The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read

[A Clockwork Orange]

Which is greater i wonder... 40k people in the dome or 10k at giant stadium + donations.

And I do understand the fundraising side, but I was just listing a recent anti-fan decision from the AD.

My thought is that the Good Doctor might feel like we haven't tapped our NYC alumni as much, and that the Syracuse based alumni is already giving the max they're willing to give. This is obviously 100% conjecture, just a thought as to why they are doing this.

 

[Orangetradition44]

Last year's team was probably 3 plays away from making a bowl game (and most of you "loving" the coach). Instead, most of you have turned on him. Yikes!

I think this team will be fine, this program is headed in the right direction. Relax.

Agree with that sentiment, BUT that EPIC collapse to end the season did permanent damage to those recovery efforts. 1 more friggin win, and NO ONE could argue we were headed in the right direction. But it didn't happen and I blame Marrone.

And that severe disappointment has made me look at coach with the realization that he might not be the guy to save this program. Too many data points are starting to accumulate that say he really doesn't understand or feel comfortable in the college game.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[OrangePA]

Agree with that sentiment, BUT that EPIC collapse to end the season did permanent damage to those recovery efforts. 1 more friggin win, and NO ONE could argue we were headed in the right direction. But it didn't happen and I blame Marrone.

And that severe disappointment has made me look at coach with the realization that he might not be the guy to save this program. Too many data points are starting to accumulate that say he really doesn't understand or feel comfortable in the college game.

Hope I'm wrong.

I think you're wrong.

I don't view last year's losses as "epic."

The team performed about where I figured the team would perform, having lost Derrell Smith, Doug Hogue, Max Suter, Mike Holmes, Bud Tribbey, Andrew Lewis, Rob Long and others that I'm forgetting right now on a decent defensive unit.

I think the 2010 season raised expectations a bit too high.

I view last year as a part of the process of rejuvanating the program.

 

[44PRIDE]

I think you're wrong.

I don't view last year's losses as "epic."

The team performed about where I figured the team would perform, having lost Derrell Smith, Doug Hogue, Max Suter, Mike Holmes, Bud Tribbey, Andrew Lewis, Rob Long and others that I'm forgetting right now on a decent defensive unit.

I think the 2010 season raised expectations a bit too high.

I view last year as a part of the process of rejuvanating the program.

Sure, expectations going into last season had us missing the bowl game. However, expectations going into last season changed when the team hit 5 wins. They most certainly changed after whooping on WVU. Last season's 5 game meltdown was epic. It was an epic letdown in all phases of the program.

 

[Scooch]

I agree that Coach Marrone is underestimating the importance of his fan interaction.

It is that interaction that builds emotional capital - and that emotional capital pays dividends when the wins don't come.

That was P's problem. When the wins became more difficult he really had no emotional capital upon which he could rely.

He put his bet strictly upon wins. And when he lost, he was exposed.

Marrone has avoided a lot of that so far.

I think he is discounting a very important part of his job.

But, I guess the losses are so painful that he is willing now to do whatever he feels he has to do in order get wins.

I hope it works.

Good post, OPA.

I've always felt the same way about Coach P, being that when you eschew the schmoozing aspect of the job you put yourself in a place where it becomes ALL about the Ws and Ls.

I think Marrone gets a long leash because of the mess he inherited and his alum status. But turning away from the fanbase, no matter how fickle and small it may be, will shorten that leash considerably, IMHO.

 

[Millhouse]

Not being so multiple is fine with me because it will help with repeating bread and butter plays and formations with limited practice time.

But he's kidding himself if he thinks that's going to help nassib hit big plays down the field.

He's shrinking the playbook for all the wrong reasons. "We need to do something to help Nassib hit open receivers downfield. This is something. We must do this!"

If you're going to play other quarterbacks because your starting qb isn't a running threat and you're scaling down your offense because your starting qb isn't a deep passing threat, why is he your starting qb? Just move on already.

 

[Scooch]

Talent makes big plays.

Hopefully Sales comes back strong, otherwise...

 

[orangepassion]

"Defense the least of our problems."

Wow.

We couldn't tackle, and couldn't stop the run.

UConn ran all over us in the second half.

We could not stop L'ville, Cincy et al.

The difference between 2010 and 2011 was the defense.

Last year's defense was very young and will get better, but that was a key problem last fall.

As I posted originally,
Offense=o-3
Special Teams=0-3
Defense=2-3
Last year, we had a huge turnover on defense and we were very young. Considering how good on Defense we were the 1st 2 players, that's on the players. The offense has been bad all 3 years-I'm not sure how that can be argued. To me, that's coaching.

 

[kcsu]

I don't get too worked up over emotion on the sidelines.

