The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read

[rosconey]

sorry guys maybe its because of my choice of dog?

 

[Millhouse]

As Mike Tyson once said "Everyone has a plan, until they get hit."

I think that's what's happened to Marrone. I believe 100% that he did, and does, have a "plan". But he also inherited a real live program, and morphing that reality into his ideal is proving to be difficult.

I don't get nearly as worked up about the "how" as some of you guys. Recruiting, assistants, etc... whatever. I always say, it's his ship he should sail it the way he wants.

But I am concerned that the guy looks like he's in a hostage video much of the time. It's football, this should be fun. I don't get the sense that it is for him, but maybe I'm wrong.

we just need to get through this year. he's going to lose his mind wondering why the offense is in the 90s again. i wish we could just fast forward to 2013.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

As Mike Tyson once said "Everyone has a plan, until they get hit."

I think that's what's happened to Marrone. I believe 100% that he did, and does, have a "plan". But he also inherited a real live program, and morphing that reality into his ideal is proving to be difficult.

I don't get nearly as worked up about the "how" as some of you guys. Recruiting, assistants, etc... whatever. I always say, it's his ship he should sail it the way he wants.

But I am concerned that the guy looks like he's in a hostage video much of the time. It's football, this should be fun. I don't get the sense that it is for him, but maybe I'm wrong.

Great post and that is my outlook 353 days a year, sometimes on gameday and a day or two aferwards fueled off of a bunch of beers and and grey goose I tend to lose contol. I have been around here long enough that most people get that about me and I thank you for that. Off season I have no problem with anything that Marrone has done, ( It's details or semantics really, I tend to believe that the PR/ marketing stuff is part of the job but if he wants to put himself in a bunker and go him and his team versus the world then so be it- just win games and put some points on the board, get some facilities built so we aren't bring a knife to a gun fight and I am fine with it but jesus Doug, win lose or draw you and your familiy are going to be fine, if he isn't the coach at SU for the next 20 years he will still be fine. This isn't life and death, if he gets fired it's not like he loses everything

 

[rosconey]

exactly right-he is set for life with what he will make at su-

lets not cry for him because he cant handle the pressure-

this is first and foremost about su football-marrone is just a part of that

 

[javadoc]

Off season I have no problem with anything that Marrone has done, ( It's details or semantics really, I tend to believe that the PR/ marketing stuff is part of the job but if he wants to put himself in a bunker and go him and his team versus the world then so be it- just win games and put some points on the board, get some facilities built so we aren't bring a knife to a gun fight and I am fine with it but jesus Doug, win lose or draw you and your familiy are going to be fine, if he isn't the coach at SU for the next 20 years he will still be fine. This isn't life and death, if he gets fired it's not like he loses everything

IMO (total guess) what is killing him is the fan base. Maybe the "extended Syracuse community" isn't what he remembered it being. He has said it indirectly in public, but he probably wishes he could say it outright: "Look folks, we were just about the worst program in D-1A when I took over and we have continuing obstacles to overcome, and we didn't (don't yet!) have the horses to be a very successful program, but for pete's sake this is college football, and I don't understand why you don't come to the damn games, because your not going makes it harder for us to get where we want to be. Chicken and egg people, jeez."

It really seems like he is burning out beating his head against the "fan base" that we have. They've done everything but give tickets away.

And I will say it again, "If they put a better product on the field..." is a bull argument in college football. Just pick a pro team to follow and be done with it. Which is what I suspect a lot of folks in upstate have done.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

IMO (total guess) what is killing him is the fan base. Maybe the "extended Syracuse community" isn't what he remembered it being. He has said it indirectly in public, but he probably wishes he could say it outright: "Look folks, we were just about the worst program in D-1A when I took over and we have continuing obstacles to overcome, and we didn't (don't yet!) have the horses to be a very successful program, but for pete's sake this is college football, and I don't understand why you don't come to the damn games, because your not going makes it harder for us to get where we want to be. Chicken and egg people, jeez."

