The Head Coach has been the issue since Day 1

[Zelda Zonk]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

Not sure what the delta is between “majorly improved” from last year and still missing the tournament.

But, No, and this is adjacent to the scenario I’ve been discussing since last year. Even if we get in, the assessment of his coaching should be made independent of the results. If you can look at the games and decide the team is well coached, he should stay. I haven’t seen that yet. And I think it’s silly to think that we have been holding back as to not show our hand before the real season begins—my own ‘prayer,’ as the only excuse I could think of. We need to have been executing from the start in preparation for the real stuff.

 

[Willy75]

I know we think he's crazy, but he brings intensity that we have lacked for more years than I can count. This is what I would love to see out of AA. Especially when we are playing soft and lazy.

I was at that game with my brother who's a UConn alum. They defended like it was early March.

 

[Eric15]

This one I have no recollection of

Syracuse 72-65 Memphis (Dec 20, 2008) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Syracuse Orange vs. Memphis Tigers NCAAM game from December 20, 2008 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

This was the game where Devo was suspended due to assaulting a student. I vaguely remember Paul Harris making a late corner three and waving to Dick Vitale.

 

[Surfan06001]

Paul Harris making a late corner three

That doesn’t sound right

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We had exquisite talent…but you can’t tell me that historically jbs team didn’t suffer from effort, focus work ethic type issues.

I’m not even saying this was universally or consistently the case. But even though my memory is cruddy, I remember very vividly some Lawrinson lounge conversations after games where we talked about how other teams played like they needed it and we would come out like we were expected to win. And then we’d ‘turn it on’ and win, and then it was like, ‘wish we came out like that.’

Had many conversations with my co-worker who was a rabid St John’s fan/alum, about the same things in the 90s. He pretty much would say something like ‘Can’t argue with the number of games he’s won. But, you always think there should have been more.’

I don’t know about “work ethic.” I wasn’t at practices. Effort is hard to define—I don’t even criticize the effort from these last two squads. Some players look like their hair is on fire and some are smoother. When I played football as tailback, I felt like I was in max-effort, full sprint, but coaches/dad said it looked like I wasn’t running hard. Even though no one was catching me. On our team, some players actually have a chance to defend if they’re right on top of an offensive player, some need to have space to react. Then there’s the ‘perception’ aspect. A lot of our fans thought Jason Hart was an incredible defender. I thought he was a paper tiger—all the motions and postures, but those weren’t actually doing anything….

 

[Cusefan0307]

We had exquisite talent…but you can’t tell me that historically jbs team didn’t suffer from effort, focus work ethic type issues.

Richmond and Vermont tourney losses for this exact reason.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Richmond and Vermont tourney losses for this exact reason.

I think Billy Edelin and the Wright kids being suspended had something to do with the Vermont loss.

T-Rob's BS technical didn't help.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think Billy Edelin and the Wright kids being suspended had something to do with the Vermont loss.

T-Rob's BS technical didn't help.

Edelin hadn't played in a month and we still won the BET without him. Wright bros meh...They barely played.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Richmond and Vermont tourney losses for this exact reason.

He had some bad losses in almost 50 years of head coaching?? Shocking! I can't believe of all things today we are re-litigating the career of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

[baggerbob]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

No

 

[Eric15]

Not sure what the delta is between “majorly improved” from last year and still missing the tournament.

We went 14-19 (7-13) last year -- by far the worst of my lifetime. If we were hypothetically the first team out of the tourney this year, we would probably be something like 21-11 (10-8) give or take a game or two. That would be a considerable improvement over last year.

That said, I agree with everyone else that it's NCAA or bust for Autry this year.

 

[Eric15]

I think Billy Edelin and the Wright kids being suspended had something to do with the Vermont loss.

T-Rob's BS technical didn't help.

He deserved to get T'ed up. He blatantly slapped the backboard with two hands after a dunk.

Warrick's 10 turnovers were the main reason we lost the Vermont game. If he turns the ball over 8 or 9 times we probably win.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

He deserved to get T'ed up. He blatantly slapped the backboard with two hands after a dunk.

