinion here, just providing some food for thought.
I always saw the solution (even before the leaked renderings) as having to be something like CenturyLink Stadium
View attachment 185292
If there is any potential encouragement in that for some folks, consider the next image for down the road.
View attachment 185293

Really hope they add LED lighting on the crown truss and roof at some point. It is the kind of thing that will really make the project come to life.

I found another live, streaming camera that shows the dome.

I think it is located on the roof of Hinds Hall. It appears to be a much better quality camera that provides a more close up, detailed look at the roof and crown truss. I think it is supposed to show the SU red tailed hawks.

Maybe they will pop up and make an appearance as well.

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