The if and when to extend Coach Babers thread

[BVille44]

I would like to see Babers given a pay raise following this season because things are finally trending in the right direction on the recruiting front. One of the biggest factors in Marrone leaving (per a friend of his who heard it from Doug directly) was the fact he was the lowest paid coach in the ACC and Gross was unwilling to even discuss a raise for him and his staff. He was really pissed off when Gross somehow found money in the budget to Shafer more money than Marrone after his departure.

 

[SUskibum]

This is college football, not corporate America. It doesn't matter if you extend him now for $1 million or in a two years for $2 million. If one of the big boys comes calling we would never be able to match their offer and the buyout would be child's play for such a school. The only thing an extension gets us is the appearance of recruiting stability and stops him from jumping to a peer. Extend him too early and SU doesn't have the resources to buy out his contract if it turns out his system only works in the Group of 5, not the Power 5. And until we see a team that isn't down 21 points in the first 7 minutes, I'm not convinced.

If you don't think there is a psychological difference for an employee that thinks they are either a. Underpaid b. Fairly paid or c. Richly paid, regardless of profession, then we can politely agree to disagree.

(The psychological difference manifests its self in many ways, and in aggregate, you get what you pay for.)

 

[OrangeTarheel]

A raise and contract extension is a good way of demonstrating respect and appreciation. For that reason alone it's a good idea, even if we're not in big boy school territory in terms of dollars.

Also agree with doing this earlier rather than later. If HCDB has a bad season we look stupid to reward that. If he has a great season then we rewarded what we knew all along -- he's a great coach.

One other thing -- the style of offense he uses is pretty unique and probably takes 2-3 recruiting cycles to get the right personnel in place. Is a big time school going to wait that long for the start of results?

 

[blizz]

...If one of the big boys comes calling we would never be able to match their offer and the buyout would be child's play for such a school...

Sorry, but this is wrong and I'm tired of seeing it repeated again and again. AD running at an 8.5 million surplus. No money?

The money and the resources are there. They're not being used, and I don't believe there is a commitment at the institutional level to unleash that latent potential. There is not a commitment to win, many don't think it's important. I think Wildhack and to a lesser extent Syverud value success on the field, but I'm not convinced they can overcome the administrative culture that is committed to disfunction and losing.

Dino has said on the record that what he values is the ability to compete for a national championship. While money is always an issue, I think it's a sideshow. It's clear to me that the goal that animates him is the chance to compete at the highest level. To do that at this point in his career, he has to win here. I think he will. Maybe not this year, but very soon. I think if he gets the tools to accomplish his goal here, he will stay. If not, he'll move on to a place that is committed to winning.

 

[Rocco]

Give him an extension during the bye week.

Make the buyout juicy if another school comes calling and wants to pay the $$$ for it. IF he still leaves, it gives SU a nice $$$ cushion to use for the next coach.

I really, really hope Dino doesn't leave here anytime soon. I think in 5 years we have the ability to be a consistent Top 25 team especially after he gets 3-4 full recruiting classes under his belt.

 

[elimunelson]

Sorry, but this is wrong and I'm tired of seeing it repeated again and again. AD running at an 8.5 million surplus. No money?

The money and the resources are there. They're not being used, and I don't believe there is a commitment at the institutional level to unleash that latent potential. There is not a commitment to win, many don't think it's important. I think Wildhack and to a lesser extent Syverud value success on the field, but I'm not convinced they can overcome the administrative culture that is committed to disfunction and losing.

Dino has said on the record that what he values is the ability to compete for a national championship. While money is always an issue, I think it's a sideshow. It's clear to me that the goal that animates him is the chance to compete at the highest level. To do that at this point in his career, he has to win here. I think he will. Maybe not this year, but very soon. I think if he gets the tools to accomplish his goal here, he will stay. If not, he'll move on to a place that is committed to winning.

what other tools does he need at this point? At some point, the coach needs to coach and put Ws up there. To me Syracuse football is not in the dark ages anymore. That excuse has been removed from the box. The team is now in a transition of becoming more to Dino's liking .That's on him, not the AD, not the IPF, not the fans. The school isn't going to get the tools like Alabama or Florida. If you think that's our comparison for the arms race, consider us having lost the battle.

Some days I wonder if we were too hard on Greg Robinson based on the extraneous things he never had at his disposal in the mid 2000s vs what Dino Babers has now. I'm being sarcastical but to me it comes down to having what our peer schools have (we're right there with Boston College, Rutgers, Uconn, Pitt in terms of school commitment to football) and performing.

I think Dino gets us there but to continue to ask for more and more for a program seems to be odd.

