The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read

[Bayside44]

Interesting read. Not sure if I like it or not, but it's his ship.

The two points that bothered are it seems that moving in with the coaches can lead to micromanaging which tends to go over poorly. And frankly he needs to get out and sell the program and get money in the door if they want nice stuff for their players. This isn't the NFL, coaches selling to donors and prospective donors is part of the job.

 

[oldpinepoint]

From what someone associated with the team told me, he's found he needs to lighten up big time. And that need to change was brought to him by the players themselves. He's trying much harder to chill out and build stronger relationships with his players.

I really hope this is true, a good coach and leader can adapt and change to best suit his team.

 

[JeremyCuse]

From what someone associated with the team told me, he's found he needs to lighten up big time. And that need to change was brought to him by the players themselves. He's trying much harder to chill out and build stronger relationships with his players.

That sounds similar to what I heard Lemoyne, also Marrone apparently got the message in the offseason that while the seat is far from hot, the honeymoon is over.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I really hope this is true, a good coach and leader can adapt and change to best suit his team.

A couple of athletes (not football) that I TA for in Newhouse told me everyone does an exit interview at the end of their respective seasons. From what I've heard and assume, the players were pretty clear that the coach needed to lighten up. He apparently got the message.

 

[oldpinepoint]

A couple of athletes (not football) that I TA for in Newhouse told me everyone does an exit interview at the end of their respective seasons. From what I've heard and assume, the players were pretty clear that the coach needed to lighten up. He apparently got the message.

Interesting... good stuff! Thanks for sharing with the board!

 

[Orangetradition44]

Marrone has already come out and said fan support is one of the top 1 or 2 issues with recruiting. The bus tour was HIS idea from HIS plan. He himself said one of his main goals is bringing the community together and getting more fans to come out to the games.

Just sounds like he's decided that he's no longer in this to build the program. I just hope his abandonment of the management of the program and full focus on "coaching" get him the results he's looking for.

Yea, that was the dumbest statement in there. I will tell you what, all the things that have happened and decisions made over the past year only tells us that the school and the program have decided the fans don't matter. That's too bad because every good program needs its fans. It's a vicious circle, the less fans come out, the less the school cares about the fans, which leads to the fans caring less, etc etc. Really stupid. So if the program fails, they can then say it is the fans fault.

 

[007]

Interesting read. Not sure if I like it or not, but it's his ship.

The two points that bothered are it seems that moving in with the coaches can lead to micromanaging which tends to go over poorly. And frankly he needs to get out and sell the program and get money in the door if they want nice stuff for their players. This isn't the NFL, coaches selling to donors and prospective donors is part of the job.

I agree 100% with the need to sell the program. But, I also think that DM was stunned that his team was not more competitive last year. Even though he recognizes the lack of depth and talent, I have to believe that banked on his vision, schemes and coaching to bridge the gap to "competing for the BE title" last season.

At the end of the day, this is still his first experience as a head coach. He must now adapt his vision to the reality of the lack of success on the field.

He is going "all in" next season, IMO. Everything else will be secondary.

 

[Franz69]

From what someone associated with the team told me, he's found he needs to lighten up big time. And that need to change was brought to him by the players themselves. He's trying much harder to chill out and build stronger relationships with his players.

DM should read this story about Tom Coughlin. It worked for Coach Coughlin in how he relates to players, so hopefully it will work for Doug.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...s-rb-charles-way-got-tom-coughlin-right-track

 

[kcsu]

Is Doug serious? I mean saying that we need more big plays and that we need to stop giving up so many big plays Duh..... As to his control, micro management style of coaching it is what it is and will always be this way so he might as well jump in with both feet and move upstairs with the other coaches. I hope that he focuses on play calling. Constantly putting your QB in second or third and long situations because you run off tackle 80% of the time on first down is something that i hope is addressed. As to the QB running I would think that Doug would have known that formula from his days on the Hill. Playing 10 on 11 is never a good formula for success especially when you dont have the luxury of being more talented than your opponent although i believe he has been so worried about Ryan being injured that has played more into it than anything. This is a huge year for him and our program. Lets hope the kids rally behind him with a new positive attitude and that we have that break out year.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Yea, that was the dumbest statement in there. I will tell you what, all the things that have happened and decisions made over the past year only tells us that the school and the program have decided the fans don't matter. That's too bad because every good program needs its fans. It's a vicious circle, the less fans come out, the less the school cares about the fans, which leads to the fans caring less, etc etc. Really stupid. So if the program fails, they can then say it is the fans fault.

I think I agree with you but what it really comes down to is wins. If the team starts winning yearly the fans will come back. They didn't come back this past year, and they won't until SU consistently wins. Maybe the admin has said "doesn't matter how fan friendly we are, they won't come unless we win." When you say they have become less fan friendly, do you mean the Orange Club? Frankly that's such a small percentage of fans (and typically the most rabid) that it doesn't surprise me one bit if the thinking is "they'll be here because they are rabid, the only way we get back the fringe fans is to win." If that thinking is used, it's an easy jump to "recruiting events aren't important, doing everything to get prepared for spring ball is." In his mind, more prep, and more work means potentially a better team, which in turn means more fans down the road.

