The details of Rene / Spruill

[Ward]

Not that I think Rene and Spruill are 100% innocent by any means, but like many have said we've only heard one side. The P-S reports directly from the police report. I've heard from a couple people that Spruill is a pretty laid back guy, he's never gotten in trouble that we know of before, so I'd be curious to know what exactly triggered him to all of a sudden grab a police officer by the collar or whatever and start kicking doors. I know some will say there's no excuse never touch a cop, you're right you never should, but you also should never have to. I had a friend get slammed on the hood of a police car and chip a front tooth leaving downtown syracuse. The kid was drunk and made a wiseass comment but did nothing to deserve the physicality the police officer escalated it to. I mean the was walking away. So as someone said earlier Spruill may have seen his teammate who has an "upper body" injury that is serious being handled by police to an extent none of us know was necessary or how physical, and felt the need to grab the officer off Rene. There are good police and bad police, I'm nó sure which ones these police were yet, just like I'm not sure why Rene or Spruill were even in that position or doing what they did.

 

[SUFan44]

"Guilty until proven innocent." -rrlbees

Also might add that since the beginning of his second year, he has been incredibly consistent with his punishments. He has given kids second chances and kicked those kids off whose actions were severely criminal (Cater comes to mind).

Consistency is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Disappointing. That being said, I'd like to know more facts. I can imagine very few places north of dixie where being a young black man would be tougher than Syracuse, based on some of the stuff I've seen and words I have heard from seemingly normal people.

It usually comes out more in basketball season, where players like Cooney or GMac are given a lot more leeway than players like Scoop Jardine.

I haven't seen this leeway and I've been a season ticket holder for over 30 years. There were plenty of GMac haters - there was a reason Coach defended him after even the press said he was overrated. Scoop had critics but was really beloved in Syracuse. Check out the facts regarding the bidding at dinners where people donate money to have a certain player sit at their table - Scoop was always "the" coveted player and a definite fan favorite. No denying he had critics on some of his play at times but those amateur analysts thought that MCW or Dion deserved more time - certainly no racial issue there. Heck in fact I'd like to say depending on one's personal views that some would say that players like GMac, Forth, Rautins had to listen to just as much criticism from "normal" people. I don't think opinions are racially based at all - it's personal expectation based and to suggest otherwise is off-base.

 

[Cuse2010]

I haven't seen this leeway and I've been a season ticket holder for over 30 years. There were plenty of GMac haters - there was a reason Coach defended him after even the press said he was overrated. Scoop had critics but was really beloved in Syracuse. Check out the facts regarding the bidding at dinners where people donated money to have a certain player sit at their table - Scoop was always tops and a player that fans just loved. No denying he had critics on some of his play at times but those amateur analysts thought that MCW or Dion deserved more time - certainly no racial issue there. Heck in fact I'd like to say depending on one's personal views that some would say that players like GMac, Forth, Rautins had to listen to just as much criticism from "normal" people. I don't think opinions are racially based at all - it's expectation based and to suggest otherwise is really off-base.

But it is politically correct

 

[orangenirvana]

Just walk away, Rene.

For the kids who have no idea what this means...

 

[OrangeDW]

Obviously Rene's horrible judgement frequently on display when returning kicks extends to off the field decisions as well.

I don't rip on college football players that suck, typically. I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are decent kids who are doing their best and can't really help their suckiness.

But when they suck, AND give the program a bad rep off the field AND cost us a starting LB who doesn't suck, I get annoyed.

 

[qdawgg]

It usually comes out more in basketball season, where players like Cooney or GMac are given a lot more leeway than players like Scoop Jardine.

Gmac was given leeway because of what he did his freshman year and what that team did overall. Forth on the other hand was crushed his entire career. Waiters was jumped on for acting like an idiot and when he finally got it last year he was treated like the greatest thing in the world - rightly so.

I think your seeing something the way you want and not the way it is. I do agree with you though, people in upstate NY throw around the race jokes and comments like it's no big deal.