 

[Alsacs]

what other tools does he need at this point? At some point, the coach needs to coach and put Ws up there. To me Syracuse football is not in the dark ages anymore. That excuse has been removed from the box. The team is now in a transition of becoming more to Dino's liking .That's on him, not the AD, not the IPF, not the fans. The school isn't going to get the tools like Alabama or Florida. If you think that's our comparison for the arms race, consider us having lost the battle.

Some days I wonder if we were too hard on Greg Robinson based on the extraneous things he never had at his disposal in the mid 2000s vs what Dino Babers has now. I'm being sarcastical but to me it comes down to having what our peer schools have (we're right there with Boston College, Rutgers, Uconn, Pitt in terms of school commitment to football) and performing.

I think Dino gets us there but to continue to ask for more and more for a program seems to be odd.

Before Dino Babers who was the last Syracuse football coach with division 1 HC experience prior to being the SU coach?

Hint is a long time ago. We want Dino here long term thus pay him now.

 

[blizz]

what other tools does he need at this point? At some point, the coach needs to coach and put Ws up there. To me Syracuse football is not in the dark ages anymore. That excuse has been removed from the box. The team is now in a transition of becoming more to Dino's liking .That's on him, not the AD, not the IPF, not the fans. The school isn't going to get the tools like Alabama or Florida. If you think that's our comparison for the arms race, consider us having lost the battle.

Some days I wonder if we were too hard on Greg Robinson based on the extraneous things he never had at his disposal in the mid 2000s vs what Dino Babers has now. I'm being sarcastical but to me it comes down to having what our peer schools have (we're right there with Boston College, Rutgers, Uconn, Pitt in terms of school commitment to football) and performing.

I think Dino gets us there but to continue to ask for more and more for a program seems to be odd.

Not in the dark ages, I agree. But still dealing with the mentality that brought about the dark ages. The IPF, increased staffing, higher salaries, private jet service...those are all great improvements. I don't think we appreciate (nor are many being honest about) how long overdue those improvements are. Maybe we're on par with our peer schools, but those that you rattled off, what have they achieved in the last decade? Not much. Now aim higher...Louisville, Virginia Tech, Miami, Michigan State, Stanford...those programs were making these investments a decade ago. We are lacking in a number of areas. Housing, nutrition, competent medical staff. And that doesn't even touch the student and fan experience that has been so obviously mishandled and neglected. I think all of that comes back on the AD and University leadership.
As I said before, I think money is a relatively small issue. The facilities and processes to attract and develop great talent is lacking, more importantly the culture to enable a truly competitive program is broken.

 

[anomander]

SUAD has to go all-in on someone they think can ultimately win here. They don't have the luxury of sitting back and letting things play out a la Marrone. You have to buy some good will or any HC worth a damn will just end up moving on if they prove to be successful on the field. If Dino starts 3-0 in impressive fashion then give him an extension.

 

[HtownOrange]

I agree HCDB is worth more than what is he being paid. He agreed to the pay and knows that he has to prove himself to get increases. He is confident that will happen. No raise mid-season. He will have a winning season (6-6 with a bowl victory at worst). Whether he gets an increase this season or next, HC and AD will enter discussions when it is appropriate. The AD knows what he has in HCDB and he knows how to keep HCDB happy enough to stay.

As noted, if HCDB wants to go to a 'Bama or UT or such, they will simply out bid Syracuse. However, HCDB knows that Syracuse historically is a great football school and that he can build a perennial winner without the ridiculous expectation of winning the NC every year, which has value in and of itself.

 

[sufandu]

SUAD has to go all-in on someone they think can ultimately win here. They don't have the luxury of sitting back and letting things play out a la Marrone. You have to buy some good will or any HC worth a damn will just end up moving on if they prove to be successful on the field. If Dino starts 3-0 in impressive fashion then give him an extension.

If Wildhack decided to do it early I wouldn't complain, but it's too early to say they're just letting things play out. I think we have a little more wiggle room than 25% through the contract (it is a 5 year contract, right). Do you really think Dino would feel unappreciated if they waited until after year 2 of a 5 year contract? If we were about to begin year 4 of 5, some hand wringing would make sense.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Imo, Renegotiate/Extend current contract if/when he goes .500 or better.

 

[pattycuse]

SUAD has to go all-in on someone they think can ultimately win here. They don't have the luxury of sitting back and letting things play out a la Marrone. You have to buy some good will or any HC worth a damn will just end up moving on if they prove to be successful on the field. If Dino starts 3-0 in impressive fashion then give him an extension.

This to me hits the nail on the head. A one year extension with a $250K base pay raise (arbitrary #'s strictly for discussion purposes) along with staff raises (plus some degree of increase in the buyout clause to protect on the downside) buys SU a ton of goodwill should one of the big boys come calling...

The time to build the ark is before the rains...belief without evidence, so to speak.