"The Dome roof"

[reedny]

There are symbiotic relationship between universities and corporations. Xerox and Kodak had one with the U of Rochester.

But beyond these, corporate managers are very wary about Universities. And that's because experience has shown them that these entities always have their hands out. They are supremely ignorant of the Corporate world and see corporations as just another source of money. Where that money comes from, how hard it is to make and what other competing places it might be spent is of little interest to them.

We used to joke about the "Education Industry handshake" That's the one in which the arm is extended with the hand at the end with it's palm up. They wanted money, free equipment, price breaks, jobs for their graduates, internships, research contracts.

We handled that by setting up a separate entity, a Foundation, that could give grants, etc, and prohibiting the operating groups from doing this.

Funny that's exactly how most people view corporations: obsessed with profit and extremely ignorant of the social consequences of their policies.

 

[Townie72]

Funny that's exactly how most people view corporations.

Yup.

Too much watching of Hollywood's version of corporations and not enough exposure to the real thing.

Greedy imaginary corporations are the enemy. There's only so many vampire movies you can make.

 

[xc84]

The number you need to worry about is how much they'll take for it, not what it is worth to them.

I doubt if they have anything but a foggy idea what is worth to them. If I were them I'd take a guess on what SU could sell it for and ask for half of that number. Seems Fair. SU makes money and Carrier makes money.

Another approach would be to inflate the 2.5 million 1980 dollars into 2018 dollars. Or to assume it was a loan and add the interest SU would have had to pay.

I don’t have to worry about any number. I think they should give it away and they might. What they paid in 1980 has nothing to do with what it is worth now. I am surprised you would make such a novice suggestion. You are suggesting $40M which is funny considering you said it is not worth much. I am out after that. We’ll see how it works out.

 

[CuseOnly]

Because I am pretty convinced this won't happen, I will wait until it comes.

This is just an idea floated by people who want a grand new facility and are trying to brainstorm ideas on how to get the money.

This is a pipe dream.

"Friends are Friends but business is business!"

Period.

 

[Townie72]

No need to listen to "Hollywood" ... the "silo" view of corporate decision-making is represented in your posts. All profit and no social responsibility, as though goods and services are sold in a vacuum rather than a community.

Your view of "social responsibility" is naive.

Corporations meet their social responsibility by providing goods and services, employment, returns to investors, and taxes.

There is no responsibility to give away money because SU fans want a nicer sports venue.

 

[Townie72]

I don’t have to worry about any number. I think they should give it away and they might. What they paid in 1980 has nothing to do with what it is worth now. I am surprised you would make such a novice suggestion. You are suggesting $40M which is funny considering you said it is not worth much. I am out after that. We’ll see how it works out.

Of course you want them to give it away. Because you see yourself as one of the beneficiaries.

 

[xc84]

Of course you want them to give it away. Because you see yourself as one of the beneficiaries.

You say it is worth little then suggest SU pays upwards of $40M. You are all over the place. Yes, of course I want Carrier to give it away. SU is the beneficiary and I guess me as a fan to some extent. I am ok with that.

 

[CuseOnly]

There are symbiotic relationship between universities and corporations. Xerox and Kodak had one with the U of Rochester.

But beyond these, corporate managers are very wary about Universities. And that's because experience has shown them that these entities always have their hands out. They are supremely ignorant of the Corporate world and see corporations as just another source of money. Where that money comes from, how hard it is to make and what other competing places it might be spent is of little interest to them.

We used to joke about the "Education Industry handshake" That's the one in which the arm is extended with the hand at the end with it's palm up. They wanted money, free equipment, price breaks, jobs for their graduates, internships, research contracts.

We handled that by setting up a separate entity, a Foundation, that could give grants, etc, and prohibiting the operating groups from doing this.

How's that Xerox and Kodak relationship now?

Seems to have outlived it's usefulness.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Oh, I think Carrier would gladly sell for the right number. It would be a windfall for them.

And it would be less than what some other corporation might pay. But it couldn't seem like a give-away that the stockholders and business press would howl about. Corporate managers do not like criticism.

(I can hear the internal Carrier grousing now, "Top management cut our bonuses but gave a university a sweetheart deal")

I have not heard of a single suggested purchaser for the Name rights that is close to plausible.

Well Ephesus Lightning could be a player if they get the bid to do the lights in the building. They’re a huge name, local company

 

[reedny]

Your view of "social responsibility" is naive.

Corporations meet their social responsibility by providing goods and services, employment, returns to investors, and taxes.

There is no responsibility to give away money because SU fans want a nicer sports venue.

