The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read

I remember countless occasions where we blitzed on third down and gave up a long play. Tulane anyone?

I know it can be easy to say we should have blitzed more or blitzed less when nothing worked. But please don't let facts get in the way of a post.

:rolling:

3rd and 9 - 13 yard pass
3rd and 2 - 5 yard run
3rd and 3 - 2 yard pass
3rd and 1 - 1 yard loss rush
3rd and 8 - incomplete pass
3rd and 4 - I believe that was a trick play fumble recovery
3rd and 4 - incomplete pass
3rd and 6 - QB rush (maybe scramble) no gain
3rd and 3 - pass complete for 14 yards
3rd and 15 - pass complete for 5 yards
3rd and 1 - rush for 3 yards
3rd and 8 - pass complete for 14 yards
3rd and 11 - pass incomplete
3rd and 1 - rush for 1 yard loss

So we forced five 3rd and longs. Not one of them did we get beat for 15 yards or more.
 
That post tells me nothing about when we blitzed and how successful Tulane was against the blitz. Period. It is just a third down log.
 
That post tells me nothing about when we blitzed and how successful Tulane was against the blitz. Period. It is just a third down log.

You said that you remember "countless occasions" where we were caught in a blitz on 3rd down and gave up a big play. You then used Tulane as an example. Then you acted like a smart ass saying don't let facts get in the way. Since we gave up ZERO big plays on 3rd down vs Tulane, your example is wrong. Thanks for playing.
 
I agree 100% with the need to sell the program. But, I also think that DM was stunned that his team was not more competitive last year. Even though he recognizes the lack of depth and talent, I have to believe that banked on his vision, schemes and coaching to bridge the gap to "competing for the BE title" last season.

At the end of the day, this is still his first experience as a head coach. He must now adapt his vision to the reality of the lack of success on the field.

He is going "all in" next season, IMO. Everything else will be secondary.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Everyone has their "sources", but from my closest tithe program individual (close enough to know IMO), the coaches were all concerned about expectations after the win in the Bowl Game. That was largely viewed as overachievement. And while this season is viewed as underachievement, it's not by much.

The coaches new the talent level was low this year. Losing five straight was probably not in the cards, but neither beating WVU.

This team was, IMO, pretty to close to what it actually should have been. Yes we should have won a couple of games of games we lost, but for the lost this is who we are.

44cuse
 
Ruh roh, Shaggy.

“The No. 1 thing is we have to create more explosive plays,” Marrone said. “We’re spending a lot of time in this off-season trying to figure that out, whether it is condensing formations and play-action down the field – which when we looked at it we had some people open but we weren’t able to get them the ball – or whether it’s spreading the field out and putting more pressure on the defense.





Condensed formations is arguably one of the biggest things holding our offense back. Also, we need to stop comparing the move Marrone is making to coach the special teams to Frank Beamer. It is extremely unfair to Coach Marrone to put that move in the same breath as Beamer's since, I don't know, Beamer is arguably the best college football special teams coach of all time. Reminds me of the posts suggesting that Marrone was going to be football's version of Jim Boeheim. Aside from those ideas being pure lunacy, they're extremely unfair to the coach.
 
Whatever, I'll argue that giving up 3 first downs on a hitch for 15 yards is a big play, but if it makes you happy I'll admit when I am wrong. Maybe I was too drunk and looking forward to having sex with my wife after the game without the worry my kids are going to come running in the room.

However, their first TD that lung running play came off a draw where we blitzed off the other side. Their deep pass to score before the second half came on a backside wheel route where they picked up the blitz and actually had two receivers wide open down the sideline on the same side. So we blitzed a shitload on first and second down.

You're resorting to pulling game logs which don't tell you if we blitzed or not. Come on man, everyone else on this board knows we are a blitz heavy team except for you. Pull out your inner geek and post every third down log for the season. It happened a ton this year, period. When a staff member says "we blitzed more this year than any previous year" I'll go by the the source rather than some internet guru pulling silly game logs. THAT'S THE FACT YOU REFUSE TO ADMIT.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that. Everyone has their "sources", but from my closest tithe program individual (close enough to know IMO), the coaches were all concerned about expectations after the win in the Bowl Game. That was largely viewed as overachievement. And while this season is viewed as underachievement, it's not by much.

