The Doug Marrone "Changes" article from the PS is a must read

[Aweart23]

we were expected to lose those games because of the EPIC collapse-

anyone who follows the program has to be skid-dish about marrones offense -he has done zero with it in 3 years-done nothing this off season other than spout coach speak to fix it-

add in his "hell with you" to the fans

i am honestly starting to believe instead of think he isnt the right man for the job-guy is way too over strung to run a program-his move closer to assistants so he can hover over them even more is another sign-

he thinks it wont work unless he is in charge-

the team will play as tight as he acts this season just like the skid last year

 

[Cuseregular]

Article was very good. Told me 3 things. On specials we're tweaking some punt coverage things and banking a lot on the freshman K/O guy. On offense Nassib will run more but there will be some packages for Hunt. On defense we're gonna try to coach up the DB's and get more pressure from the DL and not blitz as much.

Sent from my DROIDX

Hunt huh? Here's my prediction and (to quote the illustrious poster from the bball board) I'm never wrong. Broyld emerges in the spring leaving Hunt behind to ultimately transfer. Guess we'll see.

 

[Orangetradition44]

You're not really suggesting that he's pulling back access because he's afraid of negative responses from internet forum members, are you?

I think 2/3's is a fair ratio, because we are about 1/3 of the way to where we want to be. And just because it's bitching, doesn't mean it is wrong. And I don't see any of the bitching as just unfair complaining. There are actual issues and points raised... most of wish you ignore or call "BS".

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.

 

[Millhouse]

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.

fwiw, my disappointment with him is about the offense. i don't care one bit if he stops shmoozing, don't care if i ever meet him, i'm as disinterested in meeting him as he is in meeting me - nothing against him, i just think it's weird how much people want to get to know athletes and coaches.

 

[OrangePA]

we were expected to lose those games because of the EPIC collapse-

anyone who follows the program has to be skid-dish about marrones offense -he has done zero with it in 3 years-done nothing this off season other than spout coach speak to fix it-

add in his "hell with you" to the fans

i am honestly starting to believe instead of think he isnt the right man for the job-guy is way too over strung to run a program-his move closer to assistants so he can hover over them even more is another sign-

he thinks it wont work unless he is in charge-

the team will play as tight as he acts this season just like the skid last year

Wow.

I think you're way off base.

The fact is that USF, Cincy, Louisville, Rutgers, and Pitt all had more talent than the Orange.

Even before the season began we were expected to lose to USF, Cincy, Louisville and Pitt. If you felt otherwise you were engaging in wishful thinking.

Some figured for whatever reason that Rutgers would be a push over this season. I certainly didn't.
The Rutgers defense is very talented and will be very talented next season.

I think your concerns will be proven incorrect by the end of the next year.

 

[kcsu]

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.

There is an old saying Go. If you cant take the heat in the kitchen... Doug needs to step up remain accountable to the entire program and win this year. The time to win is now. He is no longer a rookie coach. Grob is long gone. It is his system. It is his players, his coaches. Time to see what he is made of. Lets hope for program he is up to the task

 

[rosconey]

Wow.

I think you're way off base.

The fact is that USF, Cincy, Louisville, Rutgers, and Pitt all had more talent than the Orange.

Even before the season began we were expected to lose to USF, Cincy, Louisville and Pitt. If you felt otherwise you were engaging in wishful thinking.

Some figured for whatever reason that Rutgers would be a push over this season. I certainly didn't.
The Rutgers defense is very talented and will be very talented next season.

I think your concerns will be proven incorrect by the end of the next year.

more talent like wv?

more talent south florida? team was a train wreck

its not about paper talent

its about on field production-
no one thought those team's were that good

we weren't out talented -its was coaching plain and simple-the more strung out marrone got the tighter the players got

with some below average special team play we would have been bowl bound-we couldnt even get that bad-

thats all on marrone for doing nothing to correct a issue seen from game 1- his first year other than fire crazy bob

 

[Noexcuse]

My memory may be failing, but it seems to me that the offense he is now calling for is the one he was planning to install once he got his guys in place, and by guys I mean predominantly a qb who could run that offense. Year 4 coming up and it is still a work in progress with a seeming square peg trying to be forced into a round hole.