It really seems like he is burning out beating his head against the "fan base" that we have. They've done everything but give tickets away.

And I will say it again, "If they put a better product on the field..." is a bull argument in college football. Just pick a pro team to follow and be done with it. Which is what I suspect a lot of folks in upstate have done.

Certainly don't disagree with any of that... but when Doug played here we were struggling for the most part as well until his senior year and like I said I may bitch but I am good for 3 season tickets in preferred A, and orange club donation for football on top of that, as well as 1-2 away games a year.

 

[qdawgg]

I agree your starting to sound like KCSU

LOL - nice.

 

[IthacaMatt]

im telling you guys-

he is throwing all his eggs into defense-

he see's he has nothing to work with on offense (his own fault) so he is hoping to recreate his 2010 defense in hopes for a win or 2

why else ignore the second biggest issue behind special teams?

Well, that's just SUPER ! I mean, the college game is all about offense, not defense. Just look at the top teams and how many points we put on the board. For God's sake, I don't want to see us ranked above 100 again in offensive categories this year. He's got to start generating some offense and taking some chances with the play calling. We are way too conservative and predictable.

And no, he hasn't played young players enough; he has stuck too much with his starters, leaving subs unprepared when injuries occur. I mean, who is going to QB next year and are they going to get any meaningful snaps ?

 

[rosconey]

hes so conservative i bet he only knows missionary

 

[GoSU96]

Well, that's just SUPER ! I mean, the college game is all about offense, not defense. Just look at the top teams and how many points we put on the board. For God's sake, I don't want to see us ranked above 100 again in offensive categories this year. He's got to start generating some offense and taking some chances with the play calling. We are way too conservative and predictable.

And no, he hasn't played young players enough; he has stuck too much with his starters, leaving subs unprepared when injuries occur. I mean, who is going to QB next year and are they going to get any meaningful snaps ?

And what categories was SU ranked in the 100's this year?

 

[rosconey]

And what categories was SU ranked in the 100's this year?

what like 101 total offense-that kind of stat?
rushing -99-dang 1 whole number off- flogging isnt harsh enough

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/total

 

[kcsu]

And what categories was SU ranked in the 100's this year?

Go what did you think of the play calling this year? Please dont answer about a lack of talent just focus on the play calling. Thanks

 

[rrlbees]

IMO (total guess) what is killing him is the fan base. Maybe the "extended Syracuse community" isn't what he remembered it being. He has said it indirectly in public, but he probably wishes he could say it outright: "Look folks, we were just about the worst program in D-1A when I took over and we have continuing obstacles to overcome, and we didn't (don't yet!) have the horses to be a very successful program, but for pete's sake this is college football, and I don't understand why you don't come to the damn games, because your not going makes it harder for us to get where we want to be. Chicken and egg people, jeez."

It really seems like he is burning out beating his head against the "fan base" that we have. They've done everything but give tickets away.

And I will say it again, "If they put a better product on the field..." is a bull argument in college football. Just pick a pro team to follow and be done with it. Which is what I suspect a lot of folks in upstate have done.

I don't, and never will, buy the excuse it is the fans fault. If so, lets just say GRobs horrible record was the fans fault too because less showed up then (I think).

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't buy the burnout stuff either, marrone is fine, he just hates losing and the line of questioning that goes with it and he should. The more he loses the harder he presses, the grumpier he gets, he is the same guy he was when he walked through the door but he now knows that he can't win fans back with 5-7 seasons. Stress goes with the territory and he isn't really at risk, his salary is guaranteed for 5 years, if he gets canned he goes back to the NFL and will be fine, not like he has skin in the game here. His family will be fine. People get carried away, for every Meyer there is a Steve Spurrier, stress is the stress

 

[GoSU96]

what like 101 total offense-that kind of stat?
rushing -99-dang 1 whole number off- flogging isnt harsh enough

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/total

You do realize that those are total yards based on an unequal number of games, right? Team stats are not measured by total yards.