The coaches new the talent level was low this year. Losing five straight was probably not in the cards, but neither beating WVU.

This team was, IMO, pretty to close to what it actually should have been. Yes we should have won a couple of games of games we lost, but for the lost this is who we are.

44cuse

I think record wise we were around where we should have been. However I think having a younger team we should have been getting better as the year went on. Yet we got worse as the year went on. That was a huge disappointment and concerns me going into next year. The last 5 games our highest point total was 21 points. We only led one of the last 5 games going into the 4th Q. The other four we were down more than one score going into the 4th, meaning we weren't really close to victory. I highly doubt anyone expected us to avg 16.2 ppg the last five and not really be in most of those games come 4th Q.

I thought before the season we would take a step back record wise and then take a big step forward in 2012. I still hope that happens despite showing no improvement at the end of 2011.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that. Everyone has their "sources", but from my closest tithe program individual (close enough to know IMO), the coaches were all concerned about expectations after the win in the Bowl Game. That was largely viewed as overachievement. And while this season is viewed as underachievement, it's not by much.

The coaches new the talent level was low this year. Losing five straight was probably not in the cards, but neither beating WVU.

This team was, IMO, pretty to close to what it actually should have been. Yes we should have won a couple of games of games we lost, but for the lost this is who we are.

44cuse

I appreciate the info, 44cuse. I was basing my opinion on DM's stated preseason goal, to compete for the BE's title.

"First off, I want everyone to know, and the players will tell you this, we talked to the players and we have signed onto our goals, and our goal as a football team, make no mistake about it, is to be able to compete for a BIG EAST Championship."

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2011/8/5/FB_0805115843.aspx?id=7686
 
I have it on good authority that we actually blitzed on a higher percentage of plays last year than the prior years under Shafer. The single biggest reason for the lack of effectiveness with our blitzes this year was primarily due to the lack of experience at the linebacker and defensive line position. I can't tell you how many times they showed blitz too early or blitzed way to late. The younger kids up front did a poor job of stunting allowing blitzing gaps to open up, etc. We showed our hand waaaaay to often with the blitzing game.

Smith and Hogue were also great in zone coverages and had a very strong understanding of the offensive passing game -- knowing tuypes of combo routes, etc. We saw very few YAC's on dump offs and quick hitters last year. This year we were killed by screens, jailbreaks, hitches, under routes, and swing passes.

I will also respectfully disagree about Henderson's hire. The reason Brumbaugh and Conley are gone most likely had to do with the lack of development the young guys showed up front. Shafer had a lot of input about who needed to go and who needed to stay. All the guys brought in are Shafer's guys. Every one of them. Henderson is know for playing man press with an aggressive blitz scheme. It actually is a very good fit on paper.
CIL try to understand that it is ok to question Doug. He is just our coach a coach who lost 5 games in a row, according to some lost the team in the locker room and has shown zero ability to lead a college O. I realize that you worship him and that is great. I worship the program and Doug is nothing more than a means to an end. I actually like him. Is he bull headed sure but that is ok as i really think he cares for his players. Still wake up and realize that he sucked last year. I mean how the hell do you defend last year? It was Grobesque. I hope he gets his together this year for the program but i can promise you that if he doesnt my father and the boosters are the least of his worries
 
That post tells me nothing about when we blitzed and how successful Tulane was against the blitz. Period. It is just a third down log.
Come on CIL when your pants are off it isnt pretty do your homework
 
I appreciate the info, 44cuse. I was basing my opinion on DM's stated preseason goal, to compete for the BE's title.

"First off, I want everyone to know, and the players will tell you this, we talked to the players and we have signed onto our goals, and our goal as a football team, make no mistake about it, is to be able to compete for a BIG EAST Championship."