 

[OrangeDW]

Disappointing. That being said, I'd like to know more facts. Being a young AA man can be hard here, based on some of the stuff I've seen and words I have heard from seemingly normal people.

It usually comes out more in basketball season, where players like Cooney or GMac are given a lot more leeway than players like Scoop Jardine.

Or when players like Craig Forth and Troy Nunes are booed, as everyone screams for the legendary Jeremy McNeil and RJ Anderson to be put in, instead.

You're wrong.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

That was gold. Even more impressed now that I see you are from NJ...

A suburban Cuse boy by birth led astray by a Jersey girl.

 

[rrlbees]

"Guilty until proven innocent." -rrlbees

Also might add that since the beginning of his second year, he has been incredibly consistent with his punishments. He has given kids second chances and kicked those kids off whose actions were severely criminal (Cater comes to mind).

Consistency is in the eye of the beholder.

Like I said, I am going by the reported police report. If you want to say the PS or the cops are lying, knock yourself out. Therefore you must think there is a chance Spruill didn't grab a cop or continue to be out of control in the van. That can be your opinion. Mine is it miust have happened. If it didn't, I guess some cops will be going to jail for false reporting.

Also nice that you qualify a timeframe for kids being kicked off for indiscretions.

 

[Cuse2010]

Like I said, I am going by the reported police report. If you want to say the PS or the cops are lying, knock yourself out. Therefore you must think there is a chance Spruill didn't grab a cop or continue to be out of control in the van. That can be your opinion. Mine is it miust have happened. If it didn't, I guess some cops will be going to jail for false reporting.

Also nice that you qualify a timeframe for kids being kicked off for indiscretions.

Police reports give details that prove your guilt and tend to leave out that what may clear you

 

[Cuse_MN]

Or when players like Craig Forth and Troy Nunes are booed, as everyone screams for the legendary Jeremy McNeil and RJ Anderson to be put in, instead.

You're wrong.

SU doesn't win the nat'l championship in '03 without McNeil. He was 'legendary' as the guy in the back of the press and his ability to play that role helped us come back in a couple games during the tourney.

Broadly speaking, there is clearly still racism in our society. Given SU fans are simply a sample of society, how can anyone say its wrong to imply there could be racial undertones in some criticism. I'm a white dude in his 40s. Just during the past few months I crossed paths with well-educated family types who made me cringe by stating they wouldn't vote for a certain presidential candidate b/c of the color of his skin. I'm not stating I know of what the guy who posted on the race topic happening as it relates to leeway or the comments he referenced hearing, but sure seems naive to state emphatically it doesn't.

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[SUFan44]

Like I said, I am going by the reported police report. If you want to say the PS or the cops are lying, knock yourself out. Therefore you must think there is a chance Spruill didn't grab a cop or continue to be out of control in the van. That can be your opinion. Mine is it miust have happened. If it didn't, I guess some cops will be going to jail for false reporting.

Also nice that you qualify a timeframe for kids being kicked off for indiscretions.

I'm not pretending I know anything, or am I saying that anyone is lying. I do, however, know how these reports come out - and how the details that are reported aren't always a) exactly what happened, and b) what they seem to be. Which is why I'm not as quick to judge on these things as certain people.

Did they do something wrong? Absolutely. No question about that. Should they be punished? Yes. But who are we to sit here and say they should be thrown out of school and basically out on the streets? I'm certainly not one to judge, as I've done some pretty stupid things in my life that I'm not proud of.

Also, yes I did qualify the time frame because a first-year head coach has to set the tone for a program. Especially when it is a losing program. You can go ahead and believe whatever you want about what he did the first year, "running" kids off the team. But for whatever the reasons, kids left the program. It happens nearly EVERYWHERE when there's a coaching change.