Tom Landry was not emotional. Don Shula was not emotional. Joe Gibbs was not emotional and Bill Belichick is not emotional.

The same is true for guys like Nick Saban.

So that's not an issue for me.

I like that Coach Marrone seems to keep a cool head during games. That to me is the right approach - maintain your poise and your concentration.

I played college Bball and i can tell you emotion is huge at the college level. Every coach that you point to with the exception of Saban is a pro coach. Saban has the advantage of having the best of the best players. Doesnt need to "emotion" them up. Name one college football team that isnt a top recruiting power and show me success without a coach that gets them fired up. Doug isnt just lacking emotion on the sidelines he looks Dead. Im sure on the inside he is burning with desire and passion so let a little out. Heck even when he doesnt like a call from a Ref he looks Dead. Emotion is a good thing at this age and can make up for a lot. Just ask JB

 

[Aweart23]

As I posted originally,
The offense has been bad all 3 years-I'm not sure how that can be argued. To me, that's coaching.

For fun

Year 1- the Rob Spence and Greg Paulus experiment-
Year 2- Five games in we had no healthy wide receivers (Chew hurt, Lemon hurt, Sales in Doghouse, Graham couldn't catch)

I tend to give the staff a little bit of a pass on years 1 & 2 for those reasons...

 

[CIL]

I played college Bball and i can tell you emotion is huge at the college level. Every coach that you point to with the exception of Saban is a pro coach. Saban has the advantage of having the best of the best players. Doesnt need to "emotion" them up. Name one college football team that isnt a top recruiting power and show me success without a coach that gets them fired up. Doug isnt just lacking emotion on the sidelines he looks Dead. Im sure on the inside he is burning with desire and passion so let a little out. Heck even when he doesnt like a call from a Ref he looks Dead. Emotion is a good thing at this age and can make up for a lot. Just ask JB

I played collegiate football and hockey and loathed coached that screamed and attempted to motivate me by jumping up and down and screaming.

To each's own - I prefer a coach that is calm and collected. No need to scream and shout - typically it leads to kids playing scared, running around out of position, playing undisciplined, etc.

Saban and Miles weren't jumping around like a bunch of gorillas out there in the championship game. I think this view of Marrone's coaching style is plain silly.

Your point about showing you a school that isn't a recruiting power is kind of weird. So if the school has talent or is a good program, they need silence. Have you ever watched Peterson at Boise St? Not a screamer. Patterson at TCU is rather reserved.

On the other hand, I recall Grob being quite animated...

 

[kcsu]

I played collegiate football and hockey and loathed coached that screamed and attempted to motivate me by jumping up and down and screaming.

To each's own - I prefer a coach that is calm and collected. No need to scream and shout - typically it leads to kids playing scared, running around out of position, playing undisciplined, etc.

Saban and Miles weren't jumping around like a bunch of gorillas out there in the championship game. I think this view of Marrone's coaching style is plain silly.

My college basketball coach is in the Hall and he wasnt a screamer hardly ever swore but he had passion and we knew it. If you made a good or bad play you knew it. He was involved vs detached. No need to scream but there is a need to motivate

 

[kingottoiii]

I don't like what he said about the D one bit. I thought last year we did not blitz enough. Waaaaay too many times we rushed 3 guys on 3rd and long sitting in a zone and allowed a drive to be extended. As a fan IMO there is nothing worse than watching that happen time and again. Expecting to get a good pass rush with 4 DLs IMO isn't reasonable unless you have a good DL or a stud pass rusher. We have neither. If we really are expecting that to happen, it will be a long year on D. That is such an NFL mentality. Shafer runs a college D. And a pretty exciting one. But his D is only effective when it is constantly attacking. When his D doesn't attack it sucks ass. We should either be looking to attack more or get a DC whose system works without attacking. I prefer we keep Shafer. I sometimes wonder if Marrone is handcuffing him.

Last year the big plays on D had NOTHING to do with youth. It was almost always a blown coverage. Our DBs last year had a ton of experience going into the season. That group was a lot more experienced than this 2012 group will be. So either our players didn't "get it" or Shafer did a bad job teaching the DBs. I find it interesting that Marrone brought in a new DB coach (whom he has coached with before), that fits the NFL mold for a D (which doesn't fit Shafer's system). Also we already had two guys on staff who could coach DBs, meaning we did not need another. I hope that this won't cause any friction this year. I think Marrone might have brought in one of his guys to take over should the D struggle again.

 

[CIL]

Essentially you are now backtracking and writing that Marrone lacks passion, is emotionally detached from the game, and fails to communicate to his player if they are making good plays or bad plays. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're wrong here. Marrone lives and dies with this program -- the guy eat, sleeps, and breathes Syracuse football. I have seen him grab kids and chew them out on the sideline countless times, as well as congratulate kids for making plays.