 

[billsin01]

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.

I get your point and I agree with it and I do my fair share of bitching, though I agree with Millhouse that meeting celebrities/coaches/politicians/athletes isn't something I care about in the least. But I will say that while I like to avoid critics as much as humanly possible, the absolutely annoying schmoozing comes with the territory. Don't want to do it? Be a coordinator. Seriously, it's a legit option. But DM's role as HC is partly to do that inane BS.

 

[Scooch]

fwiw, my disappointment with him is about the offense. i don't care one bit if he stops shmoozing, don't care if i ever meet him, i'm as disinterested in meeting him as he is in meeting me - nothing against him, i just think it's weird how much people want to get to know athletes and coaches.

It's called star-ing.

On another note, during the season we hear a lot of people respond to negativity with things like "let the season play out and evaluate things then". And I tend to agree. So here's a "macro" observation that has me terribly discouraged...

In Marrone's three years we are 2-10 in November. Just a horrendous record. Now some will argue that for years 1 and 2 that kind of slide was to be expected given our depth issues. And I'll concede that, although our depth issues were largely self-inflicted. As a comparison, the three years prior to Marrone our November record was 3-9.

I don't know why we keep collapsing like this, but it's gotta stop, obviously.

 

[GoSU96]

You're not really suggesting that he's pulling back access because he's afraid of negative responses from internet forum members, are you?

I think 2/3's is a fair ratio, because we are about 1/3 of the way to where we want to be. And just because it's bitching, doesn't mean it is wrong. And I don't see any of the bitching as just unfair complaining. There are actual issues and points raised... most of wish you ignore or call "BS".

Where did I say afraid.

More like it's just a waste of time.

This tread is typical because it's the same people saying the same things they always do, relentlessly. Whether they are armchair coaches or amateur psychologists they take an innocuous article and use it as a jumping off point for their standard complaints.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Time to see what he is made of. Lets hope for program he is up to the task

We've seen what Doug Marrone is made of since day one. He's determined, stubborn, and not afraid to pull the plug when something isn't working. He dumped Rob Spence and Bob Casullo before the 2009 and 2010 seasons were even finished. This year, he's putting special teams on his own shoulders.

He's also willing to let others make their own decisions. I don't get the whole "micro-manager" thing. He's given his Defensive Coordinator lots of space there- bringing in Michigan guys and recruiting players who seem to fit the scheme.

The offense may not run like a top, but it's not like we're trying to run a plan that doesn't fit the personnel (ie 2005). And that may reflect on the talent as well as the scheme.

But to say Marrone needs to step it up this season is message board hyperbole. He's evolved as a coach and program CEO, but he certainly hasn't changed that much since he came in.

 

[Scooch]

This whole thread shows why he's pulling back access. Saying anything is just another excuse for the usual suspects to go off.

98 posts, 2/3rds bitching.

Funny how losing 5 straight to close a season will bring out some negativity. I mean just it's just really odd, who would've figured?

:bang:

I don't really care if Marrone doesn't want to hit the rubber chicken circuit anymore, but (1) as others said, it IS part of the job, and (2) everyone should now shut the heck up about our crappy facilities. People donate money to a program they feel a connection to. If the coach wants to hole up in his assistants offices and ignore the fanbase that's his right, but then people also have the right to feel disconnected and close their wallets.

 

[GoSU96]

It's called star-*******.

On another note, during the season we hear a lot of people respond to negativity with things like "let the season play out and evaluate things then". And I tend to agree. So here's a "macro" observation that has me terribly discouraged...

In Marrone's three years we are 2-10 in November. Just a horrendous record. Now some will argue that for years 1 and 2 that kind of slide was to be expected given our depth issues. And I'll concede that, although our depth issues were largely self-inflicted. As a comparison, the three years prior to Marrone our November record was 3-9.

I don't know why we keep collapsing like this, but it's gotta stop, obviously.

It's a couple of things. Some has to do with depth and guys getting knicked up and not having second unit players able to perform at near the same level.

It's also that they are still limited, and as games get on tape the problems they have are obvious to opponents and get exploited. They have been able to do a limited number of things decently to start the year, but once those get taken away, there is no counter.

