The Daily Orange...

[JackBauer44]

IMO - College is about teaching young men and women accountability and independence. If a HS coach every called me to ask why one of my player wasn't in the lineup - I would tell that coach that if the player is that concerned about playing time, they should be teaching the student athlete to advocate for themselves. Just my opinion as a college coach. I'm sure Finwad would agree as well.

 

[OttoMets]

Just wanted to agree with you, the DO lost a bunch of excellent young sportswriters last year. Schwedelson, Schneidman, Grossman, Dougherty the year before...all really talented.

On a positive note, I really like this article in today's DO on Allen Griffin. Fortier hit a home run.

The lessons of Allen Griffin, Syracuse’s newest assistant coach

OK, this is an excellent line from the writer of the Griffin article: "“I’ll be honest, I thank God every day that I’m back, and I’m not a Christian.”"

(Not on topic, but something like that ought to be shared.)

 

[CuseLegacy]

OK, this is an excellent line from the writer of the Griffin article: "“I’ll be honest, I thank God every day that I’m back, and I’m not a Christian.”"

(Not on topic, but something like that ought to be shared.)

Time for a theology lesson. You don't have to be a "Christian" to believe in "God".

 

[OttoMets]

Time for a theology lesson. You don't have to be a "Christian" to believe in "God".

One of many reasons I loved the quote.

 

[PhatOrange]

Bball coaches share stuff all the time in HS clinics, I dont fball coaches do it nearly as much. really though talking about what you see in a D to attack and also talking about how you would attack it are 2 different things.. I'm sure some of the stuff this offense does to expose and attack are things Dino does not really want to get out since his schemes are somewhat different than most. Maybe when the season is over the DO could get the coach to do a short story about his philosophy on sharing stuff with HS coaches that could clear up some of that mystery.

agreed. Dino holds his secret sauce close to the vest. Have no issue with it and thought that might be why he didn't talk offense at the clinic.

 

[Chip]

Further, based on the absolute disdain related towards Dino by Coach Martillotti, I'm willing to bet that the messages left for Dino regarding the JF situation were quite unpleasant. While I think Dino should have at least returned the guy's phone call, typically when someone leaves you an unpleasant message, there is no good that can come from extending the conversation (returning the phone call)..

With all the responsibilities of a college football head coach, if I received an angry voicemail from the high school coach of a player who isn't getting playing time, I immediately push the delete button.

 

[TheCusian]

IMO - College is about teaching young men and women accountability and independence. If a HS coach every called me to ask why one of my player wasn't in the lineup - I would tell that coach that if the player is that concerned about playing time, they should be teaching the student athlete to advocate for themselves. Just my opinion as a college coach. I'm sure Finwad would agree as well.

My wife works as an advisor at a college. Her number 1 complaint is kid's parents calling and advocating for the kid, when the kid should be advocating for themselves. It happens constantly and parents get upset from time to time.

 

[JackBauer44]

My wife works as an advisor at a college. Her number 1 complaint is kid's parents calling and advocating for the kid, when the kid should be advocating for themselves. It happens constantly and parents get upset from time to time.

I used to be an Athletic Academic Advisor at NC State. That's where my mantra comes from.

 

[TheCusian]

I used to be an Athletic Academic Advisor at NC State. That's where my mantra comes from.

Figured! It's a pretty common complaint. We've sworn off any of those kinds of calls when our young ones are that age. Sink or swim, lol.

I'm sure it's worse with D1 athletes.

 

[CA Monk]

Although the article purports to be a comprehensive look at SU's and Dino's relations with New York State football programs, we all know the centerpiece of the article (and what will be remembered) is the epithet aimed at coach. Any other interpretation is naive. If that quote didn't exist, the article probably never sees the light of day. The writer had the quote and fleshed out the article with other innocuous stuff. In any event, the DO is primarily a short-reach campus organ for the development of undergrads.

Additionally, P5 coaches and HS coaches are technically in the same business. However it's like the kid who drives a go-cart and teaches Social Studies on the side offering advice on how to maximize his engine to a guy who owns a Formula 1 race car.

Just my arm chair opinion here, but Fredericks was a talented runner who had difficulty (I surmise) pass catching, calling out plays at the line and pass blocking. I'm sure coach took corrective action to improve these areas and when improvement was not manifest he went with more reliable Strickland. He didn't want to have some time-sucking, amiable discussion with a HS coach (however well-intentioned) about a matter on which he's already decided on. If you do start having these discussions it's "Feed the cat once and..."

