The Last Dance

[Alsacs]

It's just a totally different game. Shaq would get all the bigs in foul trouble, but how are you guarding KD, Steph, and Klay? I would argue Durant is just as unguardable as Shaq (though maybe without the foul issue). Is Shaq guarding Draymond when he screens for Steph?



That first series in 2015 was so weird. I really think the main reason no one points out the latter is because once Bogut was hurt (was he hurt? Or just benched?) and the Warriors went more death lineup it got a lot more lopsided.

Fisher on Steph.
Kobe on Klay
Devean George/Horry combo on Durant.

I think that Lakers team could and would beat those Warriors.
Kobe and Shaq are both top 10-15 players all-time.

I don’t think Steph is a good enough defender to be that high. Durant is in that neighborhood.

 

[MikeSU02]

Fisher on Steph.
Kobe on Klay
Devean George/Horry combo on Durant.

I think that Lakers team could and would beat those Warriors.
Kobe and Shaq are both top 10-15 players all-time.

I don’t think Steph is a good enough defender to be that high. Durant is in that neighborhood.

They would put Shaq into every pick and roll action and roast him.

Shaq May score fifty, but the Dubs would put up 130 a game.

Durant is the best pure scorer in nba history. Steph is the best three point shooter in nba history. Klay is arguably a top five three point shooter in nba history.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Fisher on Steph.
Kobe on Klay
Devean George/Horry combo on Durant.

I think that Lakers team could and would beat those Warriors.
Kobe and Shaq are both top 10-15 players all-time.

I don’t think Steph is a good enough defender to be that high. Durant is in that neighborhood.

Listen I will admit I am a Kobe hater, but if you look at Curry and Kobe’s defensive stats and advanced metrics the numbers actually favor Curry.

 

[Alsacs]

They would put Shaq into every pick and roll action and roast him.

Shaq May score fifty, but the Dubs would put up 130 a game.

Durant is the best pure scorer in nba history. Steph is the best three point shooter in nba history. Klay is arguably a top five three point shooter in nba history.

Or they would just let Shaq paint his ass in the paint and let Draymond have all those jumpers off a pick and roll.
An in shape Shaq would be fine.
I don’t think these Warriors are the best team alltime. They are the best of modern basketball.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Those Laker teams won titles in 3 of the worst offensive season in NBA history. Overall efg% was .5 points lower than it is now and the league averaged 6-7 points less per 100 possessions than it does now.

I actually think the 2009 and 2010 Lakers were better than the teams they had earlier that decade.

 

[MikeSU02]

Or they would just let Shaq paint his ass in the paint and let Draymond have all those jumpers off a pick and roll.
An in shape Shaq would be fine.
I don’t think these Warriors are the best team alltime. They are the best of modern basketball.

I mean this honestly, if I were starting a team from scratch, I’d pick both KD or Curry over Kobe or Shaq.

I’ll die on Curry being one of the most underrated nba players of all time (even tho espn ranked him really high) like I do with Pippen.

Those Lakers team weren’t all time teams, imo.

 

[Alsacs]

Listen I will admit I am a Kobe hater, but if you look at Curry and Kobe’s defensive stats and advanced metrics the numbers actually favor Curry.

Kobe was first or second team all-defense every year from 2000 to 2012.
9 times first team, 3 times second team.

Steph is not a good defender. Kyrie offense against him was part of the reason the Cavs came back against th in 2016.

 

[Alsacs]

I mean this honestly, if I were starting a team from scratch, I’d pick both KD or Curry over Kobe or Shaq.

I’ll die on Curry being one of the most underrated nba players of all time (even tho espn ranked him really high) like I do with Pippen.

Those Lakers team weren’t all time teams, imo.

I am not as high on Steph over Shaq or Kobe.
D
KD I totally get.
Steph is the best shooter of alltime.
He defense is not good.
KD is just the perfect offense weapon and his defense is underrated.

Klay Thompson being such a perfect fit for the SG slot next to him helps him IMO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Kobe was first or second team all-defense every year from 2000 to 2012.
9 times first team, 3 times second team.