Since then, he has been incredibly consistent. If he were not consistent, you'd see a lot more dysfunction and chaos amongst the team in a lot of different areas, including on the field. And I'd argue that this year we have seen the exact opposite - very little chaos and a lot of harmony, which can come only from a consistent message being delivered from the top.

 

[Cuse_MN]

Like I said, I am going by the reported police report. If you want to say the PS or the cops are lying, knock yourself out. Therefore you must think there is a chance Spruill didn't grab a cop or continue to be out of control in the van. That can be your opinion. Mine is it miust have happened. If it didn't, I guess some cops will be going to jail for false reporting.

Also nice that you qualify a timeframe for kids being kicked off for indiscretions.

So if he kicked the door b/c he was frustrated at himself for getting into the situation, you still have the same opinion? Plenty of examples of athletes punching walls, etc. out of frustration. Your arguments are contradictory as you've been arguing they lied about the true nature of his actions by 'letting him off easy' on the charges. If he grabbed a cop as violently as you are suggesting and was out of control in the van, don't you agree they did lie by not charging him with a crime?

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[Orange&Blue44]

SU doesn't win the nat'l championship in '03 without McNeil. He was 'legendary' as the guy in the back of the press and his ability to play that role helped us come back in a couple games during the tourney.

Broadly speaking, there is clearly still racism in our society. Given SU fans are simply a sample of society, how can anyone say its wrong to imply there could be racial undertones in some criticism. I'm a white dude in his 40s. Just during the past few months I crossed paths with well-educated family types who made me cringe by stating they wouldn't vote for a certain presidential candidate b/c of the color of his skin. I'm not stating I know of what the guy who posted on the race topic happening as it relates to leeway or the comments he referenced hearing, but sure seems naive to state emphatically it doesn't.

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They wouldn't vote for Romney?

 

[rrlbees]

So if he kicked the door b/c he was frustrated at himself for getting into the situation, you still have the same opinion? Plenty of examples of athletes punching walls, etc. out of frustration. Your arguments are contradictory as you've been arguing they lied about the true nature of his actions by 'letting him off easy' on the charges. If he grabbed a cop as violently as you are suggesting and was out of control in the van, don't you agree they did lie by not charging him with a crime?

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I said they let him off easy. You don't put your hands on a cop. I inivite you too to go sit on a corner and wait for it to happen and see what happens.

 

[OrangeDW]

SU doesn't win the nat'l championship in '03 without McNeil. He was 'legendary' as the guy in the back of the press and his ability to play that role helped us come back in a couple games during the tourney.

Broadly speaking, there is clearly still racism in our society. Given SU fans are simply a sample of society, how can anyone say its wrong to imply there could be racial undertones in some criticism.

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I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just responding to this thread as I see it. Unless something was deleted, I have no idea where Scoopadelphia was coming from, based on this thread.

And I fully agree on McNeil, I was one of those screaming for him to come in frequently(no, I didn't boo Forth) and he was the best I've ever seen at defending the basket on the press. Just pointing out some heavily criticized white SU athletes(add Matt Roe to the list), and pointing out that I think SU fans generally want who they see as the better players on the court/field.

When fans thought Marinovich was being a moron off the field a few years ago, they reacted the same way they are in this thread.

 

[OrangeHeel]

If he grabbed a cop as violently as you are suggesting and was out of control in the van, don't you agree they did lie by not charging him with a crime?

1. You're seriously understating the seriousness of a violation if you equate it to a traffic ticket. While not technically a crime, it is defined in the Penal Law. Also, if convicted it does appear on the rap sheets I review. Finally, if you ever apply for a professional license, you won't be explaining that traffic ticket; you will be explaining that violation.

2. It's not inconsistent with the facts that he was only arrested for a violation. NY does not have simple assault or battery. You have to cause a "physical injury" to get arrested for assault. He wasn't resisting prior to his arrest. He was closest to Obstructing Governmental Administration. Good discretion to not overcharge.