Red herring. SU fans want to see the program succeed, but the facility is much bigger than the basketball team -- there are many other sports teams that play there (interscholastic events, for example), along with public concerts, academic conferences, commencement exercises, etc.. You can try to belittle those who support a Dome recap by calling them selfish or minimizing what SU contributes to the local community, but it's not a coherent position. SU provides 5,000+jobs, 300M payroll and $1B annually to the regional economy. Those are big numbers anywhere, and in central NY, they're the economic life blood.

At the end of the day, I don't think your one-sided view of corporate responsibility will even be brought up in the SU-Carrier negotiations because it's a loser.

 

[Townie72]

Red herring. SU fans want to see the program succeed, but the facility is much bigger than the basketball team -- there are many other sports teams that play there (interscholastic events, for example), along with public concerts, academic conferences, commencement exercises, etc.. You can try to belittle those who support a Dome recap by calling them selfish or minimizing what SU contributes to the local community, but it's not a coherent position. SU provides 5,000+jobs, 300M payroll and $1B annually to the regional economy. Those are big numbers anywhere, and in central NY, they're the economic life blood.

At the end of the day, I don't think your one-sided view of corporate responsibility will even be brought up in the SU-Carrier negotiations because it's a loser.

Watch what happens.

Most likely very little.

The money just isn’t there.

And if the Dome is renamed it will because they bought Carrier out.

 

[xc84]

Watch what happens.

Most likely very little.

The money just isn’t there.

And if the Dome is renamed it will because they bought Carrier out.

You are mixing up too many things. Naming right income, to me, has very little to do with whether they have money for renovations. Even the best case annual cashflow estimates for naming rights are less than 1% of reno costs. What are you saying won’t happen because the “money is not there”? Naming rights are a separate issue. SU would only buy out if the price is below market. Otherwise it would make no sense.

 

[Townie72]

You are mixing up too many things. Naming right income, to me, has very little to do with whether they have money for renovations. Even the best case annual cashflow estimates for naming rights are less than 1% of reno costs. What are you saying won’t happen because the “money is not there”? Naming rights are a separate issue. SU would only buy out if the price is below market. Otherwise it would make no sense.

If all they do is replace the roof then there's absolutely no argument it being the Carrier Dome.

If they think they can find a buyer, they ought to offer Carrier half what they can get and effectively split the profit with them.

There is no reason that Carrier should give the name away.

I still haven't heard a credible buyer suggested.

 

[TheCusian]

There are symbiotic relationship between universities and corporations. Xerox and Kodak had one with the U of Rochester.

But beyond these, corporate managers are very wary about Universities. And that's because experience has shown them that these entities always have their hands out. They are supremely ignorant of the Corporate world and see corporations as just another source of money. Where that money comes from, how hard it is to make and what other competing places it might be spent is of little interest to them.

We used to joke about the "Education Industry handshake" That's the one in which the arm is extended with the hand at the end with it's palm up. They wanted money, free equipment, price breaks, jobs for their graduates, internships, research contracts.

We handled that by setting up a separate entity, a Foundation, that could give grants, etc, and prohibiting the operating groups from doing this.

Yeah, so weird that a place geared to higher learning wouldn’t understand weird corporate capitalism.

They are at cross purposes, in a lot of ways. I just wouldn’t describe one in such glowing terms as the other.

 

[sutomcat]

If all they do is replace the roof then there's absolutely no argument it being the Carrier Dome.

If they think they can find a buyer, they ought to offer Carrier half what they can get and effectively split the profit with them.

There is no reason that Carrier should give the name away.

I still haven't heard a credible buyer suggested.

While replacing the existing roof with another just like it is an option, my understanding is that it is very unlikely and with the success the university has had raising money to date, it is not under serious consideration.

The fixed roof options under consideration require building new walls to support the new roof. They will have to build a new building over the existing one. Carrier understands this will void the original agreement and is working with SU to ensure the new building will continue to feature the Carrier name. Both sides benefited from the original agreement and both want to continue to work with each other long term. Townie will be glad to know the university is acting honorably, as is Carrier.

Have a little faith.

 

[MSOrange]

While replacing the existing roof with another just like it is an option, my understanding is that it is very unlikely and with the success the university has had raising money to date, it is not under serious consideration.

The fixed roof options under consideration require building new walls to support the new roof. They will have to build a new building over the existing one. Carrier understands this will void the original agreement and is working with SU to ensure the new building will continue to feature the Carrier name. Both sides benefited from the original agreement and both want to continue to work with each other long term. Townie will be glad to know the university is acting honorably, as is Carrier.

Have a little faith.

Success raising money - I think that's the first I have heard of that, but that's very encouraging.

 

[xc84]

If all they do is replace the roof then there's absolutely no argument it being the Carrier Dome.