This year, they didn't finish in the 100's in any category.

That's not a tremendous accomplishment, but if people want to argue facts, try to get the basics right.

 

[Scooch]

IMO (total guess) what is killing him is the fan base. Maybe the "extended Syracuse community" isn't what he remembered it being. He has said it indirectly in public, but he probably wishes he could say it outright: "Look folks, we were just about the worst program in D-1A when I took over and we have continuing obstacles to overcome, and we didn't (don't yet!) have the horses to be a very successful program, but for pete's sake this is college football, and I don't understand why you don't come to the damn games, because your not going makes it harder for us to get where we want to be. Chicken and egg people, jeez."

It really seems like he is burning out beating his head against the "fan base" that we have. They've done everything but give tickets away.

And I will say it again, "If they put a better product on the field..." is a bull argument in college football. Just pick a pro team to follow and be done with it. Which is what I suspect a lot of folks in upstate have done.

We all know that if 49,550 packed the Dome six times each Fall we might do better on the recruiting trail. That being said, we're hardly an anomaly on that front -- bad teams tend to draw poorly. Everyone loves to compare our attendance to the cream of the SEC and Big Ten, but that's basically insane. We're not that, and we're not really up against most of those schools for recruits anyway.

Think of it this way... SU drew 40K/game this year and we finished last in the Big East. The last place teams in the Big Ten, Indiana, Minnesota and Illinois, drew 41K, 47K and 49K respectively. The last place teams in the ACC, Maryland, Duke, and BC, drew 42K, 24K and 36K respectively. The last place team in the Big 12, Kansas, drew 42K. Hell, we outdrew UConn (36K), Cincinnati (32K), and were within range of Rutgers (43K) and Pitt (46K).

I'm not saying our fanbase is great, but I think our fanbase is more typical than most want to admit. We've lost A LOT of games for a decade. And we still average around 40K and manage to pop over 45K on occassion. I mean we had 42K in the house for a Friday night game against USF. You know who else we drew 42K for?... Rutgers... on a Saturday afternoon in 1998... the week after we crushed Michigan in the Big House with Donovan McNabb on the team.

I mean I get the frustration, I'd like to see a sellout every game too. But I think using attendance as an excuse for recruiting is kind of lame. OPA posted that every team we lost to in that 0-5 stretch, save for UConn, had better talent that us. I might buy that. We also either outdrew, or drew comparably, to all those teams. So what's the excuse, really? How did Cincy build a program when drawing 24K a game to their bandbox? How did Schiano improve recruiting playing in front of nobody in NJ? Just sounds like excuses to me.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We all know that if 49,550 packed the Dome six times each Fall we might do better on the recruiting trail. That being said, we're hardly an anomaly on that front -- bad teams tend to draw poorly. Everyone loves to compare our attendance to the cream of the SEC and Big Ten, but that's basically insane. We're not that, and we're not really up against most of those schools for recruits anyway.

Think of it this way... SU drew 40K/game this year and we finished last in the Big East. The last place teams in the Big Ten, Indiana, Minnesota and Illinois, drew 41K, 47K and 49K respectively. The last place teams in the ACC, Maryland, Duke, and BC, drew 42K, 24K and 36K respectively. The last place team in the Big 12, Kansas, drew 42K. Hell, we outdrew UConn (36K), Cincinnati (32K), and were within range of Rutgers (43K) and Pitt (46K).

I'm not saying our fanbase is great, but I think our fanbase is more typical than most want to admit. We've lost A LOT of games for a decade. And we still average around 40K and manage to pop over 45K on occassion. I mean we had 42K in the house for a Friday night game against USF. You know who else we drew 42K for?... Rutgers... on a Saturday afternoon in 1998... the week after we crushed Michigan in the Big House with Donovan McNabb on the team.

