The huge burly SU big man.

[pwong]

Centers hate us. Why? No idea. But no quality centers ever want to play here.

If you’re a center who want to go to the NBA, you need to show you can guard pick and rolls in space not anchor a 2-3 zone.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Christmas was our last center drafted, but he was a 2nd rounder. Those only really count if they break through (like Grant) or if you have a bunch of them you can point to as a track record of getting guys to the NBA.

 

[Manleymen]

So is this not a glaring problem that we cannot get at least one of two bruising bigs to at least battle other teams with at least a semblance of force? If we cannot count on that then the pressure on our slim front line to battle inside and do the dirty work against ranked teams is too much to ask. And thus the problem becomes the antiquated 2-3 zone where we cannot cover outside baseline shooting Unless we continually recruit non bangers inside. Meaning forego the zone.

 

[longtimefan]

Did he recruit any notable big men? Technique is fine, but you cannot teach big guys moving opponents off the block if you do not have the bulk. That is the focus here.

He won a national championship at Cal with Darrell Imhoff back in the day. Beat Jerry West and WVa in the final. Lost the Final to OSU (Jerry Lucas, John Havlicek, Bobby Knight !) the next season.

Centers who attended his Big Man Camp won NCAA and NBA championships.

 

[dollarbill44]

Did he recruit any notable big men? Technique is fine, but you cannot teach big guys moving opponents off the block if you do not have the bulk. That is the focus here.

Moving a guy is moving a guy. A big guy moves a big guy the same way a small guy moves a small guy. You don't need to be big to know leverage and balance.

I think the main problem with recruiting bigger bodies is the zone defense.

 

[dollarbill44]

That is right on target. You would believe in the past five years if we went hard after a big bruising enforcer with some offensive skills it would make a world of difference. At some point we need to drop the narcissistic 2-3 zone and do what the top 25 or 64 teams - except Miami has. Get that recruit NOW. Stubbornness leads to stagnation and it has reared its ugly head for many years Running.

I'm not really sure what your argument is. Are you saying the top 64 teams (save Miami?) have a big bruising "enforcer" - whatever that word means in college basketball these days? It's not the old Big East of the 1980s where scrums were common and you needed an Andre Hawkins or Derek Brower out there.
How many of these big, brutish men qoth any talent are really out there in college basketball in your estimation? I haven't seen that many.

I agree that the zone defense is a major challenge in recruiting the top centers.

 

[baggerbob]

Sure you can, if you have a backup (or even a student manager) who has the bulk. Coaches do not have to be totally hands-on.

He won a national championship at Cal with Darrell Imhoff back in the day. Beat Jerry West and WVa in the final. Lost the Final to OSU (Jerry Lucas, John Havlicek, Bobby Knight !) the next season.

Centers who attended his Big Man Camp won NCAA and NBA championships.

Darrell Imoff, the center who gave up 100 points to Wilt.

 

[longtimefan]

Darrell Imoff, the center who gave up 100 points to Wilt.

While every other center was only giving up 50 or 60 to The Stilt.

 

[Red Holzman]

While every other center was only giving up 50 or 60 to The Stilt.

I believe Wilt preferred "Big Dipper"!

 

[brian williams]

All of our positions are outmatched physically. Every other team looks bigger and stronger. Roster lists Edwards and Hima at 230. Hima seems to hold his own.
But we have length most years.

 

[SmilinBob]

I think the 2 centers has are good enough to win but the key to me and has always been is a 4 that can rebound and score. That to me is the missing link.

As for SU not getting bulk, look at the zone and see why the 4's and 5's are skinny as others have said, court coverage and the lack of true 5's and 4's to come to the Hill. Boeheim's zone has changed over the years and this is the byproduct of it.

 

[swish7]

I miss Otis Hill. You need someone that was a TE in HS and doesn't shy from contact and I don't care how tall they are.

Look at Baylor a few years back, how physically imposing their bigs were.

 

[CuseTG2003]

That is right on target. You would believe in the past five years if we went hard after a big bruising enforcer with some offensive skills it would make a world of difference. At some point we need to drop the narcissistic 2-3 zone and do what the top 25 or 64 teams - except Miami has. Get that recruit NOW. Stubbornness leads to stagnation and it has reared its ugly head for many years Running.

We went very hard after Donovan Clingan and were the first high major to offer him. His mom passed in recent years, and he wanted to stay close to family/home in CT. Can't fault him for that even though I loathe Hurley and UConn.

 

[Col. Bleep]

The Orange generally aren't a targeted landing spot for big men now.
It's doubtful they could even land Elvir Ovcina these days.

 

[Manleymen]

I'm not really sure what your argument is. Are you saying the top 64 teams (save Miami?) have a big bruising "enforcer" - whatever that word means in college basketball these days? It's not the old Big East of the 1980s where scrums were common and you needed an Andre Hawkins or Derek Brower out there.
How many of these big, brutish men qoth any talent are really out there in college basketball in your estimation? I haven't seen that many.

I agree that the zone defense is a major challenge in recruiting the top centers.

I am not sure how many big dudes are out there to cover, but if they are as rare as you suggest it further compounds our big man recruiting issue. They’re not required to be enforcers, just provide some extra beef and strength we rarely see. We will never get our lion’s share of strong inside guys. At this point I would be happy with one. For this program they are an endangered species.

 

[Madbiker]

Isn't there an edict that none of the centers we recruit can weigh more than 210 lbs at the time we recruit them?

 

[AlaskaSU]

This has always been an empty argument. The acknowledged godfather of big man coaching was Pete Newell, who was not a large person and never played the position. You either know the techniques and can teach them or you don't.

Discount perception at your own peril. Big kids do not perceive being taught by littles. It is a factor regardless of whether you think it is legitimate.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Hima says hello. He might be the big that can hold his own.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Hima says hello. He might be the big that can hold his own.

On defense

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I don't think that the best of the best C's want to deal with having to run out to the corner to contest 3's.

 

[Manleymen]

Does anyone have insight or knowledge of who are the top ten rebounding recruits or even top 20 in the nation and is Cuse going after any of them?