Steph is not a good defender. Kyrie offense against him was part of the reason the Cavs came back against th in 2016.

I don’t care about awards. I’m telling you he is overrated based on the stats and reputation. These narratives stick so people just assume Kobe was a good defender and he was not. There’s also the fact Curry was hurt that series, not an excuse just saying. And if we want to talk about terrible finals performances you should remember how Kobe played against the Celtics in 2008. He was terrible.

 

[Horn88]

Shaq and Kobe beat these Warriors teams.
An in his prime Shaquille O’Neal would score 50 points if he was guarded by Draymond Green primarily.
Kobe-Horry-Fisher is enough 3 point shooting to put around Shaq.

2000 Lakers had Glen Rice.
2001 Lakers had Horace Grant
2002 Lakers had developed Devean George/

The Warriors are a great team but teams in the early 2000s faced tougher defense because of the rules.

Shaq would have eaten this team alive and they would have shoot well to beat the Lakers.
Kobe and Fisher vs. Klay and Steph
Horry and pick your forward vs. Durant and Iguadola

Shaq vs. Draymond. Green would foul out in 20 minutes if he had to play Shaq primarily.

Shaq would score at will but I think Warriors would be OK with the idea of running ~20 fouls at Shaq and giving up 1 or 2 points with the idea that Steph/Klay/Durant would make plenty of 3’s to come out ahead.

And your position group match ups for guards we’ll say Steph and Kobe X each other out and then there’s a huge gap between Klay and Fisher. And the gap with Horry and a grab bag of wings against KEVIN DURANT and Iggy is pretty huge. Bigs Shaq would dominate of course but again that’s only 1-2 points as opposed to the damage the Warriors could do from 3.

 

[Horn88]

Or they would just let Shaq paint his ass in the paint and let Draymond have all those jumpers off a pick and roll.
An in shape Shaq would be fine.
I don’t think these Warriors are the best team alltime. They are the best of modern basketball.

I think setting ball screens for Steph and KD with the screeners defender hanging out in the paint to let those guys just pull up uncontested is probably best case scenario for the Warriors.

Edit: I do think though that Shaq would be a lot better defending the pick and roll than people might assume. His quickness and feet for someone his size was a big part of what made him so dominant.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah this didn’t motivate MJ.

 

[samspann1]

Sure, Mike.

 

[Knicks411]

Or they would just let Shaq paint his ass in the paint and let Draymond have all those jumpers off a pick and roll.
An in shape Shaq would be fine.
I don’t think these Warriors are the best team alltime. They are the best of modern basketball.

If you do that then I think Steph is getting a million open 3 pointers a game.

I think setting ball screens for Steph and KD with the screeners defender hanging out in the paint to let those guys just pull up uncontested is probably best case scenario for the Warriors.

Edit: I do think though that Shaq would be a lot better defending the pick and roll than people might assume. His quickness and feet for someone his size was a big part of what made him so dominant.

Shaq had good feet and was really quick for a guy his size, but

A) His size is still huge, he's not fast compared to guards
B) "his size" was always an issue; is this slimmed down Shaq, playing into shape Shaq, etc
C) the quick feet etc help you in the post, but he's out on the 3 point line trying to contain Steph Curry, just, LOL.

I agree, if you are dropping Shaq into the paint on the pick and roll then Steph is getting open looks at 3's all day. There's a reason teams need to trap it and give Draymond the 4 on 3. The alternative is getting roasted on 3's.

 

[Horn88]

If you do that then I think Steph is getting a million open 3 pointers a game.



Shaq had good feet and was really quick for a guy his size, but

A) His size is still huge, he's not fast compared to guards
B) "his size" was always an issue; is this slimmed down Shaq, playing into shape Shaq, etc
C) the quick feet etc help you in the post, but he's out on the 3 point line trying to contain Steph Curry, just, LOL.

I agree, if you are dropping Shaq into the paint on the pick and roll then Steph is getting open looks at 3's all day. There's a reason teams need to trap it and give Draymond the 4 on 3. The alternative is getting roasted on 3's.

I was assuming this was in shape Shaq. “Already won a few rings so I have better ways to spend my free time” Shaq isn’t standing a chance out there.