Listen I'm sorry Doug didn't high five you and your dad at a booster dinner a few years back. I get it, you're not much of a Doug fan. I can certainly understand a difference of opinion in offensive football philosophy, misuse of back up QB's, etc. But when you gripe that the team is underperforming due to the fact that marrone is calm on the sidelines, you kind of set yourself up for criticism.

 

[CIL]

I don't like what he said about the D one bit. I thought last year we did not blitz enough. Waaaaay too many times we rushed 3 guys on 3rd and long sitting in a zone and allowed a drive to be extended. As a fan IMO there is nothing worse than watching that happen time and again. Expecting to get a good pass rush with 4 DLs IMO isn't reasonable unless you have a good DL or a stud pass rusher. We have neither. If we really are expecting that to happen, it will be a long year on D. That is such an NFL mentality. Shafer runs a college D. And a pretty exciting one. But his D is only effective when it is constantly attacking. When his D doesn't attack it sucks ass. We should either be looking to attack more or get a DC whose system works without attacking. I prefer we keep Shafer. I sometimes wonder if Marrone is handcuffing him.

Last year the big plays on D had NOTHING to do with youth. It was almost always a blown coverage. Our DBs last year had a ton of experience going into the season. That group was a lot more experienced than this 2012 group will be. So either our players didn't "get it" or Shafer did a bad job teaching the DBs. I find it interesting that Marrone brought in a new DB coach (whom he has coached with before), that fits the NFL mold for a D (which doesn't fit Shafer's system). Also we already had two guys on staff who could coach DBs, meaning we did not need another. I hope that this won't cause any friction this year. I think Marrone might have brought in one of his guys to take over should the D struggle again.

I have it on good authority that we actually blitzed on a higher percentage of plays last year than the prior years under Shafer. The single biggest reason for the lack of effectiveness with our blitzes this year was primarily due to the lack of experience at the linebacker and defensive line position. I can't tell you how many times they showed blitz too early or blitzed way to late. The younger kids up front did a poor job of stunting allowing blitzing gaps to open up, etc. We showed our hand waaaaay to often with the blitzing game.

Smith and Hogue were also great in zone coverages and had a very strong understanding of the offensive passing game -- knowing tuypes of combo routes, etc. We saw very few YAC's on dump offs and quick hitters last year. This year we were killed by screens, jailbreaks, hitches, under routes, and swing passes.

I will also respectfully disagree about Henderson's hire. The reason Brumbaugh and Conley are gone most likely had to do with the lack of development the young guys showed up front. Shafer had a lot of input about who needed to go and who needed to stay. All the guys brought in are Shafer's guys. Every one of them. Henderson is know for playing man press with an aggressive blitz scheme. It actually is a very good fit on paper.

 

[Stern]

Sure, expectations going into last season had us missing the bowl game. However, expectations going into last season changed when the team hit 5 wins. They most certainly changed after whooping on WVU. Last season's 5 game meltdown was epic. It was an epic letdown in all phases of the program.

Totally agree. When you are 5-2 and coming off a huge win vs WV who is a legit ranked program and you can't muster up 1 more win vs lesser competition that is an all time choke job right there. EPIC is a good word for it. That's Red Sox or Mets end of the year swoon job from previous years. There is no positive spin to put on that meltdown whatsoever.

 

[rosconey]

we all saw how tight and edgy marrone got as the streak wore on -

even he understood how EPIC it was-

 

[kingottoiii]

I have it on good authority that we actually blitzed on a higher percentage of plays last year than the prior years under Shafer. The single biggest reason for the lack of effectiveness with our blitzes this year was primarily due to the lack of experience at the linebacker and defensive line position. I can't tell you how many times they showed blitz too early or blitzed way to late. The younger kids up front did a poor job of stunting allowing blitzing gaps to open up, etc. We showed our hand waaaaay to often with the blitzing game.

There were games where you could count the blitzes on one hand. Then there were games were you could count the non blitzes on one hand. On third and long this past year we consistently went to a 3 man rush with a zone. I am sure with better coverage we would have stopped a lot more of those 3rd and longs. But IMO you make it a lot easier on the O by sitting back.

 

[CIL]

Once again, we blitzed more last year than any other year under Shafer. It may have seemed like we sat back because we had one of the worst 3rd down conversion % defenses in all of collegiate football, but we blitzed a ton.

 

[kingottoiii]

Once again, we blitzed more last year than any other year under Shafer. It may have seemed like we sat back because we had one of the worst 3rd down conversion % defenses in all of collegiate football, but we blitzed a ton.

-We did not blitz a lot last year (2010). So saying we blitzed more this year (2011) doesn't mean we blitzed a lot. Dumb argument. We were able to get away with it more times last year (2010) because of better coverage. I still don't think we blitzed enough in 2010 either.