3. As the son of a criminal investigator & a prosecutor myself, it fries my rear when people insinuate that the cop was wrong. My experience is that this is a very, very rare occurrence in our area & usual the get out of jail card played by the guilty. When this is offered up to me, my response is simple: Go sue & meanwhile we will see how your criminal trial goes first.



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[OrangeHeel]

To be clear, referencing Spruill.


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[cto]

Just walk away, Rene.

One of the funniest posts ever.

 

[Cuse_MN]

1. You're seriously understating the seriousness of a violation if you equate it to a traffic ticket. While not technically a crime, it is defined in the Penal Law. Also, if convicted it does appear on the rap sheets I review. Finally, if you ever apply for a professional license, you won't be explaining that traffic ticket; you will be explaining that violation.

2. It's not inconsistent with the facts that he was only arrested for a violation. NY does not have simple assault or battery. You have to cause a "physical injury" to get arrested for assault. He wasn't resisting prior to his arrest. He was closest to Obstructing Governmental Administration. Good discretion to not overcharge.

3. As the son of a criminal investigator & a prosecutor myself, it fries my rear when people insinuate that the cop was wrong. My experience is that this is a very, very rare occurrence in our area & usual the get out of jail card played by the guilty. When this is offered up to me, my response is simple: Go sue & meanwhile we will see how your criminal trial goes first.



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1. I am not an attorney but know this well as I had to deal with it personally. Violations are automatically sealed. DCJS does not report violations to background checking firms, or any sealed record for that matter. I have applied for and have professional licenses and have a disorderly conduct. You certainly can't be implying disorderly conduct while in college will have much impact on anyone's career choice. I'm in the financial industry. It doesn't have to be disclosed on a U-4 for registration with FINRA, nor as a CFA... further any job application that asks if you've been charged with a crime, the correct answer in no. I've had FBI background checks done and ran DCJS reports on myself and its not disclosed, although when you run a DCJS report on yourself it will note sealed arrests, but not for anyone else running the report. Complete non-event for me professionally.

http://www.reentry.net/ny/search/attachment.185116

2. We are talking about a d-1 linebacker. If he got physical with a cop, they could have found some form of injury to meet the thresholds for article 120 charges. Hell if he scratched the cop, caused him to have a sore back, anything like that would have met the criteria. Apparently none of that happened based on the charges. As you are stating, touching a cop by itself may not be a crime. Certainly not stating it should be done.


3. I'm not implying the cop was wrong. It is a technicality, but violations aren't crimes and that is what he was charged with. Your 'go sue' comment is maddening from the perspective of a guy who has been embroiled in a civil case. Most people don't have the resources to sue, nor is it anything that is remotely quick (one side can delay forever as I am seeing), nor easy, so the system is set up to prevent people from seeking relief if there has been an injustice. I've watched a corporate attorney perjure himself recently both in interrogatories and in a deposition, backed by written discovery, who then when on to make numerous, substantial changes on the errata sheet, further tainting the testimony. When I asked my attorney if there was any recourse, he stated that he sees perjury in virtually every case he litigates and most plaintiffs/defendants and lawyers litigating civil cases know nobody is going to waste resources going after perjury, so its done often. So if its expensive, lengthy and parties can lie, is it really helpful to tell most people to go sue?

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[kirbivore]

There's got to be video of this somewhere. Kids that age all have the cell phone video ready to go at any altercation.

 

[Eric15]

Ugh - this sucks. Who can be possibly get to be as dynamic and electric of a kick returner as Steve Rene is? I've got it! Is ANYONE ELSE available?

 

[Noexcuse]

Sounds like the best thing Spruill has going for him is he hasn't been in trouble before (as far as we know). The punishment will likely not go beyond the Pinstripe Bowl and Spring practice if that's the case. He will have to go before the SU Judicial Board though.

 

[SmilinBob]

The cops asked Rene to put his hands behind his back and he probably raised his hand for a fair catch instead, thus the ruckus. Just a misunderstanding.