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2011/8/5/FB_0805115843.aspx?id=7686

No doubt. I wasn't trying to imply that the public goals, or more accurately: the goals of the leader, we're anything less than a BE Championship. It should always be that way.

But that was the stretch goal IMO. When I read that, my reaction was: "Good. That's what they should be saying". But never once did I think we were going to win the BE and I don't believe the coaches thought that either.

44cuse
 
No doubt. I wasn't trying to imply that the public goals, or more accurately: the goals of the leader, we're anything less than a BE Championship. It should always be that way.

But that was the stretch goal IMO. When I read that, my reaction was: "Good. That's what they should be saying". But never once did I think we were going to win the BE and I don't believe the coaches thought that either.

44cuse

Their #1 goal was to get to another bowl.
 
A couple of thoughts (to add to the 978,000 thoughts already posted):

-- I thought it was interesting that he noted SU needs to concentrate on what they do well more. Feels like he's talking about an offensive identity. If so, I like that. Being multiple is ... whatever ... but just do some things well. That would help.

-- Big plays, to me, are generated by gifted players. I really liked a lot of our offensive personnel this year -- Provo was solid, Nassib is better than many think (IMO), Lemon had a very nice year, Chew can be decent, PTG has potential -- but there wasn't a player outside of Bailey that had that burst and/or shiftiness to create that big play. PTG may be one, but we didn't get a chance to see it. Hope that changes this year, but I'm skeptical.

-- Focus on STs is welcome.

-- Doing a recruiting luncheon is part of the job. Schmoozing is part of the job. Generating good will in the community is part of the job. Working with the AD and communications folks to try and generate a deeper, broader fan base is part of the job. I agree with what I guess is Doug's opinion of this stuff (it blows and isn't fun and not exactly his personality). But he has to do it. It really is that simple.
 
Their #1 goal was to get to another bowl.

Certainly a far more realistic goal then winning the Big East. That said, you only have to win 6 to go to another bowl. 6-6 would have been a step back and the coaches thought they overachieved in 2010 and did not expect the same results in 2011.

They were right. What was the point you were trying to make? The goal every year should be to get to a bowl and win whatever league you are in. Stretch goals are set everyday in every business. I don't blame them for it. I applaud them for having the foresight to see that 2010 was setting up 2011 for disappointment.

44cuse
 
I don't get too worked up over emotion on the sidelines.

Tom Landry was not emotional. Don Shula was not emotional. Joe Gibbs was not emotional and Bill Belichick is not emotional.

The same is true for guys like Nick Saban.

So that's not an issue for me.

I like that Coach Marrone seems to keep a cool head during games. That to me is the right approach - maintain your poise and your concentration.
i was not referring to his sideline behavior, but his demeanor in many situations including interviews. he displays no sense of humor, rigid,distant and unapproachable.--i may be way off base that translates to players and coaches. hell even jimmy has a tonge in cheek sarcastic humor.he needs to relax,stop the micromanagement and get to know his team. i an a dm fan,but he appears to burn out everyone including himself. he is very emotional and appears to spend a lot of energy not showing it. a sense of humor goes a long way.
 
-- Doing a recruiting luncheon is part of the job. Schmoozing is part of the job. Generating good will in the community is part of the job. Working with the AD and communications folks to try and generate a deeper, broader fan base is part of the job. I agree with what I guess is Doug's opinion of this stuff (it blows and isn't fun and not exactly his personality). But he has to do it. It really is that simple.

Exactly. Can't just stop doing part of your job. I don't get all fired up on this stuff either but some do. It is part of the gig but at this point he either wins the next two years or he will be gone
 
Certainly a far more realistic goal then winning the Big East. That said, you only have to win 6 to go to another bowl. 6-6 would have been a step back and the coaches thought they overachieved in 2010 and did not expect the same results in 2011.

They were right. What was the point you were trying to make? The goal every year should be to get to a bowl and win whatever league you are in. Stretch goals are set everyday in every business. I don't blame them for it. I applaud them for having the foresight to see that 2010 was setting up 2011 for disappointment.