You're right it is a vicious circle, but they do offer $100 ticket packages at a BCS school that people still don't get. What people around Syracuse want is a winner, until then "fan friendly" doesn't really mean much because there are no fans to be friendly to.

Perfect example is the basketball team, they can treat fans like and they'd still get 33,000 because they win, all the time. That's the only cure unfortunately, and it sounds like the administration believes that more time towards recruiting, prepping for spring ball, etc... is more important than talking to fans about the new recruits.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Interesting read. Not sure if I like it or not, but it's his ship.

The two points that bothered are it seems that moving in with the coaches can lead to micromanaging which tends to go over poorly. And frankly he needs to get out and sell the program and get money in the door if they want nice stuff for their players. This isn't the NFL, coaches selling to donors and prospective donors is part of the job.

Chicken or the egg here, in your second sentence. Tough to sell something when it's perceived as . They tried this the first couple of years and what has it got them? I wonder if he has decided that winning needs to come first, and the only way to win is that he puts more time in with coaches, players, etc... Win, and it fixes everything.

 

[OrangePA]

From what someone associated with the team told me, he's found he needs to lighten up big time. And that need to change was brought to him by the players themselves. He's trying much harder to chill out and build stronger relationships with his players.

It seems that I hear that about a lot of HCs whose won-loss records are suffering or it's just the opposite. He's either too tough or too lax.

Tom Coughlin was too tough. Greg Robinson was too lax.

My feeling last year was that the team was not tough enough - not physical enough - not emotional enough.

I figured that Marrone had taken his foot off the pedal from 2009.

Who really knows.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Yea, that was the dumbest statement in there. I will tell you what, all the things that have happened and decisions made over the past year only tells us that the school and the program have decided the fans don't matter. That's too bad because every good program needs its fans. It's a vicious circle, the less fans come out, the less the school cares about the fans, which leads to the fans caring less, etc etc. Really stupid. So if the program fails, they can then say it is the fans fault.

Can you give some examples? In general, I dont agree, but I dont attend games and events at the same rate you do.

 

[Orangetradition44]

Football is an emotional sport. I agree with you that the team could have been tougher. But I don't agree that it was a result of Marrone easing up... I actually think the opposite.

His comments about coaching specials helping him be able to coach ALL the players on the team tells me that his players simply don't relate to him, and he knows it. His hardass, all business demeanor might work in the pros, but at the college level, you need to like your teammates and coaches... You need to WANT to lay it all on the field for them.

I get the feeling that Marrone barely talks to his players about anything other than football.

It seems that I hear that about a lot of HCs whose won-loss records are suffering or it's just the opposite. He's either too tough or too lax.

Tom Coughlin was too tough. Greg Robinson was too lax.

My feeling last year was that the team was not tough enough - not physical enough - not emotional enough.

I figured that Marrone had taken his foot off the pedal from 2009.

Who really knows.

 

[oldpinepoint]

It seems that I hear that about a lot of HCs whose won-loss records are suffering or it's just the opposite. He's either too tough or too lax.

Tom Coughlin was too tough. Greg Robinson was too lax.

My feeling last year was that the team was not tough enough - not physical enough - not emotional enough.

I figured that Marrone had taken his foot off the pedal from 2009.

Who really knows.

I think players follow the lead of their coaches or at least i did when i played. If you have a head coach who looks pissed, unemotional or just doesn't get excited i think it hurts the chemistry of the team and the desire of those players. DM never looks like he enjoys being a coach. Dude needs a vacation and to get excited for once. Maybe just a smile.

 

[Orangetradition44]

Can you give some examples? In general, I dont agree, but I dont attend games and events at the same rate you do.

A few off the top of my head...
Not holding any events worth a damn for Ernie Davis members
slowly removing parking near dome
Moving all marquee games to Giants Stadium

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Could

A few off the top of my head...
Not holding any events worth a damn for Ernie Davis members
slowly removing parking near dome
Moving all marquee games to Giants Stadium

the third one be directly related to fundraising? Most of our wealthiest alumni are in the NYC area, not Syracuse. Moving games down there and hob-nobbing with these people would help with fundraising no?

 

[rosconey]

a real big yawn-

marrone said nothing but average coach speak with a screw you fans thrown in for shnits and giggles-

that bus tour is the whole reason he had a 5 game meltdown-yawn-

fan fast takes so much time -yawn yawn

just cheap excuses -no real substance in that story

wow -we need more big plays on offense and less on defense-rocket science i say rocket science-

 

[Orangetradition44]

Which is greater i wonder... 40k people in the dome or 10k at giant stadium + donations.