-Last year (2011) on 3rd down we rarely blitzed. When you rush 3 DLmen every time and don't show or bring any LBs or DBs that isn't a blitz. I am not blind.

-Our numbers had to have been skewed by WV and RU were we blitzed nearly every play this year (2011). The year before (2010) RU ran wildcat every play and we went bend but don't break. WV we played a lot of zone coverage and tried to make Smith beat us by making reads. On top of that in 2010 we had three games were we got pounded on the ground and rarely had a 3rd and long situation to even attempt a blitz (UL, UConn, and BC). Plus three games where we didn't need to blitz and didn't even try to (Akron, Colgate, Maine). The UW we were scared to blitz their QB. I will say we did a good job attacking by blitzing USF in 2010. However this year (2011) we didn't blitz USF as much, which was weird based on the success we had in 2010.

There are games where we attack attack attack. In those the D plays great. Then there are games where we sit back all game and never get off the field. IMO we need more of the attacking games and less of the sitting back games. Also IMO the first half of 2009 we attacked more often then we have since. After that we saw a lot more of the sitting back, with a few select games here and there with attacking. It seems like we only unleash the D in big games, and try and keep things tight for the others. Which is why IMO the D is either really good or really bad. We have had very few average games on D.

 

[CIL]

Well it wasn't 3rd down. When you rush 3 nearly every time that isn't a blitz. I am not blind.

I don't know what else to tell you - we blitzed a boatload and it didn't work, when we rushed three it didn't work either. Happy?

The issue that you are skirting is that our blitzes were quite ineffective outside the wvu game I listed above. Hence the new coaches.

 

[qdawgg]

-Our numbers had to have been skewed by WV and RU were we blitzed nearly every play this year.

Have to be skewed? So that it fits your argument better? Your sounding pretty dumb when your obviously basing your argument on feelings and what you remember and not on actual facts/statistics.

 

[GHLF]

Some things should have been left unsaid about participating in specific activities concerning fan interation. So many good points made. I believe the entire program must promote itself. On the other hand I belive he is trying to set the stage for victory at all costs next year. He knows we have to win, I truly believe if he is to ramp up recruiting efforts he feels the time is now to win. He will gain brownie points later, still I do hope that he shows the players he cares, that does not take time if you really do care. You will run through a wall if you know the person behind you and in front of you has your back. I hope this team comes together and starts playing for each other this year. I truly believe that marrone is a tremendous coach in terms of x's and 0's now he must teach and motivate. True motivation in my opinion is based on being there for your team at all costs. We are going to do this together. Cannot say for sure however I do recall hearing somewhere that the 1987 team forsook alcohol and certain activities to build team unity. Wow we rode that wave for 14 years. Go team, for yourselves, family and coaches. An SU fan

 

[kingottoiii]

Have to be skewed? So that it fits your argument better? Your sounding pretty dumb when your obviously basing your argument on feelings and what you remember and not on actual facts/statistics.

If I had every game on DVR I would prove my point. Unfortunately I do not. Can ANYONE on this board remember the D getting caught often in a blitz on 3rd down, allowing the other team to convert? I GUARANTEE you that there are people on this board that remember giving up 3rd downs with a 3 man rush. We cannot all be wrong.

Again I would love to see the stats stating otherwise. IMO they do not exist. Basing your argument on a mythical stat that may or may not exist is pretty dumb.

Listen I NEVER claimed we blitzed a lot in 2010. In fact IMO we did not blitz ENOUGH in 2010 (which is why we were not even Top 50 in 3rd down D %). So the fact that we may have blitzed more in 2011 does NOT mean we still blitz enough or blitz a lot. So let's say in 2010 we blitzed on 3rd and long 25% of the time. And in 2011 we blitzed 33% of the time. Is 33% > than 25%? Yes. But that does not mean that 33% is a lot or enough.

 

[CIL]

Seriously? We blitz more than 80% of teams. That's what Shafer is known for, his brand per say.

I remember countless occasions where we blitzed on third down and gave up a long play. Tulane anyone? We did an awful job timing and disguising our blitzes this year, allowing other teams to throw screens, etc into the direction of the blitz. In 2010 hogue and smith did a great job identifying the hot receiver. Not so much this year with the new guys.

I'd hate to think I missed the entire 2011 SU football season, but maybe I went to a few of some other team's games without knowing it.

I know it can be easy to say we should have blitzed more or blitzed less when nothing worked. But please don't let facts get in the way of a post.

We are a pressure heavy team that plays cover 3 and man with absinthe high behind it. That's why we got beat on those ten yard hitches a ton last year - very susceptible to that route in three deep coverage, especially when the OLB fails to get enough depth on this drop - another issue with last years D.