I mean I get the frustration, I'd like to see a sellout every game too. But I think using attendance as an excuse for recruiting is kind of lame. OPA posted that every team we lost to in that 0-5 stretch, save for UConn, had better talent that us. I might buy that. We also either outdrew, or drew comparably, to all those teams. So what's the excuse, really? How did Cincy build a program when drawing 24K a game to their bandbox? How did Schiano improve recruiting playing in front of nobody in NJ? Just sounds like excuses to me.

Tend to agree, I would actually like to have two back to back say 9-4and 10-3 seasons and see what happens to the attendance after that, it would really put some things to the test, I would imagine that we certainly see a decent improvement, the fact is we have SUCKED for a long time and the diehards are whack jobs like us or bluehairs who keep dying off, sad but true, a kid who is 23-24 probably doesn't even remember the McNabb years

 

[GoSU96]

We all know that if 49,550 packed the Dome six times each Fall we might do better on the recruiting trail. That being said, we're hardly an anomaly on that front -- bad teams tend to draw poorly. Everyone loves to compare our attendance to the cream of the SEC and Big Ten, but that's basically insane. We're not that, and we're not really up against most of those schools for recruits anyway.

Think of it this way... SU drew 40K/game this year and we finished last in the Big East. The last place teams in the Big Ten, Indiana, Minnesota and Illinois, drew 41K, 47K and 49K respectively. The last place teams in the ACC, Maryland, Duke, and BC, drew 42K, 24K and 36K respectively. The last place team in the Big 12, Kansas, drew 42K. Hell, we outdrew UConn (36K), Cincinnati (32K), and were within range of Rutgers (43K) and Pitt (46K).

I'm not saying our fanbase is great, but I think our fanbase is more typical than most want to admit. We've lost A LOT of games for a decade. And we still average around 40K and manage to pop over 45K on occassion. I mean we had 42K in the house for a Friday night game against USF. You know who else we drew 42K for?... Rutgers... on a Saturday afternoon in 1998... the week after we crushed Michigan in the Big House with Donovan McNabb on the team.

I mean I get the frustration, I'd like to see a sellout every game too. But I think using attendance as an excuse for recruiting is kind of lame. OPA posted that every team we lost to in that 0-5 stretch, save for UConn, had better talent that us. I might buy that. We also either outdrew, or drew comparably, to all those teams. So what's the excuse, really? How did Cincy build a program when drawing 24K a game to their bandbox? How did Schiano improve recruiting playing in front of nobody in NJ? Just sounds like excuses to me.

The answer is time, stability, and investment.

Schiano was in year 11 and (putting aside whether or not they could afford it) a huge investment in infrastructure, and Cinci has had a very stable (even with the coaching changes) and succesful program going back to Dantoni, and when Dantoni took over Cinci wasn't horrible. And even then he went 7-5, 4-7 his first two years before the program took off.

 

[Scooch]

Tend to agree, I would actually like to have two back to back say 9-4and 10-3 seasons and see what happens to the attendance after that, it would really put some things to the test, I would imagine that we certainly see a decent improvement, the fact is we have SUCKED for a long time and the diehards are whack jobs like us or bluehairs who keep dying off, sad but true, **** a kid who is 23-24 probably doesn't even remember the McNabb years

I think our attendance would perk up demonstrably if we had a couple of 9+ win seasons. I mean this past year we drew 42K for Rutgers when we were 3-1, and then drew 45K two weeks later for WVU. Historically, when we've been good our attendance is best in November. Look back at the 90s and we were drawing 47-49K for all those games against BC, Pitt, WVU and Miami. If we hadn't totally the bed this year it's not outrageous to think that we would have drawn 44K+ for USF and Cincy.

I mean we're not talking about playing in an 80K seat stadium here. SU's attendance range is really narrow, relatively speaking. Going from 40K to, say, 45K+, by winning more than 4.3 games a year, which is what we have average for the past TEN YEARS, seems doable to me.