And I do understand the fundraising side, but I was just listing a recent anti-fan decision from the AD.

Could

the third one be directly related to fundraising? Most of our wealthiest alumni are in the NYC area, not Syracuse. Moving games down there and hob-nobbing with these people would help with fundraising no?

 

[orangepassion]

Very enlightening article.
My few thoughts FWIW:
* Like it or not, casual fans are coming to see if there's a good product, they don't care whether the Coach spends time shmoozing with the diehards or not.
*I'm still of the belief that the Defense is the least of our problems by far, as it's been fairly good 2 of Marrone's 3 years, as opposed to Offense and Special teams, which have been bad all 3 years.
*Marrone coaching Special teams could be a great move if he uses it as a weapon like other teams and doesn't just try to minimize mistakes. I distinctly remember SU getting called for roughing the kicker when trying to block a punt and Marrone blaming himself for "taking the game out of the player's hands". I don't believe he went for a block again the rest of the year. IMO, the problem in that play wasn't the call, rather the execution. If there's one thing we can learn from RU, it's Special Teams. I'll take a couple of roughing the kickers in exchange for several blocked punts/kicks. You can't get gun-shy-need to keep teaching the guys the proper ways to do it until they can get confidence that they will block kicks. There's no reason we can't. Marrone has to be willing to lay it on the line there and be a little unpredictable.
*Very happy to hear that Marrone is looking more into having the QB run and spreading the field more. These are both issues I brought on his show and he sounded receptive to, but i didn't see any change on the field last year. I believe this is the key to Marrone's future as a successful Head Coach-putting more pressure on the Defense. If he can do this, he will be successful. If not, not. Our athletes aren't all NFL, but neither is Boise' and other types that have been very successful.

 

[OrangePA]

I think players follow the lead of their coaches or at least i did when i played. If you have a head coach who looks pissed, unemotional or just doesn't get excited i think it hurts the chemistry of the team and the desire of those players. DM never looks like he enjoys being a coach. Dude needs a vacation and to get excited for once. Maybe just a smile.

I don't get too worked up over emotion on the sidelines.

Tom Landry was not emotional. Don Shula was not emotional. Joe Gibbs was not emotional and Bill Belichick is not emotional.

The same is true for guys like Nick Saban.

So that's not an issue for me.

I like that Coach Marrone seems to keep a cool head during games. That to me is the right approach - maintain your poise and your concentration.

 

[OrangePA]

Very enlightening article.
My few thoughts FWIW:
* Casual fans are coming to see a good product, they don't care whether the Coach spends time shmoozing with the diehards.
*I'm still of the belief that the Defense is the least of our problems by far, as it's been fairly good 2 of Marrone's 3 years, as opposed to Offense and Special teams, which have been bad all 3 years.
*Marrone coaching Special teams could be a great move if he uses it as a weapon like other teams and not just try to minimize mistakes. I distinctly remember SU getting called for roughing the kicker when trying to block a punt and Marrone blaming himself for "taking the game out of the player's hands". I don't believe he went for a block again the rest of the year. IMO, the problem in that play wasn't the call, rather the execution. If there's one thing we can learn from RU, it's Special teams. I'll take a couple of roughing the kickers in exchange for several blocked punts/kicks. You can't get gun-shy-need to keep teaching the guys the proper ways to do it until they can get confidence that they will do it. There's no reason we can't. Marrone has to be willing to lay it on the line.
*Very happy to hear that Marrone is looking more into having the QB run and spreading the field more. These are both issues I brought on his show and he sounded receptive to it, but i didn't see any change on the field last year. I believe this is the key to Marrone's future as a successful Head Coach-putting more pressure on the Defense. If he can do this, he will be successful. If not, not. Our athletes aren't all NFL, but neither is Boise and other types that have been very successful.

"Defense the least of our problems."

Wow.

We couldn't tackle, and couldn't stop the run.

UConn ran all over us in the second half.

We could not stop L'ville, Cincy et al.

The difference between 2010 and 2011 was the defense.

Last year's defense was very young and will get better, but that was a key problem last fall.

 

[44PRIDE]

A 2 hour signing day reception (in february) takes too much time away from coaching?

Yeah, but a weekly in-season luncheon doesn't hurt a bit...

 

[VictorJ24]

Last year's team was probably 3 plays away from making a bowl game (and most of you "loving" the coach). Instead, most of you have turned on him. Yikes!

I think this team will be fine, this program is headed in the right direction. Relax.

 

[Orangetradition44]

Notice something about the coaches you listed?

And Saban is a very emotional coach. But you're right, he's usually pretty calm on the sidelines (but maybe cause he's always winning).

I don't get too worked up over emotion on the sidelines.

Tom Landry was not emotional. Don Shula was not emotional. Joe Gibbs was not emotional and Bill Belichick is not emotional.

The same is true for guys like Nick Saban.