 

[Scooch]

Where did I say afraid.

More like it's just a waste of time.

This tread is typical because it's the same people saying the same things they always do, relentlessly. Whether they are armchair coaches or amateur psychologists they take an innocuous article and use it as a jumping off point for their standard complaints.

How often is Doug directly exposed to these nasty people though? I get the sense that those luncheons are all back-slaps and grab-ass. Is he being accosted at Wegman's? I doubt it, CNYers are a pretty tame bunch.

Once again I'll say, if a dozen people writing negative stuff on a lightly-trafficked message board is causing so much turmoil then we're all hopelessly *cked.

 

[Scooch]

It's a couple of things. Some has to do with depth and guys getting knicked up and not having second unit players able to perform at near the same level.

It's also that they are still limited, and as games get on tape the problems they have are obvious to opponents and get exploited. They have been able to do a limited number of things decently to start the year, but once those get taken away, there is no counter.

That all makes sense. What's discouraging to me is that these collapses are happening to Big East opponents, who are generally crappy too. And most of them have had new coaching staffs like us. Maybe more depth, but not SEC-level!

 

[44PRIDE]

"Epic"

Give me a break.

The Houston Oilers giving up what, a 35-38 point lead - I don't recall the number - in the second half, is epic.

The Pittsburgh Pirates having 19 straight losing seasons is epic.

Losing five games in a row in which in four out of the games, you were expected to lose, is not "epic."

Have some perspective.

We need one win.

We play a substandard Rutgers squad and lose.
We play a UConn squad with a retooled coaching staff and lose.
We play a Pitt squad on their second replacement coach and lose.
We play a reeling USF squad and lose

Call it what you will, but losing 5 games to those teams...especially after you just whooped up on West Virginia...is an EPIC letdown by all parts of this football program.

 

[billsin01]

That all makes sense. What's discouraging to me is that these collapses are happening to Big East opponents, who are generally crappy too. And most of them have had new coaching staffs like us. Maybe more depth, but not SEC-level!

The only counterpoint -- and I agree the BE has blown the last two years -- is that I think it's generally tougher to win in conference where people are extremely familiar with what you want to do. As I'm typing that, however, it feels like an excuse.

 

[Scooch]

The only counterpoint -- and I agree the BE has blown the last two years -- is that I think it's generally tougher to win in conference where people are extremely familiar with what you want to do. As I'm typing that, however, it feels like an excuse.

I agree with that... in theory. But how familiar would these BE teams be with us, really? Plus all of them have had new staffs come in since Marrone took over, so I suspect there's little institutional knowledge.

Yeah, it's an excuse.

I think 90% of it is a combination of depth and Xs and Os... but 10% of me thinks that Marrone's so-tight-that-if-you-shove-coal-up-his-ass-in-2-weeks-you'd-have-a-diamond demeanor doesn't help.

 

[SUFan44]

Hope the JUCO AA transfer can generate a pass rush on the edge, and D. Davis shows some improvement in his reads after a year to digest. Those two things, IMO, will improve the D greatly.

That, and having four starters in the secondary that don't get hurt every five minutes.

S. Thomas is really good, hope he can stay healthy this year. IMO, P. Thomas is addition by subtraction. His tackling last season was atrocious, and he was seemingly out of position on at least 30% of the plays.

I hope whoever takes over as the starter at FS at least wraps up his tackles, rather than trying to get on ESPN and allowing 5-10 more yards because he goes for the big hit.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We need one win.

We play a substandard Rutgers squad and lose.
We play a UConn squad with a retooled coaching staff and lose.
We play a Pitt squad on their second replacement coach and lose.
We play a reeling USF squad and lose

Call it what you will, but losing 5 games to those teams...especially after you just whooped up on West Virginia...is an EPIC letdown by all parts of this football program.

Well really when you think of it we are not really better on paper than any of those teams, you could make the argument that UCONN is probably a game we should have won and had a chance. The Rutgers game was the game we should have won. I am just saying people keep harping on a bad bIG east but we are part of that bad big east and from the looks of it are the worst of the worst. Believe me, I was beside myself when the 5 game slide was going down and I have expressed a ton of doubt in Marrone for sure and I don't think he survives another losing season but for coaching purposes, not for schmoozing purposes. I for one think marrone is doing a great job post Pitt game, he is going back to what he thinks will work and not listening to anyone but his top assistants. Hey- if he fails then so be it, it will be on his own accord.