 

[dasher]

Although the article purports to be a comprehensive look at SU's and Dino's relations with New York State football programs, we all know the centerpiece of the article (and what will be remembered) is the epithet aimed at coach. Any other interpretation is naive. If that quote didn't exist, the article probably never sees the light of day. The writer had the quote and fleshed out the article with other innocuous stuff. In any event, the DO is primarily a short-reach campus organ for the development of undergrads.

Additionally, P5 coaches and HS coaches are technically in the same business. However it's like the kid who drives a go-cart and teaches Social Studies on the side offering advice on how to maximize his engin to a guy who owns a Formula 1 race car.

Just my arm chair opinion here, but Fredericks was a talented runner who had difficulty (I surmise) pass catching, calling out plays at the line and pass blocking. I'm sure coach took corrective action to improve these areas and when improvement was not manifest he went with more reliable Strickland. He didn't want to have some time-sucking, amiable discussion with a HS coach (however well-intentioned) about a matter on which he's already decided on. If you do start having these discussions it's "Feed the cat once and..."

I think you just nailed it.

 

[blizz]

I don't think most parents are going to care much about some "unfavorable" article from the DO. Hell, I didn't know the DO existed for close to a year after Steven enrolled.

I would agree in the sense that the DO isn't widely read. I'm simply saying if you didn't already know better how do you read that and not come away with a negative perception? How can that be considered fair?

 

[upperdeck]

My wife works as an advisor at a college. Her number 1 complaint is kid's parents calling and advocating for the kid, when the kid should be advocating for themselves. It happens constantly and parents get upset from time to time.

honestly i think thats passing the buck.. I expect the kids to learn to fight some battles, but when the kids hit a wall do you let them fail because they are kids.. most of the crap kids put up with at college are because they are kids and the college staff/admins dont really get concerned about an issue until it elevates to a certain level

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I thought the article was pretty fair. The one coach who had strong negative thoughts had Jordan Fredericks as a player in HS and if what he says is true (he tried repeatedly to reach out to Dino before Jordan made the decision to transfer), this is a legit beef with Coach Babers.

I get the feeling Dino doesn't want to talk about playing time issues with anyone except the players directly. I don't think this is a great way of handling things but there might well have been extenuating circumstances at play here that the writer was not aware of.

Just curious. Why do you think Babers should have talked about playing time with a kid's high school coach?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Many New York kids play in the Jersey parochial league so it skews the perception of New York. This was mentioned on an ESPN broadcast of the Don Bosco game the other night.

Speaking of Jersey parochial, pretty sure I saw Devito on the Bosco sideline during last Friday's Bergen-Bosco game...

 

[bigmike]

With all the responsibilities of a college football head coach, if I received an angry voicemail from the high school coach of a player who isn't getting playing time, I immediately push the delete button.

I couldn't agree more. Dino might not even know the call came in because someone on his staff pushed it.

 

[Orangepace]

honestly i think thats passing the buck.. I expect the kids to learn to fight some battles, but when the kids hit a wall do you let them fail because they are kids.. most of the crap kids put up with at college are because they are kids and the college staff/admins dont really get concerned about an issue until it elevates to a certain level

Old enough to cast a vote in an election, old enough to work through difficult situations independently. I understand JF calling his coach to ask for counsel, however, I don't understand that coach calling Dino on JF's behalf. A mature adult would advise a young adult, but should allow them to make mistakes and learn from them. Calling in reinforcements over a playing time issue shows a complete lack of maturity on behalf of JF and the coach.

 

[TheCusian]

honestly i think thats passing the buck.. I expect the kids to learn to fight some battles, but when the kids hit a wall do you let them fail because they are kids.. most of the crap kids put up with at college are because they are kids and the college staff/admins dont really get concerned about an issue until it elevates to a certain level

I can assure you that my wife can tell the difference, lol. If it's something that she can help with, she does. If she feels it's something the kid should do, she shares that too. All in a much more kind way than I would, obviously. I can't speak to the way schools fail on the whole - just that she does the best she can to sort it all out.

 

[Deano]

I don't think most parents are going to care much about some "unfavorable" article from the DO. Hell, I didn't know the DO existed for close to a year after Steven enrolled.