If they think they can find a buyer, they ought to offer Carrier half what they can get and effectively split the profit with them.

There is no reason that Carrier should give the name away.

I still haven't heard a credible buyer suggested.

What are you saying won’t happen because the “money is not there”?

 

[Alsacs]

If you do a renovation you can rename a facility.
Carrier has Perpetuity rights to the name at the current Dome.

Notre Dame years ago renovated the Joyce Center. The facility was rebranded Purcell Pavilion.
Notre Dame Plans Joyce Center Arena Renovation

If we get a new Dome roof then Carrier will either pay a new amount of money or it will get a new name.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think the name of the building is the least important or interesting thing about the entire project, but somehow that has generated probably 50% of the comments.

 

[HtownOrange]

If I recall, SU and Carrier have the framework for a continued deal that included Carrier supplying the AC equipment and $ going forward to preserve the naming rights and SU playing honorably and not demanding full market value. Both win, neither is screwed and the two remain partners for a much longer time.

All too often, people believe that maximum benefit is attained by dealing with the here and now only and no look towards the future, like a buying a car. In reality, long term relationships generally allow partners to grow more and together, luring business to each other, even though the two partners are not maximizing a single deal between them. Individually, we do this all the time by stopping at a favored coffee shop or bakery or restaurant or other business we favor.

Besides, cultivating new relationships takes much work in itself, why waste the effort to screw over a long term partner (trading one partner for another) when you can add the new relationship to the network?

 

[xc84]

If you do a renovation you can rename a facility.
Carrier has Perpetuity rights to the name at the current Dome.

Notre Dame years ago renovated the Joyce Center. The facility was rebranded Purcell Pavilion.
Notre Dame Plans Joyce Center Arena Renovation

If we get a new Dome roof then Carrier will either pay a new amount of money or it will get a new name.

The name "Joyce" was in honor of a ND priest...not from a donation agreement. It was just an honor. Not really applicable to our situation. The name "Joyce Center" is also still the name:

"The double-domed Joyce Center is home to the Fighting Irish basketball and volleyball teams in the newly renovated Purcell Pavilion and the Notre Dame hockey team in the field house. Gyms for fencing, boxing, and other sports are scattered throughout the facility. The center also plays host to campus-wide events such as Commencement, the Opening Day Mass, and Junior Parents Weekend activities. The building houses coaches and administrators’ offices, locker rooms, and, on the concourse, the Sports Heritage Hall of Fame."

The Joyce Center // Campus Tour // University of Notre Dame

 

[xc84]

I think the name of the building is the least important or interesting thing about the entire project, but somehow that has generated probably 50% of the comments.

It's true. The renovation project is in no way contingent on a re-name. The dollars are too small relative to the overall cost of the renovation.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think the name of the building is the least important or interesting thing about the entire project, but somehow that has generated probably 50% of the comments.

Winner! The real issue is modernizing the Dome. We all agree on that. Naming rights, stream of revenue, honor, etc., are all emotional issues with which we take umbrage. While each point is valid (new money, honor, increased football spending, integrity) each of is individually places more emphasis on this point or that.

Of course, once the final plans are announced, we will begin fighting over the specific details while missing the point that improvements are on the way and with out a billionaire footing the bill, we simply will not get everything we each want.

 

[Alsacs]

The name "Joyce" was in honor of a ND priest...not from a donation agreement. It was just an honor. Not really applicable to our situation. The name "Joyce Center" is also still the name:

"The double-domed Joyce Center is home to the Fighting Irish basketball and volleyball teams in the newly renovated Purcell Pavilion and the Notre Dame hockey team in the field house. Gyms for fencing, boxing, and other sports are scattered throughout the facility. The center also plays host to campus-wide events such as Commencement, the Opening Day Mass, and Junior Parents Weekend activities. The building houses coaches and administrators’ offices, locker rooms, and, on the concourse, the Sports Heritage Hall of Fame."

The Joyce Center // Campus Tour // University of Notre Dame

I get your point but the place where ND plays basketball is called Purcell Pavilion now.
Joyce wasn’t a corporate sponsor but it was the name of the place.

Good post though.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Winner! The real issue is modernizing the Dome. We all agree on that. Naming rights, stream of revenue, honor, etc., are all emotional issues with which we take umbrage. While each point is valid (new money, honor, increased football spending, integrity) each of is individually places more emphasis on this point or that.

Of course, once the final plans are announced, we will begin fighting over the specific details while missing the point that improvements are on the way and with out a billionaire footing the bill, we simply will not get everything we each want.

Just as long as we have actual seats with seat backs, bigger concourses, nicer rest rooms and better concessions. Anything beyond that is gravy.