Bitching about every little move he makes in the off season is ridiculous. I posted about a week ago what Marrone preceived the problems to be and Go has been saying it for 2 months now, the article is basically verbatim. People can't get it through their heads that Marrone is not getting rid of Hackett, quite the contrary. Shasfer has given the keys to the defense, Marrone will focus on details, specials, and making sure Hackett has the tools to succeed.

I still maintain that Henderson's presense will be felt almost immediately, he will barking and barking loudly from day one

 

[billsin01]

The offense may not doesn't run like a top, but it's not like we're trying to run a plan that doesn't fit the personnel (ie 2005). And that may reflect on the talent as well as the scheme.

I generally agree with your post, BUT ...

1) I fixed one small clerical error for you.

2) this line of thinking has to stop. Seriously folks. Year 1? Fine. Year 2? Eh, OK I'll give it to you. But year 4? What happens if the O stinks again this year (which is at least a distinct possibility if not a probability)?

At the end of the day we're all aware there were some talent deficiencies. But you have to, at some point, start running your offense and, for that matter, moving the ball. There may be an example or two but the number of stories about offenses that are installed and struggle for four or five years and then start lighting up scoreboards all over the place are close to non-existent.

 

[Orangello]

It's also that they are still limited, and as games get on tape the problems they have are obvious to opponents and get exploited. They have been able to do a limited number of things decently to start the year, but once those get taken away, there is no counter.[/quote]

But that's true about any program. By the mid-point of any season every one of your future opponents has tape from your first 5-6 games and can see what you can and can't do. It has to be more than that. FWIW's, if the problem is in fact the O/QB's "limited" repitoire, then according to DM, this is only going to get worse since he specifically said they are going to cut down on/simplify the plays/schemes next season rather than incresing the complexity of same.

IMHO the lack of depth combined with the inability/unwillingness to adjust schemes in game as needed combine for the second half of the season collapse.

 

[OrangePA]

We need one win.

We play a substandard Rutgers squad and lose.
We play a UConn squad with a retooled coaching staff and lose.
We play a Pitt squad on their second replacement coach and lose.
We play a reeling USF squad and lose

Call it what you will, but losing 5 games to those teams...especially after you just whooped up on West Virginia...is an EPIC letdown by all parts of this football program.

We lost a game against a Rutgers team that had far more talent than we did. We still should have won the game, but the Rutgers defense was probably the best defense we faced all year.

Going into the season, I thought that Rutgers would be a very tough game. Heck, we won in 2010 by a last minute FG and could have lost that game very easily.

Pitt has had far more talent than we have for years. I did not expect to win that game at Pitt, regardless of the coaching change. Indeed, by the time we got arrived in Pittsburgh, the new staff had been in place for essentially an entire season.

USF was far more talented than we were this season. They were far more athletic, from the QB position to the WR position to the OL and DL positions. They were bigger, longer and faster - they were a better team.

Cincy also had more talent. They had every defensive starter back from 2010. They have a great RB and had a great QB who couldn't play against the Orange but who was replaced by a solid back-up. I thought that Cincy would be a very tough game when the season began.

Louisville has more talent than we do as well. From QB to both lines.

You can try to frame it all you want, but most of the time it comes down to talent and in every game we lost - other than perhaps UConn - we had less talent than the opposing team.

Losing to more talented teams is not "epic."

Everything went right against WVU - everything. But that doesn't mean that everything would go right the rest of the way. I'm sure that WVU put everybody else on notice. And, WVU was a hard team to figure this past year. The Neers put 70 points on Clemson in the Orange Bowl. We all know that 9 times out of 10, that's not happening again and more likely, Clemson beats WVU more often than not.

Again, if you look at it man for man, the Orange was still lagging behind last year. That is changing but this process will take time.

 

[kcsu]

How about a simple reasons. We may have a coach who is geared to running an NFL O with NFL talent and isnt capable of running a College O with college talent.