Warrick's 10 turnovers were the main reason we lost the Vermont game. If he turns the ball over 8 or 9 times we probably win.

Or if the parking lot was 3 feet farther away.

 

[NKR1978]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

No. Because if we're that close, a slightly better coach would have got us in.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Warrick's 10 turnovers were the main reason we lost the Vermont game. If he turns the ball over 8 or 9 times we probably win.

Incorrect. They coach who won the natty two years ago just rolled the ball out and did not care about effort.

 

[Surfan06001]

Hypothetical question: let’s say we are majorly improved this year, but we are one of the first teams that miss the NCAA tourney and we are a #1 seed in the NIT. Does Red deserve Year 4 in this scenario?

No

This is the definition of sports purgatory

 

[Eric15]

No

This is the definition of sports purgatory

Well clearly my hypothetical question was a dud.

 

[Surfan06001]

Well clearly my hypothetical question was a dud.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I'll put it this way - there is a reason there are still die hard fans in here dissecting a team that has been asz for 10 years. There is a reason I live and breathe this sheeit to this day despite how bad it has been. Because we had a freaking standard and left it all out on the floor in an elite conference that took no prisoners. Holy crap I cannot believe that people are here throwing the past under the bus because the present is terrible. Here is one. Maybe I need to post some more to refresh some peoples memory. I'm sure a pile of rocks coaching would have got the same result. Take a look at all the lack of focus effort and work ethic:

"Unbelievable," that you think you're proving a universal point by citing one reference. Pretty sure no one here is saying every syracuse team played without heart, determination, or worth ethic. Christ. It's "unbelievable" that 'adults' can't parse a bit of criticism—of teams we love, watch every game and discuss every day—without getting their undergarments into wads. Can't deal with a simple critical comment without blasting it into hyperbolic frenzy... "Pile of rocks?" Strawman much?

"Holy crap?" The past is being "thrown under the bus?"

Relax, Francis. Yes, we all agree: everything is perfect now, just as it always has been. No one associated with the program is under any scrutiny. This was all just a bad dream.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We went 14-19 (7-13) last year -- by far the worst of my lifetime. If we were hypothetically the first team out of the tourney this year, we would probably be something like 21-11 (10-8) give or take a game or two. That would be a considerable improvement over last year.

That said, I agree with everyone else that it's NCAA or bust for Autry this year.

Holy. I must have a block or something—did not remember we were 14-19!
Okay, yeah, "majorly improving" could still leave us considerably short.

 

[bozophobe]

It's puzzling how so many people here over the years have posted critical comments about Autry but felt the need to preface them with opening lines like "I love Adrian" or " Autry is a great guy," buuuuut...

 

[Eric15]

It's puzzling how so many people here over the years have posted critical comments about Autry but felt the need to preface them with opening lines like "I love Adrian" or " Autry is a great guy," buuuuut...

Eh, that’s just people trying to be nice and make it clear that it’s not personal in any way.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Eh, that’s just people trying to be nice and make it clear that it’s not personal in any way.

It's hard not to like the guy. On a 'personal' basis. It feels icky to 'rip' someone on one level when you feel like you like him on others. I really dislike every sentiment i have about wanting someone else as HC. But, what's best for the program in the long run is most important.

 

[SUskibum]

I think looking at it overall is one way. But JB also filled up with cupcakes too. I would look more at league records and such. It was a consistent pattern amongst our best teams talent wise. Anything else is revisionist

Cupcakes are the old go to but they don't explain JB having the best record in the entire Big East (other than late arriving L'Ville and their short 8 year stay at the very end with Pitino).

Better than UConn, Gtown, Nova, Marquette... all of em. I can't find it but I have seen data that he had a winning record against every coach including Calhoun (Again only Pitino and L'Ville had a 2 game edge in their short stint)

Not to mention the 10th most NCAA wins and the 12th most final four's (I think tourney games are hard to win?)

You can be bullish on AA turning it around without pulling revisionist history about JB (who wanted GMac btw)

 

[NKR1978]

Well clearly my hypothetical question was a dud.

CBI of hypotheticals.