 

[Scooch]

The answer is time, stability, and investment.

Schiano was in year 11 and (putting aside whether or not they could afford it) a huge investment in infrastructure, and Cinci has had a very stable (even with the coaching changes) and succesful program going back to Dantoni, and when Dantoni took over Cinci wasn't horrible. And even then he went 7-5, 4-7 his first two years before the program took off.

What does that have to do with the fans? How does Marrone saying to hell with the fans help time, stability or investment? I'm not sure I follow.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Agreed, Dantonio build a team with a bunch of tough, hard nosed kids, sprinkled in a few great athletes at skills, played great defense, ran a power O and the Kelly came in with his offense and capitalized by building a qb out of what he had. I believe that Dantonio would have had equal success at Cinci that those 2 or 3 years. He is a great coach, IMO. In fact, I tend to think that Kelly road Dantonio's coat tails a bit at Cinci. I think both are good coaches, but if I am picking one I take Dantonio all day.

Like I said, I have no issue with Marrone being a hard ass, just win more games, score some points, don't care how, there are so many coaches out there like marrone that are very succesful. Dantonio being one, granted Dantonio will throw in a few ridiuclous trick plays here and there

 

[GoSU96]

Go what did you think of the play calling this year? Please dont answer about a lack of talent just focus on the play calling. Thanks

Play calling, how exactly am I supposed to judge that?

It's easy to focus on the plays that don't work, but I never see anybody spend too much time commenting when things go right.

 

[IthacaMatt]

IMO (total guess) what is killing him is the fan base. Maybe the "extended Syracuse community" isn't what he remembered it being. He has said it indirectly in public, but he probably wishes he could say it outright: "Look folks, we were just about the worst program in D-1A when I took over and we have continuing obstacles to overcome, and we didn't (don't yet!) have the horses to be a very successful program, but for pete's sake this is college football, and I don't understand why you don't come to the damn games, because your not going makes it harder for us to get where we want to be. Chicken and egg people, jeez."

It really seems like he is burning out beating his head against the "fan base" that we have. They've done everything but give tickets away.

And I will say it again, "If they put a better product on the field..." is a bull argument in college football. Just pick a pro team to follow and be done with it. Which is what I suspect a lot of folks in upstate have done.

Well, the football they play has been pretty awful to watch for a long time. Greggers was awful. P&D bored us to death with their conservative, play not to lose mentality for their final years here, and now Dougie, the mastermind of the Saints offense, delivers to us the Baltimore Ravens. It's just ugly football and not fun to watch. Geez, throw the damn ball down the field. Stop running up the middle behind your 250 pound center on first down. This ain't rocket science. Keep hitting people and attacking on defense, and throw the ball around.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You do realize that those are total yards based on an unequal number of games, right? Team stats are not measured by total yards.

This year, they didn't finish in the 100's in any category.

That's not a tremendous accomplishment, but if people want to argue facts, try to get the basics right.

Hey, they didn't finish in the 100s, but they were damn close:

SSING YARDS

227.8​

65thOverall​

RUSHING YARDS

120.4​

95thOverall​

POINTS FOR

24.2​

84thOverall​

POINTS AGAINST

28.5​

73rd​

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, the football they play has been pretty awful to watch for a long time. Greggers was awful. P&D bored us to death with their conservative, play not to lose mentality for their final years here, and now Dougie, the mastermind of the Saints offense, delivers to us the Baltimore Ravens. It's just ugly football and not fun to watch. Geez, throw the damn ball down the field. Stop running up the middle behind your 250 pound center on first down. This ain't rocket science. Keep hitting people and attacking on defense, and throw the ball around.

Yup. People keep saying all they want to see is a winner, but I don't think you fill the Dome on a winner alone. You fill the Dome when the team wins and the fans have fun watching it.

Last year the team didn't win and the fans didn't have fun watching, so...