I agree with you but thought his sheer size and feet that he could be disruptive and atleast hedge and recover back while the on ball defender was fighting over the top.

Curious on your thoughts, in a hypothetical 96-98 Bulls and Durant Warriors series how do you think Bulls would’ve matched up? The small ball Jordan/Pip/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper against KD/Steph/Klay/Iggy/Dray line up would be so much fun to watch. Would Rodman be able to guard KD and would Scottie be able to stick with Steph? Or Jordan on Steph, Scottie on KD and then tell Harper/Kukoc to chase Klay around screens while Rodman was the screen defender on Draymond?

 

[Knicks411]

I was assuming this was in shape Shaq. “Already won a few rings so I have better ways to spend my free time” Shaq isn’t standing a chance out there.

I agree with you but thought his sheer size and feet that he could be disruptive and atleast hedge and recover back while the on ball defender was fighting over the top.

Curious on your thoughts, in a hypothetical 96-98 Bulls and Durant Warriors series how do you think Bulls would’ve matched up? The small ball Jordan/Pip/Rodman/Kukoc/Harper against KD/Steph/Klay/Iggy/Dray line up would be so much fun to watch. Would Rodman be able to guard KD and would Scottie be able to stick with Steph? Or Jordan on Steph, Scottie on KD and then tell Harper/Kukoc to chase Klay around screens while Rodman was the screen defender on Draymond?

Zach Lowe made the point when the Last dance first premiered that in some ways the Bulls were one of the first teams to play a smaller type lineup; if they are playing the Warriors you have to think they basically anchor their big guys to the bench. Their best 5 man lineup is probably Harper/Jordan/Steph/Rodman/Kukoc.

Those are some really interesting defensive matchups; my first instinct would be to put Rodman on Durant. I could totally see Rodman doing something to get into Durant's head. Plus I think it works better for the Bulls with that matchup. For Chicago, I do like the idea of putting the length of Pippen on Steph to try and bother him.

Ideally, you would try and give Michael the easier defensive option (Iggy? As opposed to running around with Klay off screens) but then again, Jordan would probably demand to check someone better than that, either Klay or Steph.

A bunch of fascinating matchups really. Steph would be an outlier, there's really no one else like sized to him (unless the Bulls are going to the bench and bringing in Kerr). And then you have a ton of wing type guys with similar size between Jordan, Klay, Harper, Durant, Rodman, Pippen, Green; I could see really any combination of those guys guarding each other.

My gut would say to me the Bulls would start with Rodman guarding Durant, but when you get to crunch time, Pippen would move to Durant and Jordan would take Steph.

 

[Horn88]

Zach Lowe made the point when the Last dance first premiered that in some ways the Bulls were one of the first teams to play a smaller type lineup; if they are playing the Warriors you have to think they basically anchor their big guys to the bench. Their best 5 man lineup is probably Harper/Jordan/Steph/Rodman/Kukoc.

Those are some really interesting defensive matchups; my first instinct would be to put Rodman on Durant. I could totally see Rodman doing something to get into Durant's head. Plus I think it works better for the Bulls with that matchup. For Chicago, I do like the idea of putting the length of Pippen on Steph to try and bother him.

Ideally, you would try and give Michael the easier defensive option (Iggy? As opposed to running around with Klay off screens) but then again, Jordan would probably demand to check someone better than that, either Klay or Steph.

A bunch of fascinating matchups really. Steph would be an outlier, there's really no one else like sized to him (unless the Bulls are going to the bench and bringing in Kerr). And then you have a ton of wing type guys with similar size between Jordan, Klay, Harper, Durant, Rodman, Pippen, Green; I could see really any combination of those guys guarding each other.

My gut would say to me the Bulls would start with Rodman guarding Durant, but when you get to crunch time, Pippen would move to Durant and Jordan would take Steph.

I’d love to see Rodman against Durant. I don’t know if Rodman would have the lateral quickness but he’d definitely have the size, length, physicality, and motor that could cause a lot of problems. I think the same thing too about once it gets into crunch time you’d see a floor full of wolves like that start to go after each other.