Just to change the subject a tad, but are Steven and his teammates pumped up for the game tonight as if they win they are bowl eligible?

 

[bigmike]

Old enough to cast a vote in an election, old enough to work through difficult situations independently. I understand JF calling his coach to ask for counsel, however, I don't understand that coach calling Dino on JF's behalf. A mature adult would advise a young adult, but should allow them to make mistakes and learn from them. Calling in reinforcements over a playing time issue shows a complete lack of maturity on behalf of JF and the coach.

While I am not entirely sure of the circumstances, I generally support this line of thinking. Unfortunately, to some the tone sounds like your grandfather saying:

 

[sutomcat]

Just curious. Why do you think Babers should have talked about playing time with a kid's high school coach?

First, if you believe the HS coach, it wasn't about playing time. It was about transferring.

The HS coach knows the player and his capabilities. He should have many contacts in college football. He is a good person to work with to try and find a new school to play at.

I would think Coach Babers would try and help any of his players who transfer out to find a home. That goes through direct conversations with the players and indirect ones through their HS coach, parents, and others that might play an important role in the player's life.

I acknowledge that Fredericks' HS coach gives every reason to think he would be difficult to deal with and I understand how Coach Babers might choose to ignore him.

But I think the best way to minimize the damage and close the chapter properly is do take a call and listen to what the coach has to say. If he already talked to Coach Babers and said his peace and just wanted another chance to drop some bombs, I have no problem with what happened.

If the HS coach is right, and Coach Babers just blew him off completely, it wasn't that cool in my book. Again, I am a big fan of Coach Babers. Just saying if the HS coach is telling the truth, he has a legitimate gripe IMHO.

If the HS coach is lying about this, he is really pathetic.

 

[Chip]

First, if you believe the HS coach, it wasn't about playing time. It was about transferring.

From the article, specifically Martillotti's conversation with Hart, it sounds like it was about playing time.

'Martillotti coached former SU running back Jordan Fredericks, who as a freshman under then-head coach Shafer in 2015, led Syracuse in rushing yards (607). Yet the next season, after the coaching change from Shafer to Babers, Fredericks found himself behind not just Dontae Strickland on the depth chart, but then-freshman Moe Neal as well. During that season, frustrated at a lack of playing time, Fredericks asked Martillotti to help him figure out what to do. So, Martillotti said, he called the football office.

After repeated calls and no answer from Babers, Martillotti said, he finally got in touch with Mike Hart, the then-running backs coach. Hart told him to speak with Babers, because Hart said he didn’t decide the starters. Syracuse’s head coaches before Babers, namely Doug Marrone and Shafer, had always returned Martillotti’s calls, he said. Yet, Babers did not and the situation became “standoffish,” Martillotti added.'

 

[jgeorge322]

Never said he should pad his roster with NYS kids. I don't want that; never did, never said that. No one wants that except maybe that crazy HS coach at Lawrence.

The recruits with the early offers each class are the priorities. If you pay attention to SU football recruiting, you will see that NYS kids are not getting early offers. Syracuse rarely is the first big school to offer them.

What I am saying is, each year, when the staff starts offering sophomores and juniors, it would be great to see some offers to NYS kids mixed in with all the early offers made to kids in states like Michigan and Florida. NYS produces 5 to 10 players each season that any program in the country would love to have.

That wouldve been a GREAT thing to mention in the article.

 

[RandomGuy]

Article cracked me up. Keep a contact list, and contact when necessary. I know some highschool coaches , that have told d1 colleges they have 10 kids for them to look at. Beyond delusional.

A coach calling to ask why his kid isn't being played? Cmon, man. The same reason you don't play a kid. Maybe you speak to his parents, to tell them there are 2 better options, but his old coach? Why bother. He's delusional if he doesn't know.

If a hs coach shows he's not delusional, and knows if a kid is actually a d1 prospect? Maybe he gets contacted a little more. The coaches that love all the kids, are less reliable.

As far as the recruits. In their own words, they've said cuse contacted them the most, and showed the most love. Frankly, winning over the kids Mom, is way more important than winning his HS coach.

 

[Crusty]

What sort of OL would you say he was running behind?

Absolutely nobody wanted to pick him up. Coaches don't think he is a P5 back.