44cuse

What was my point? My point was that their goal and expectation was to get to another bowl. It wasn't a pie in the sky stretch goal.
 
-- Big plays, to me, are generated by gifted players. I really liked a lot of our offensive personnel this year -- Provo was solid, Nassib is better than many think (IMO), Lemon had a very nice year, Chew can be decent, PTG has potential -- but there wasn't a player outside of Bailey that had that burst and/or shiftiness to create that big play. PTG may be one, but we didn't get a chance to see it. Hope that changes this year, but I'm skeptical.

But you can also get big plays by causing mismatches or putting stress on a D by spreading the field. Running a pro style O you NEED gifted players to get big plays. Which is why IMO running a pro style O at this level is not a good idea. There are big plays happening all over the country by teams that have less talent than SU. How are these teams doing it?
 
What was my point? My point was that their goal and expectation was to get to another bowl. It wasn't a pie in the sky stretch goal.

and a very realistic goal that should have been met, sure they would have liked to win the BE but that did not happen but that was probably a bit lofty
 
-- Doing a recruiting luncheon is part of the job. Schmoozing is part of the job. Generating good will in the community is part of the job. Working with the AD and communications folks to try and generate a deeper, broader fan base is part of the job. I agree with what I guess is Doug's opinion of this stuff (it blows and isn't fun and not exactly his personality). But he has to do it. It really is that simple.

Mack Brown and Brady Hoke have quite different opinions on the role of a head coach. Mack Brown could probably run for Governor in Texas with all the schmoozing he does.
 
Sure, expectations going into last season had us missing the bowl game. However, expectations going into last season changed when the team hit 5 wins. They most certainly changed after whooping on WVU. Last season's 5 game meltdown was epic. It was an epic letdown in all phases of the program.


"Epic"

Give me a break.

The Houston Oilers giving up what, a 35-38 point lead - I don't recall the number - in the second half, is epic.

The Pittsburgh Pirates having 19 straight losing seasons is epic.

Losing five games in a row in which in four out of the games, you were expected to lose, is not "epic."

Have some perspective.
 
In the scale between "massively disappointing" and "epic" does it really matter?

The question is whether Doug's solutions address the issues with offense (not enough big plays), defense (too many of those), and specials (bad coverage). No great revelations in that list.

You could think of other solutions: a playmaking slot back, a linebacker and a safety from the JUCO ranks, in addition to two DLs. A coach who has had success coaching specials. Adopting the Cincy & UConn approaches to using a second QB who can run. Alternating RBs (as the Giants do). Helping Nassib with his touch.
 
You could think of other solutions: a playmaking slot back, a linebacker and a safety from the JUCO ranks, in addition to two DLs. A coach who has had success coaching specials. Adopting the Cincy & UConn approaches to using a second QB who can run. Alternating RBs (as the Giants do). Helping Nassib with his touch.

Several of your solutions involve more contributions from the running backs. It's an awfully big if, but IF PTG, Smith, and AAM can stay healthy and two out of three are consistent, I see no reason why there isn't room for a playmaking slot back AND alternating RBs.
 
"Epic"

Give me a break.

The Houston Oilers giving up what, a 35-38 point lead - I don't recall the number - in the second half, is epic.

The Pittsburgh Pirates having 19 straight losing seasons is epic.

Losing five games in a row in which in four out of the games, you were expected to lose, is not "epic."

Have some perspective.


we were expected to lose those games because of the EPIC collapse-

anyone who follows the program has to be skid-dish about marrones offense -he has done zero with it in 3 years-done nothing this off season other than spout coach speak to fix it-

add in his "hell with you" to the fans

i am honestly starting to believe instead of think he isnt the right man for the job-guy is way too over strung to run a program-his move closer to assistants so he can hover over them even more is another sign-

he thinks it wont work unless he is in charge-

the team will play as tight as he acts this season just like the skid last year
 
Can be found in OE's links above...

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.
 

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