On the other end I feel like Steph would be a liability being so much smaller than everyone on the Bulls. I think you’d have to put him on Harper and if I’m Chicago I just run my offense with Harper on the bottom third of the floor and then tell him crash the glass on every shot attempt and see if Steph can keep him from getting some extra possessions and wear Steph down a little. Klay on Jordan, Green on Rodman to keep him off the glass, Iggy on Pippen, Durant on Kukoc all are match ups you can live with if you’re GSW.

 

[Knicks411]

I’d love to see Rodman against Durant. I don’t know if Rodman would have the lateral quickness but he’d definitely have the size, length, physicality, and motor that could cause a lot of problems. I think the same thing too about once it gets into crunch time you’d see a floor full of wolves like that start to go after each other.

On the other end I feel like Steph would be a liability being so much smaller than everyone on the Bulls. I think you’d have to put him on Harper and if I’m Chicago I just run my offense with Harper on the bottom third of the floor and then tell him crash the glass on every shot attempt and see if Steph can keep him from getting some extra possessions and wear Steph down a little. Klay on Jordan, Green on Rodman to keep him off the glass, Iggy on Pippen, Durant on Kukoc all are match ups you can live with if you’re GSW.

Like I said, Steph is definitely the outlier, size wise. I agree, you have to stick him on Harper. The counterpoint to that would be if you crash the offensive boards too hard (since you know Rodman is going to be doing that as well) the Warriors could hurt your in transition.

From a pure matchups standpoint, it's one of the more fascinating between teams from different eras. In a lot of cases, you end up with two totally different types of teams, but there are a lot of similarities between the two

 

[jordville]

Thankful ESPN moved this series up as it has made my Sunday night for the past month! I'm excited for finale night tonight, but I'll be sad to see it go. (It'll stay saved on my DVR.)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeDW]

That Jordan/Bird interaction after the 98 ECF had me rolling.

 

[two3zone]

I really wish Shaq stayed in Orlando.
I wonder what happens.
Him leaving the East gave the Bulls 2 more East titles, and when Kobe matured they were unstoppable.

Hakeem is underrated for sure. I mean he beat Shaq in the Finals.
It’s crazy how the players of the 1980s except for Magic and Isiah Thomas all stayed atleast 3 years in college.

Magic and Isiah only played 2 years in college.

Hakeem’s the better all-around center but the argument was Shaq was just unstoppable when motivated.

The Kings stopped them, unfortunately the referees decided they wouldn't allow that.

 

[MSOrange]

Poll: 73% of fans say Jordan better than LeBron

Michael Jordan or LeBron James? For NBA fans, the debate over the better NBA player will never end -- but at the moment, MJ clearly has more fans in his corner.

www.espn.com

 

[Alsacs]

Poll: 73% of fans say Jordan better than LeBron

Michael Jordan or LeBron James? For NBA fans, the debate over the better NBA player will never end -- but at the moment, MJ clearly has more fans in his corner.

www.espn.com

That is too low.

The Bird-MJ scene at the game 7 was worth another 5%.

That scene was amazing and a top 10 player knew to take that and not be upset.

Jordan’s GOAT is confirmed and LeBron isn’t even close. He is a top 5 player alltime hell you can say 2nd alltime but isn’t even close to Jordan.

It’s kinda telling Jordan okayed this documentary after LeBron beat the Warriors. He doesn’t care for LeBron like he did Kobe.

 

[samspann1]

Poll: 73% of fans say Jordan better than LeBron

Michael Jordan or LeBron James? For NBA fans, the debate over the better NBA player will never end -- but at the moment, MJ clearly has more fans in his corner.

www.espn.com

Given that 62% of fans think that Jordan had a more positive off-court impact than James does, it's hard to take this poll very seriously. I mean, Jordan may very well be the GOAT, but off the court...seriously? Dude was a degenerate gambler. And James has done, and continues to do, a ton for others.

As far as the Jordan/Bird scene, I'd love to see Jordan try to coach. Given his disastrous stint as GM with the Wizards, he really should just shut up and dribble.